1 (edited by ignaciogomezgutierrez 2024-07-11 15:42:45)

Topic: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

Hi
I have a nice Babyface pro FS (latest version of drivers (driverkit)  and firmware, macOS sonoma, Logic pro 11.0.1) connected to a M1 macbook Air.
I am experiencing a lot of issues: overload warnings with simple projects, MID SYNC drops, crackes and not fluent playing back.
I tried to fine tune Logic, increasing buffer size,and assigning all cores to logic.
It helps for some seconds but then meters start to build up like crazy and I suddently get the overload pop up messsage.
Surpringsinly, all those issues dissappear if I disconnect the babyface from the computer and use mac's headphone output. 
I used to have a midi keyboard connected to a hub alongside with the babyface but ended up giving the babyface its own mac port.
I searched around the forum and learnt that these issues happen to some other users from time to time, but have not been able to figure out the solution.
Thanks!

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

Any idea/ suggestion?

Thanks!

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

I have similiar issues using my BF Pro on M1 Max - Sonomoa 14.6.1 - with firmware 320 and driver v4.1.4 - but using Ableton. CPU is continually spiking and creating pops and stutters. This affects also Youtube and Spotify.

If I switch to the macbook pro internal audio there are no problems and also CPU usage drops form around 32%(+ spikes every 5-10s) to 22% (and no spikes) in a medium/large project

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

The difference might be that BF Pro has more channels to handle, comparing to internal audio. BF Pro has 4/4 analogs and 8/8 ADAT digitals. That is several times more comparing to internal audio.

And look at current thread about Logic and FF UCX II. There are two hints by MC.

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

Kubrak wrote:

The difference might be that BF Pro has more channels to handle, comparing to internal audio. BF Pro has 4/4 analogs and 8/8 ADAT digitals. That is several times more comparing to internal audio.

And look at current thread about Logic and FF UCX II. There are two hints by MC.


I have checked it out. I will have to have a test next week when I'm back at my main desk with a UFX III. If the same session (on same laptop) behaves differently.

6 (edited by kd 2024-09-01 01:10:40)

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

ignaciogomezgutierrez wrote:

Any idea/ suggestion?

Thanks!


Apple you also have to consider that the throughput of RAM, cache etc. is much lower on the cheaper devices like AIR, because often only half the data throughput.
Air M1 I can't even record micro properly, goes well for a few seconds and then stutters.
Definitely hardware too weak .  You could try reducing the recording bit depth to 16.
M3 Pro works great, but M1 Air, the hardware is too weak.

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

kd wrote:
ignaciogomezgutierrez wrote:

Any idea/ suggestion?

Thanks!


Apple you also have to consider that the throughput of RAM, cache etc. is much lower on the cheaper devices like AIR, because often only half the data throughput.
Air M1 I can't even record micro properly, goes well for a few seconds and then stutters.
Definitely hardware too weak .  You could try reducing the recording bit depth to 16.
M3 Pro works great, but M1 Air, the hardware is too weak.

No sorry, definitely not. Things like 24bit multitrack recording, usage of midi equipment, virtual instruments, mix of midi and audio tracks in a DAW, effect plugins and so on … are possible since many years. I still have such Logic projects created on a 2002 Powerbook G4 (867MHz with 1GB RAM) in combination with different firewire interfaces (also RME Fireface 400 with additional 8ch ADAT preamps). Today’s hardware can do this with ease!

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

yeshuah wrote:
Kubrak wrote:

The difference might be that BF Pro has more channels to handle, comparing to internal audio. BF Pro has 4/4 analogs and 8/8 ADAT digitals. That is several times more comparing to internal audio.

And look at current thread about Logic and FF UCX II. There are two hints by MC.


I have checked it out. I will have to have a test next week when I'm back at my main desk with a UFX III. If the same session (on same laptop) behaves differently.

I managed to check now on my UFX III and have simliar problems. Limiting the channel count to 8 in the Fireface USB settings seems to help a bit. Still very dissapointing to have these kind of issues (regardlesss of the issue being with the OS or RME)

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

You missed the point. Using UFX III should give you worse results, than using BF Pro, if the cause is the count of channels interface has. But you have to use UFX III in USB2 mode, not USB3.

But either way, the core of your problem will most probably be either in computer setup, plugins used, or like....

10 (edited by yeshuah 2024-09-03 21:32:59)

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

Kubrak wrote:

You missed the point. Using UFX III should give you worse results, than using BF Pro, if the cause is the count of channels interface has. But you have to use UFX III in USB2 mode, not USB3.

But either way, the core of your problem will most probably be either in computer setup, plugins used, or like....

Yes, I was just confirming that it wasn't isolated to the Babyface.

And the whole point of having a UFX III (or even just a Babyface using ADAT) is to utilize the available channels - so it's not really a proper solution to reduce the channel count artificially.

In the current project I have 26 tracks. I rendered them all and imported into a new Ableton project and they play with no cpu spikes. So indicates even more some plugin issue. Going through there is no one plugin that is creating the issue.

As mentioned before when running directly on the bult in audio of the macbook pro then there are a lot less issues. So some combination of too many heavy plugins and reduced performance when using the external interface

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

You cannot reduce amount of channels, IMHO. Maybe you can limit the number of channels that are seen in SW. (At least it is so on Win).

Yes, you may run on very limit what your computer may handle, if using internal audio. Adding just few channels may be just too much for reliable work.

If you have full glass, just few drops make it overflow.....

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

Hi! update
I installed driver version 4.14 and things seem to have improved a lot. Not sure if it has to do with it.
The M1 mac is capable for everything, mine has 16 gb of ram and performs every task smoothly, even video.
It seems (as it doesn't have fans) to be sensible to high temps. I do not think it throttles but I can notice lower performace on hot summer days in spain if I am using it in a not conditioned room. But I do not think this has to do with the problems I was refering to in this thread.

13 (edited by ignaciogomezgutierrez 2024-09-05 09:31:27)

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

This computer is 100% dedicated to audio recording/mixing, has lot of spare internal HD space, and I have a tb4 ssd drive that holds logic library and samples. So I'd say it's a very clean setup.
With regards to plugins, yes, old plugins and heavy load mastering ones do increase processors % but only if I set the oversampling up to 32x, again, the computer is capable enough for audio.
I have also noticed that from time to time, Arturia synths causes the quick peak to overlao ramdomly.
I will post if the driver update was the solution!

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

Kubrak wrote:

You cannot reduce amount of channels, IMHO. Maybe you can limit the number of channels that are seen in SW. (At least it is so on Win).

Yes, you may run on very limit what your computer may handle, if using internal audio. Adding just few channels may be just too much for reliable work.

If you have full glass, just few drops make it overflow.....

This is a fully loaded M1 Max which handles everything else without problem. The problem is def not resources but bad interactions between OSX audio subsystem and the RME drivers. Even with no plugins loaded and no tracks I can have skipping audio from the audio interface with both Ableton and Youtube or Spotify open.

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

Did you update the drivers ?
RME published new driver 4.16 last week...

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

A M1 should easily handle everything, in general.
Regardless if it’s an MB Air or MB Pro or whatever.

What i can say from own experience - check the USB connection:
- Try without any docking stations/converters/hubs etc first. Plug the unit directly to it’s own usb/tb port on the mac.
- Make sure the usb cable is 100% ok .
- Look in the Control App if you see any CRC Errors while you have dropouts.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

maggie33 wrote:

A M1 should easily handle everything, in general.
Regardless if it’s an MB Air or MB Pro or whatever.

What i can say from own experience - check the USB connection:
- Try without any docking stations/converters/hubs etc first. Plug the unit directly to it’s own usb/tb port on the mac.
- Make sure the usb cable is 100% ok .
- Look in the Control App if you see any CRC Errors while you have dropouts.

Which control app?

18

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

Settings dialog.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

Thanks MC.
I have to correct myself, too: I am not sure, if the CRC Errors are shown in the Settings Dialog/App for BF Pro FS.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

20

Re: BabyFace pro FS issues (overloads, MIDI sync, pops.) With Logic Pro...

On Mac USB errors are only shown for USB 3 devices, so no.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME