1 (edited by panu 2010-09-18 00:53:48)

Topic: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

OK, I could not get WDM rocking and I'm back to ASIO. Here's one of the reasons why I wanted to try WDM.  I have seen this behaviour many times in my current setup. It starts randomly when I'm doing multitrack recording with 2 FF800 units.

Units are in 'sync' but for some reason tracks with input channel from unit 2 come to Sonar a lot EARLIER than unit 1 tracks.  Difference is approximately 5000 samples.

Audio Options - Advanced:
Driver Mode: ASIO
Dithering: None
[ ] Share Drivers
[ ] Use MultiProcessing (no effect)
[ ] Use MMCSS
[x] Always Open All Devices
[ ] Remove DC Offset

Manual Offset: 0    [x] Use ASIO Reported Latency: 557

--------

Timur, Jeff, MC? I really need your help...


EDIT: Images removed to save space

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Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

When that happens: what happens if you switch the "Record Latency Adjustment" master in Sonar's Advanced AUDIO preferences? And what happens if you change the manual offset (does it affect both or only one unit)?

Since WDM did not work so good for you, you could also try WASAPI.

Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

Two units normally get out of sync when there was a dropout.
This is because each unit loses probably a different amount of firewire frames.
The error counter shown in the settings dialog counts up in that case.

Another reason is than you have connected the units on different controllers.
The controllers are not in sync. They have a frame counter which restarts each time when the driver of the controller is loaded.
Because the two drivers are not loaded at the same time, the frame counter is out of sync. Also the two firewire busses uses different oscillating crystals, so they are drifting apart.

/Uwe

Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

Thanks for all advice. I really appreciate.

uwekirst wrote:

Two units normally get out of sync when there was a dropout.
This is because each unit loses probably a different amount of firewire frames.
The error counter shown in the settings dialog counts up in that case.

Error count has been 0 during this issue. 

uwekirst wrote:

Another reason is than you have connected the units on different controllers.
The controllers are not in sync. They have a frame counter which restarts each time when the driver of the controller is loaded.
Because the two drivers are not loaded at the same time, the frame counter is out of sync. Also the two firewire busses uses different oscillating crystals, so they are drifting apart.
/Uwe

Not drifting - units are connected to the same Firewire 400/800 card. 
But after sync error playback was not working right; it sounded like there was handbrake on as the sound was s-l-o-w.  Soon after that playback halted completely and I had to turn off FF units.

Do you think this is primarily Firewire card/driver issue?

-Panu

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Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

Timur wrote:

When that happens: what happens if you switch the "Record Latency Adjustment" master in Sonar's Advanced AUDIO preferences? And what happens if you change the manual offset (does it affect both or only one unit)?

I tried to change latency manually. It affected both units.
Seems like audio data is off-sync before it reaches Sonar.

-Panu

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Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

My Firewire card is Sunix Firewire 400/800 2 x Beta, 2 x 6-pin

http://www.verkkokauppa.com/files/images/23/2_76058-300x198.jpeg

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7

Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

What FireWire chip is used on that one?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

I don't know.
I go buy a different card now but I'm afraid there are no TI equipped cards in this little village they call our capital.
I'll be back in few hours with new tests.

-Panu

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Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

MC wrote:

What FireWire chip is used on that one?

Card: Sunix FWB3414G ver 2.1

Text in the chip:

LSI
L-FW643E-1-BP
17933171
0B47T

-Panu

sonarmods.com

Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

I've got new hope.

I replaced Sunix with TI based Belkin 1394a card.
Playback seems to be flawless now.  I make recording tests after coffee break.

Old wiring: Unit2 ----FW800 cable---> Unit1 -----FW800 cable----> Sunix 1394b

New:
Unit1 ---FW400 cable----> Belkin
Unit2 ---FW400 cable----> Belkin

One more thing: when I updated Fireface drivers I noticed that in Device Manager there can be different driver versions for each unit. Is it really possible? Fireface Settings tab shows either driver version of unit 1 or the newest driver only.

sonarmods.com

11

Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

You seem to have the famous LSI Agere chip, but already revision 7. While this is known to work with one Fireface, I am pretty sure nobody ever tested it with two...

Using two units on FW 400 might not fully work, see manual.

The driver revision in the Device Manager is only shown correctly for the updated device. The other one uses the same driver, but shows the old registry information.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

I've seen warnings about Agere but I did not realize it was LSI.


Note to multiple Fireface 800 unit users:

Sunix Firewire 800 PCI-E card has problems with two Fireface 800 units. Halting, audio stuttering, lost connection to audio driver, long waiting times to arm a track, no sound during playback and synchronization problems. 

LSI Agere chip does not work well with multiple Fireface units.



---
keywords: LSI Agere FW800 Firewire 800 Fireface FF800 2xFF800 problem incompatible

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Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

I just had a Sunix FW800 (LSI/Agere based) ExpressCard for testing and it only worked if I first inserted it, then pressed again to remove it but kept on pressing it in (obviously some contact problem).

So it may not necessarily be a LSI/Agere specific problem, but a problem of questionable build quality on Sunix' part.

Are there no Macbook/Bootcamp users here who use two FF800 on the internal FW port (which also is LSI/Agere based)? If it works there then you know it's a Sunix problem, not a chipset problem.

Re: W7, Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit + 2xFF800 (3.020) - Recorded tracks not in sync

I installed a new TI chipset FW800 card today. So far it has been smooth and transparent with two FF800 units.
Promising. Very promising now.

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