1 (edited by Jantex 2018-04-07 16:28:12)

Topic: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Hi, I have been succesfully using in the past few years my UAD Apollo 8P where I send my toslink SPDIF into a Hosa SPDIF to AES converter and then to my Genelecs.

Yesterday I bought RME ADI-2 Pro to replace Hosa converter and as well use its ADC and DAC to use it as well for my mastering analog chain. Today I am really struggling for it to work for my monitoring.

If I set the to DIg Through or AD/DC mode, with enabled SPDIF - optical, and SRC disabled, I can only get a normal signal when the sample rate is set to 88kHz and 192kHz, while I am getting weird noises at 44.1kHz and 48kHz (with these two sample rates the LED indicator on my Genelecs is still red which marks that they cannot decode the signal, but they produce some clicking noise). It doesn't matter whether I clock everything with ADI-2 Pro or with UAD Apollo it remains the same. While when set to 88kHz or 192kHz I can get a normal signal even when both interfaces are set to their internal clocks (but they must still have enabled the same sample rate)

The only way I can use lower sample rates now with ADI-2 Pro is if I enable the SRC and set it to SPDIF, then set my Apollo to 44.1 or 48kHz and set ADI independently to 88kHz or 192kHz. But I would really like to used both interfaces clocked and synchronised. And as it looks like ADI-2 Pro cannot synchronize with my Apollo with lower sample rates...but successfully with higher on the other way which doesn't make any logical sense to me.

Has anyone experienced this same issue? I have tried all possible options and have spend the whole, but simply cannot get Genelecs to accept AES signal from ADI-2 Pro with 44.1 and 48kHz. I would like to mention that I am absolutely familiar with ADI-2 Pro operation, have gone through the manual 2 times from start to end and never experienced any issue with my Genelecs before as they readily accepted any sample rate from 44.1 to 96kHz with AES converted from SPDIF from Hosa.

I also have the latest firmware. I am using 1m long toslink cables from Klotz that I have been using all the time now.

I would really like to use ADI-2 Pro but as it is now it is not usable in my case and will need to return it if I don't find a solution or answer why it this happening. Is it possible that I have a defective unit?

Thanks in advance for your help.

2

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Your description misses a few important things, especially regarding clocking: when you connect the UAD to the ADI input, change to the State Overview screen. Is the SPDIF signal shown correctly and in SYNC? Does the ADI follow the input's sample rate?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

3 (edited by Jantex 2018-04-07 18:41:44)

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Yes, the signal is shown correctly and the status is shown as Sync for SP op.

I have now for example clocking set to Auto (also could send it to SPDIF), so that Apollo is master clock. If I have sampe rate set at 96kHz and set it to 88kHz even during playback, everything works perfectly, once I set it to 48kHz and 44.1 Genelecs LED goes red and I started getting stuttered noises.

But yes, the status in the State Overview keeps changing correctly as I switch the sample rates and is clock supposedly always in sync according to the status in State Overview.

And the problem is obviously with digital output of RME ADI-2 Pro, because when I insert headphones into PH 3/4 they play perfectly, when the while Genelecs reject the AES with these lower sample rates.

4

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Instead of plugging the end of the AES cable into the Genelecs, plug it into the UAD to verify correct AES operation.

Edit: ok, no AES input. Did you try a different cable to the Genelecs?

I checked Dig Thru mode, it works as expected. Are you sure that you have only SPDIF In connected, not AES, SPDIF coax or USB as well?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

5 (edited by Jantex 2018-04-07 22:16:21)

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Yes, UAD has no AES input nor output, that's why I was using this Hosa digital converter - to convert SPDIF to AES for Genelecs. I thought to use ADI-2 Pro for the same reason with extra benefit of giving me hi-end AD-DA as well.

Yes, I have absolutely no other digital input apart from SPDIF optical-in. No AES, no SPDIF and no USB.

I haven't tried any other cable to the Genelecs, but since this particular cable worked all the time and still works with Hosa and also works with RME ADI-2 Pro when I use sample rates above 48kHz, I really don't have a clue how could it affect the performance. I could also try to connect SPDIF optical out from RME to Hosa, but unfortunately have no other toslink cable in studio right now. But I find it redundant to purchase on Monday an additional cable to find such a partial solution (in case it works) because I really wanted to use ADI-2 Pro for this task.

Since headphones output work flawlessly at any sample rate while the Genelecs reject the signal, it really must be something related to AES out...I admit I am out of idea since I spent the whole day trying to figure it out.

For test I also recorded a SPDIF loopback with UAD.. recorded source was SPDIF-in with UAD that was received from SPDIF out of ADI-2 and sent to ADI-2  from UAD SPDIF-out and it also worked with any sample rates, while I couldn't monitor this procedure with Genelecs when at 44.1 and 48kHz.

6

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Please try the Hosa converter with the ADI's SPDIF optical out. I have no idea what is going wrong here, sorry.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

I just tried it, made just one way connection UAD Apollo SPDIF out -> RME ADI SPDIF-in -> RME ADI SPDIF-out -> Hosa SPDIF to AES converter -> Genelecs, and it works like a charm. Even though that there is no reverse connection (loop), ADI successfully syncs with Apollo and everything works with all sample rates. As soon as I remove Hosa out of the chain and go UAD Apollo SPDIF-out -> RME SPDIF-in -> RME AES-out -> Genelecs everything is again like I described - Genelecs don't decode AES from ADI when it is 44.1 or 48kHz and start stuttering with the red led turned on.

It obviously looks something is wrong with my particular unit? Should I ask for a replacement? I would really like to use and can I expect that with a normally oprerating unit this should work without any issue?

I also just connected it via USB and forced it to rewrite the firmware once again, but nothing changed.

8

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Sure it should just work. Replacing the unit would be the next step. But before that you might play around a bit more, set the unit to USB mode, Multi-channel mode, internal clock, and connect AES out with AES in by your XLR cable. Just to check if there is also something going wrong when the ADI has to read that output signal.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Ok, will try it now. So I set up ADI as an interface on my mac, set the CC-Mode to multichannel and go AES to Genelecs...will report it in 10 minutes. Thanks.

10 (edited by Jantex 2018-04-08 09:10:53)

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

May I just ask which out of 8 availabe channels in my Audio-MIDI setup on Mac re supposed to be set for AES playback? I suppose 1,2,3 and 4 are reserved for analog outs? so 5,6 or 7,8?

Ok, found out channels 5,6 transmit AES. Again the same story. Everything plays well with 88.2, 96, 176,4 and 192kHz but again no sound when my Genelecs start blinking red when being fed with 44.1 and 96kHz. So the same behaviour in a standalone mode, just that I get no stuttering sound here, only silence and Genelecs blink red instead of having a steady led. Now I exhaused all possible option and I suppose it is obvious there should be something wrong with a particular unit?

11

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

You missed the loopback test?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

I can try this as well...to record AES loopback...wil report. smile

13 (edited by Jantex 2018-04-08 11:15:04)

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Tried it, while it had to record music that was streaming from Tidal, it only recorded a bunch of clicks and pops. I also saved the audio file in case there would be interest in examing it.

I set in Cubase 9.5 my ADI as my interface, set in6 and in6 as my input bus within Audio Connections and played Tidal in the background which was routed via outs 5 and 6 in my Audio-MIDI settings. I made a loop without inserting my cable because the cables on the breakout box from ADI are long enough so I could connect both AES XLR-s together.

14

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Sorry, but that is not what I had in mind. I wanted you to use the XLR cable that you use for the Genelecs between in and out. And then check the Status Overview about the incoming signal, and listen to the incoming AES signal via Phones out 3/4 (Source...).

What you did could have several reasons for clicks and pops, and does not check the cable.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

15 (edited by Jantex 2018-04-09 07:05:27)

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Yesterday I had an additional thorough testing day.

First I tried according to your advice to connect AES in - AES out and listen to the signal via Phones 3/4 (source set to AES in) like you suggested. Using my cable nothing went through at salmpe rates 44.1 and 48kHz but everything worked at higher, if I connected directly the plugs breakout box without additional cable everything passed successfuly at all sample rates.

After that I used my three addional AES cables and non of them passed with ADI-2 Pro (I use the first going from interface to Genelec sub 7370, second from sub to one 8351 speaker and third from one speaker to another 8351 speaker). After that I borrowed form a colleagues studio another 4 AES cables (all different brands: mine were Klotz, he had two Mogamis and one Sommer cable). All of the cables are dedicated AES3 110Ohm cables and all worked with Genelecs and Hosa, but non of them worked with ADI-2 Pro.

After that I also tried them with my live recording rig that I brought from our rehearsal place, where I still use Fireface 800 and all the cables also successfuly worked with FF800 AES out. So there definitely must be something strange regarding AES output on my particular ADI-2 Pro, because it didn't let the AES signal at lower sample rates with any other cable apart from direct breakout box patching.

All of the cables were between 3m and 5m long which is nothing significant for AES transmissoion. All had Neutrik connectors.

So I am taking my ADI-2 Pro today to the store for a replacement, because I suppose if also Fireface 800 works with any of the cables I tested, there must obviously be something wrong with this ADI and it would not be normal for it to be so fussy about cables.

16

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Correct. Thanks for testing.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

MC wrote:

Correct. Thanks for testing.

And I would like to thank you for your kind support and guidance...even though it was a weekend time. I really appreciate it and am very thankful. I am really glad to be a RME user.

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Today I received a unit from shop for testing and this one performs flawlessly with my cables. So they will now order a new unit for me. Thanks again for your support.

19

Re: Issue with ADI-2 PRO and Genelec 8351s connected via AES on ADI-2 Pro

Good to hear that!

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME