1 Topic by swedishstudio (edited by swedishstudio 2019-05-26 00:44:51)

  • Registered: 2019-05-26
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Topic: RME ADI-2 Pro FS vs RME ADI-2 DAC?

Hi! I am new here as I am on the hunt for "cheap high-end audio" meaning I really just want to pay for a limited amount of inputs & outputs while still retaining high-quality results in terms of audio quality (high-end tubes/chips for preamp, ADC & DAC).

I don't need a million inputs or outputs like in your typical 3-4K$ studio, I just need 1-2 inputs (microphone inputs with preamp+phantom power support) and 1 HQ headphone output (high impedance support) and your classical stereo L+R XLR outputs for studio monitors (I have a pair of Adam A7X which I consider the "cheapest high-end studio monitors").

I am wondering if this is even possible with these two different candidates: RME ADI-2 Pro FS and RME ADI-2 DAC? It seems to me that the second one is just purely a DAC and has zero support for any kind of ADC? (no recording capabilities).

But the first one does not have phantom power support so how in the world would I use its amazing ADC to record with my microphone Schoeps CMIT5U? Right now I only have a Audient iD14 and Sound Devices MixPre-3 for recording & monitoring purposes, but I was wondering if RME could give me even better ADC recording and also more enjoyment from the DAC.

Is there any way to send its analogue signal+phantom power BEFORE it gets its amazing preamp+ADC treatment that the RME ADI-2 Pro FS seem to be able to offer? I apologize beforehand for my possible lack or confusion of all these technical terms!

Best regards,
SwedishStudio.

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-05-26 10:25:57)

  • ramses
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Re: RME ADI-2 Pro FS vs RME ADI-2 DAC?

The ADI-2 DAC is the non-Studio version of the ADI-2 Pro FS for HiFi Enthusiasts.
To be able to offer it for an more affordable price of under €1000 certain features had to go,
that usually are only required in studios.

You mentioned already AD conversion.
But to make the list complete:
- no AES
- no digital outputs (ADAT/opt SPDIF, coax SPDIF)
- no 2nd phones preamp thus no possibility for i.e. balanced connection to phones
but additionally
+ IEM output
+ Remote Control

So you need an ADI-2 Pro FS to have AD conversion.
You would need a separate dedicated Mic Preamp with phantom power and with an analog output.

The ADI-2 Pro FS does not have TotalMix FX which can be very handy for zero latency monitoring mixes
and to be able to configure a nice routing and to be able to make use of the ARC USB.

Therefore I would recommend to you, to get also a RME recording interface with TotalMix FX.
Ideal is a recording interface with 2 separate digital outputs like AES and optical SPDIF.

Then you can even control via TotalMix FX and the ARC USB, whether you want to listen via Monitor or Phones.

See also my blog article here: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ort-DE-EN/

To switch between monitors and phones you can also / additionally setup on the ADI-2 Pro which I describe here:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

If you want you can also start with the ADI-2 Pro FS alone and see, whether you need TotalMix FX or not.

I took a closer look what combination of ADI-2 Pro FS and RME Recording Interface you could take to get TotalMix FX and the possibility to make use of the ARC USB. To be more specific on this: the ARC USB is a remote control which is very handy.
You can connect it to the PC and then TotalMix FX does the interfaceing between the ARC USB and the recording interface.
Note.: only the new Interfaces like UFX+ and UFX II have a dedicated USB port for the ARC USB on the back, so that you can use the ARC USB also in stand-alone operation with the interface.

Ok .. so we need to look for RME recording interfaces, where you have 2 independend digital outputs, which need to match the ADI-2 Pro's digital inputs:
- ADAT or optical SPDIF
- AES or coaxial SPDIF (via breakout cable)

I will mention the interfaces in the order of ports and price.

A combination of ADAT and AES I regard as optimum as
- you have galvanic isolation with ADAT/optical SPDIF and
- also AES is very well shielded:
PCIe: RayDAT
USB: 802, UFX II, UFX+ (by using ADAT1 and AES, because ADAT2 and AES are not fully separated)

Next best possibility are interfaces offering a combination of ADAT and coaxial SPDIF
USB: UC, UCX

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2019-05-26
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Re: RME ADI-2 Pro FS vs RME ADI-2 DAC?

Thank you very much for your thorough reply! smile

I have been going through its downloadable PDF manual for the RME ADI-2 Pro FS unit and it seems to me that it has no internal preamps nor phantom power in the unit itself, RME ADI-2 Pro FS that is? However it does talk about a "Preamp mode" when not being connected to PC but I see nothing about gain levels so I guess it is not what I think it is?

So, those two analogue inputs are really just pure inputs that need the final signal of preamped+and phantom powered (for mics needing it) BEFORE they are even connected to them? I am so used of having preamp+phantom power in the same interface that I can turn on/off (48V) and adjust (gain) which is why I am just making sure that I understand it this time.

Otherwise I have no clue what you would use two analogue inputs that have no preamp and/or phantom power to offer? (As you might realize, I am a beginner in this). However, its physical size suggests that you just cannot fit that much eletronics with needed separation to eliminate interferences and therefore you just a have two simple analogue inputs that need the complete preamped+phantom powered signal?

4 Reply by swedishstudio (edited by swedishstudio 2019-05-26 10:05:01)

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Re: RME ADI-2 Pro FS vs RME ADI-2 DAC?

Btw: I have been looking at RME Fireface UC as an alternative but I am wondering whether I am sacrificing AD/DA quality due to its much lower price-tag when you look at what you get and considering I will connect a Schoeps CMIT5U to it. An external 48V+preamp I have been looking at is Avalon V5 Silver.

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Re: RME ADI-2 Pro FS vs RME ADI-2 DAC?

swedishstudio wrote:

Thank you very much for your thorough reply! smile

I have been going through its downloadable PDF manual for the RME ADI-2 Pro FS unit and it seems to me that it has no internal preamps nor phantom power in the unit itself, RME ADI-2 Pro FS that is? However it does talk about a "Preamp mode" when not being connected to PC but I see nothing about gain levels so I guess it is not what I think it is?

Preamp mode is simply the name of one of the automatic detected routing mode if there is no digital connection (USB, SPDIF, AES) ...

swedishstudio wrote:

So, those two analogue inputs are really just pure inputs that need the final signal of preamped+and phantom powered (for mics needing it) BEFORE they are even connected to them? I am so used of having preamp+phantom power in the same interface that I can turn on/off (48V) and adjust (gain) which is why I am just making sure that I understand it this time.

A Mic input is a Mic input, a line input is a line input.
The ADI-2 Pro has analog line inputs.

swedishstudio wrote:

Otherwise I have no clue what you would use two analogue inputs that have no preamp and/or phantom power to offer? (As you might realize, I am a beginner in this). However, its physical size suggests that you just cannot fit that much eletronics with needed separation to eliminate interferences and therefore you just a have two simple analogue inputs that need the complete preamped+phantom powered signal?

A line input is the preamp for line signals. You can switch the reference level for inputs and outputs.

A mic input is the preamp for mic signals. There you can adjust the gain and enable phantom power if the mic needs it.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-05-26 11:56:35)

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Re: RME ADI-2 Pro FS vs RME ADI-2 DAC?

swedishstudio wrote:

Btw: I have been looking at RME Fireface UC as an alternative but I am wondering whether I am sacrificing AD/DA quality due to its much lower price-tag when you look at what you get and considering I will connect a Schoeps CMIT5U to it. An external 48V+preamp I have been looking at is Avalon V5 Silver.

Although the UC has older AD/DA converters does not mean that they are really worse.

If you pick the ADI-2 Pro then you get reference grade AD/DA converter where RME gets most out of those converter chips whats possible. And the better quality of D/A converters is audible, which means you can hear it.

The sound and stereo image and depth is better and this you can also hear on not so expensive monitors.
A friend from Vienna to whom I recommended the ADI-2 Pro was excited that even his old Yamaha monitors sound better.
I personally made the same experience with my Geithain RL 906 monitors.
They "stage" / presentation of a room is with the ADI-2 Pro FS better compared to the D/A converters in the Monitor itself and even compared to UFX+.

You can also alternatively get an UFX II which has phantastic mic preamps, the analog section has been enhanced much compared to the old flagship interface UFX. Then you have a very good compromise of very good sound, DURec, TotalMix FX and a lot of channels for other purposes.

Or you want the best AD/DA conversion, then get ADI-2 Pro FS.
And I would recommend to get TM FX on top to be able in the future to create near zero latency mixes for phones.

For this I made already a proposal to you including the integration of the very useful ARC USB.

The ultimate solution is a flagship interface (UFXII / UFX+) which supports DURec in combination with ADI-2 Pro FS.
These interfaces have
- dampening of power-on/off on all analog outputs
- DURec (direct USB recording to disk)
- you can operate the interface fully standalone and attach the ARC USB directly to the unit
- you can even attach a footswitch to the ARC USB to start/stop recording and such things

Valid Combinations for you are i.e.:
- ADI-2 Pro FS alone, but without TotalMix FX, no possibility to use ARC USB
- RayDAT + ADI-2 Pro FS, optional ARC USB (PCIe)
- UC        + ADI-2 Pro FS, optional ARC USB (USB2, 9.5")
- UCX      + ADI-2 Pro FS, optional ARC USB (USB2, 9.5")
- UFX II   + ADI-2 Pro FS, optional ARC USB (USB2, 19", latest converter tech, new analog section)

A comparison of nearly all RME recording interfaces you can find here in an Excel attached to an blog article of mine, there you can compare converter speed, phones outputs, etc etc, lots of useful information)

Excel: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 8-08-xlsx/
PDF: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 18-08-pdf/

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … B-MADIfac/

PS: I updated the Blog article for you now, to have up to date information, which interfaces you could combina with the ADI-2 Pro FS to be able to have TM FX routing in the setup and to use the ARC USB.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ort-DE-EN/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14