1 Topic by U2GT (edited by U2GT 2016-01-18 06:44:35)

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Topic: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

I'm trying to send Mic 1 input to both the left and right side of the computer out (out 7 and 8).  Is this not possible?

I have a mic for recording my voice in Mic 1 (or MIc 2).  I have my guitar effects processor going into the SPIDIF input in the back.  It's stereo and it works perfectly going to USB in stereo. The SPIDIF guitar also is in stereo to my headphones.  But Mic 1 is only on the left.  And Mic 2 only goes to the right. I've tried panning, stereo and all sorts of things and nothing seems to work.  I assume it's possible and I'm just doing something wrong.

In other words, in the matrix outputs 7/8 are green (at 0 db) for left and right side.  I hear the mic 1 and 2 inputs go to both sides of my headphones (monitor 7 and 8).  I hear my guitar from the SPIDIF input on both sides of my headphones.

But when I record to computer, the guitar is in stereo (Logic inputs 1/2 for example), but only the right side of the mic is recorded if the mic is plugged into Mic 2 and only the left side is recorded if plugged into Mic 1.  But both mics go to both sides of my headphones.  Why is my computer not recording Mic 1 or Mic 2 on both L/R of the computer USB output?  Any thoughts here?  Thanks!

Thx!

2 Reply by MC

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

To be able to do this in the Matrix you have to go into the Mixer view and set the mic input to a Mono channel (via the wrench tool).

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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3 Reply by U2GT (edited by U2GT 2016-01-18 15:29:56)

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

Thank you, MC.  But I'm not following this.  I have Mic 1 and Mic 2 set to "mono," or in other words, the "stereo" button is NOT selected.

Someone on the RME Youtube comments says I have to create a stereo track in Logic, but I'm not using Logic.  I'm using Screenflow and don't know if that's possible.  It just records the computer's stereo signal.  The SPIDIF input is going to both sides of the computer output and Screenflow works.  Both Mic 1 and Mic 2 independently go to both sides of my headphones.  It's just the computer output that isn't working for either mic input.  And I have green boxes under output 7 and 8 for both Mic 1 and Mic 2.  When I plug the mic into Mic 1 it only goes left and if I move it to Mic 2 it only goes right even though I have green zero gain boxes on for that routing.

In other words, Mic 1 in the matrix connects to both output 7 and 8.  But it only goes to 7 when recording to Screenflow.  If I move mic to Mic 2, it only goes to output 8 when recording to Screenflow. 

I just created a stereo track in Logic.  Same thing happens.  Matrix shows Mic 1 (or Mic 2) with stereo button off (so mono) should go to both output 7 and 8 (0db in  two green boxes).  But in Logic Mic 1 goes only to the left channel of the stereo track, and when I move the mic to Mic 2 it goes only to the right side of the stereo track.

The Fireface will not send either Mic 1 or Mic 2 to both the left and right outputs.  But it does for the headphone monitor.

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

Here is a screenshot of my TotalMix setup:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jscnrfmeu6jc8 … .55+AM.png

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

Of course each channel will be recorded individually, everything else would make no sense - how could you record stereo otherwise? The advice to create a stereo track in Logic is incorrect. Record to a mono track and pan that to center in the Logic mixer...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

6 Reply by U2GT (edited by U2GT 2016-01-18 19:34:09)

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

RME Support wrote:

Of course each channel will be recorded individually, everything else would make no sense - how could you record stereo otherwise? The advice to create a stereo track in Logic is incorrect. Record to a mono track and pan that to center in the Logic mixer...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Thank you, Daniel.  But let me clarify.  I want to record a mic (narration) from Mic 1 (or Mic 2) and send it to both the left and right side in Logic or Screenflow.  I agree with your approach, but let me explain a nuance that is not working.

I created a mono Logic track.  I select Input 1 as the input audio for this track.  It works because it's only one input and a mono track.  But I want the Fireface to send the exact same signal to Input 2 in Logic.  When I select input 2 in Logic I get nothing.  But Matrix says that Mic 1 should be sending the signal to both sides (Main or Ch 7/8).  I assume Main sends the signal to Logic 1 and 2 inputs.

So in Logic, if the mic is hooked up to Mic 1, I have to choose Input 1 in Logic to hear the signal.  I can't hear anything on Input 2.  If I move the mic to Mic 2, then I have to select Input 2 in Logic to get a signal.   I want the Fireface to send the signal to both Input 1 and Input 2 in Logic.

Why?

The reason I need this to work is because Screenflow doesn't have the same flexibility as Logic.  Screenflow just records what it gets from the computer which is hooked by USB to my Fireface.  When I hook up the mic to Mic 1, Screenflow has the mic only on the left side.  When I hook up the mic to Mic 2, Screenflow records the mic only on the right side.

I need the Fireface to take Mic 1 and send them to both sides.  Isn't that what the Matrix does?  I selected both L/R or Ch 7/8 on the Main for Mic 1.  Why doesn't it send the signal to both outputs?

Also, why do I hear the Mic 1 in both sides of my headphones?  Shouldn't I be hearing what is going out the USB cable?  That's what so confusing!  It's combined in left and right for the Main headphones but not the USB output.

Thx again!

7 Reply by U2GT (edited by U2GT 2016-01-18 19:40:22)

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

And BTW, when I send the Mic 1 to the analog outputs in Matrix (say Out 3 and Out 4), it sends the one mono mic input to both outputs!  So why won't it do that for the USB to the computer?

Note the first row in my screenshot.  See mic 1?  I have it set to go out to Main (both Ch 7/8).  Maybe the problem is that 7/8 is only the headphones?  I assumed that Main is also the L and R out the USB cable to the computer.  What I hear in the headphones is what should be recorded directly from the USB if it's a stereo recording, no?  Screen flow is picking up both the L and R from the SPIDIF input, but not my mic.

I would like the Fireface to send the mic input to both the L and R output of the USB cable so that ANY program recording the computer audio will pick up this mono mic on both the left and right side.  I would like the Fireface to basically do the routing and not assume I have software that will take the mono signal and turn it into stereo.

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

U2GT wrote:

I would like the Fireface to send the mic input to both the L and R output of the USB cable so that ANY program recording the computer audio will pick up this mono mic on both the left and right side.  I would like the Fireface to basically do the routing and not assume I have software that will take the mono signal and turn it into stereo.

This approach simply does not work. Neither will the Fireface "send" anything as far as recording is concerned, nor is there suc a thing as a "L and R output of the USB cable".

Logic or any other audio software pick up the signal directly at the input, Totalmix is not involved. You will need to use the approach I outlined, there is no immediate alternative as such.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

9 Reply by U2GT (edited by U2GT 2016-01-18 20:32:34)

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

RME Support wrote:
U2GT wrote:

I would like the Fireface to send the mic input to both the L and R output of the USB cable so that ANY program recording the computer audio will pick up this mono mic on both the left and right side.  I would like the Fireface to basically do the routing and not assume I have software that will take the mono signal and turn it into stereo.

This approach simply does not work. Neither will the Fireface "send" anything as far as recording is concerned, nor is there suc a thing as a "L and R output of the USB cable".

Logic or any other audio software pick up the signal directly at the input, Totalmix is not involved. You will need to use the approach I outlined, there is no immediate alternative as such.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Ok.  Then what is happening when I hear the mono mic on both the L and R of the headphones (plugged into the front of the Fireface)?  It's deceiving.  I should only be hearing the left side if it's plugged into Mic 1 and the right side if plugged into Mic 2.  I get both for both mic inputs.

I'm seeing it right now in TotalMix.  Mic 1 is mono and there are two green level bars on the Main slider, each of which is the signal from Mic 2.  So the Fireface is taking a mono track and sending them to both sides of the headphones.  Why it can't send that out the USB doesn't make sense. 

I can get the Mic 1 to send to Out 3 and Out 4 at the same time.  And I can get SPIDIF to send it's stereo signal (L and R at the same time) out the USB.  it's odd and can be confusing from a monitoring standpoint.  What I hear from headphones is not what goes out the USB.

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

I just did a second test.  Mic in at Mic 2 input.  Same settings as in my Matrix pic above.  I connected Out 3 and 4 to my video camera and plugged in my headphones into the video camera.  I hear mic on both the left and the right side.  So the Fireface is sending the Mic 1 mono signal to both Out 3 and Out 4 as the two green boxes in the Matrix view designate.  When I plug the headphones into the Fireface, I hear the same thing.  Mic in both ears. 

So why would two green boxes on the Matrix send the mono signal to Out 3 and 4, but not send two separate mono signals to the Main Out 7 and Out 8? 

Is Mic 1 and Mic 2 linked to both the left and right channel of the headphone out, but not to the left and right output through the USB cable. 

The Matrix clearly shows that the signal is going to Out 3 and 4 and I can confirm it.  The green boxes on the mic rows are confusing because it says it should be sending two separate signals to Ch 7/8.  But only Mic 1 goes to Out 7 and Mic 2 goes to Out 8 for purposes of the USB to the computer.

Only explanation I can come up with is Ch 7/8 is only the headphones.  But then what is the output on the Matrix for the USB cable?

BTW, my SPIDIF input goes to Out 3 and 4 perfectly also (L and R).  But it also goes to the USB cable perfectly (L and R).

I'm just trying to understand the logic of the headphones and what the Matrix view is telling me.

11 Reply by MC

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

Before this gets more confusing - back to the start: TM FX dos not influence recording. It is a monitor mixer in hardware that sends whatever input or playback signal to the desired hardware outputs. Those hardware outputs are not seen by Screenflow or any other software - obviously. Only software playback is seen by them, if at all.

And Daniel is right, your approach of recording two channels for only one signal is basically wrong. If you still want to do that use the function 'Loopback', send your input signal to for example AN 1/2 out, hit Loopback, record one signal on two tracks on Analog 1/2. But beware of possible feedback and monitoring pitfalls in such a case.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

MC wrote:

Before this gets more confusing - back to the start: TM FX dos not influence recording. It is a monitor mixer in hardware that sends whatever input or playback signal to the desired hardware outputs. Those hardware outputs are not seen by Screenflow or any other software - obviously. Only software playback is seen by them, if at all.

And Daniel is right, your approach of recording two channels for only one signal is basically wrong. If you still want to do that use the function 'Loopback', send your input signal to for example AN 1/2 out, hit Loopback, record one signal on two tracks on Analog 1/2. But beware of possible feedback and monitoring pitfalls in such a case.

I sincerely thank you for your time here.  Please don't take this as me being difficult.  I do understand that what I'm looking to do is not possible. 

But this exercise has me trying to understand the relationship between the Matrix grid and the USB out to the computer.  If the hardware can send the mic signal to any hardware output on the Fireface (e.g., Mic 1 to Out 3 and Out 4), then why is the USB not treated like a L and R output?  I turned on Out 3 and Out 4 on the Matrix and it sends the Mic 1 signal to both.  It also sends the Mic 1 signal to Ch 7/8 (headphone out).

So my question is how/why is the USB cable any different?  What output column on the Matrix grid represents the USB cable?

That's what I'm trying to understand.  Is the USB signal the "Main" (ch 7/8) or not?  If it is, then the Matrix should never show a green box on Ch 8 for Mic 1 or a green box on Ch 7 for Mic 2.

I hope this clarifies what I'm trying to understand.  The green (turn on) Matrix blocks and how they relate to the USB output.

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

There is no such thing as a "USB output". USB is the data connection between the computer / the driver and the hardware. This is not an audio connection, it does not represent anything in the mixer or Matrix. It can be totally disregarded here.

If you send a signal in the matrix to two (monitoring) outputs, it is the same as moving the Pan control on an input to center. 

Again, this is totally independent from the recording process. Each channel will be (and has to be) recorded individually. If you want to hear a mono signal on both channels (which does not amount to making it "stereo"), you will have to pan that signal to center during playback (mixing) or during software monitoring (i.e. through the Logic mixer, not Totalmix).

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

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Re: Routing Question - Mic 1 In won't go to both sides of computer out

RME Support wrote:

There is no such thing as a "USB output". USB is the data connection between the computer / the driver and the hardware. This is not an audio connection, it does not represent anything in the mixer or Matrix. It can be totally disregarded here.

If you send a signal in the matrix to two (monitoring) outputs, it is the same as moving the Pan control on an input to center. 

Again, this is totally independent from the recording process. Each channel will be (and has to be) recorded individually. If you want to hear a mono signal on both channels (which does not amount to making it "stereo"), you will have to pan that signal to center during playback (mixing) or during software monitoring (i.e. through the Logic mixer, not Totalmix).

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

This is super helpful.  Thank you for your patience with me.  BTW, the loopback worked perfectly with no problems.