Topic: Speaker-B Routing

First of all, I'm sorry for my bad English. I have the RME UFX-II sound card and I am very pleased! smile But I'm experiencing a lack of routing in Totalmix. When I activate the Speaker B output, it automatically assigns AN 1/2 (software playback) to this output. Because Speaker B and Main Output work together and this is not changed. I would like to make a different assignment to Main Output and Speaker B. For example, Main Speaker-> AN 1/2 (software playback), Speaker B-> AN 3/4 (software playback). Since there was no such problem at Phones 1 and 2, I was able to assign them AN 5/6 (software playback). The reason I want it is because of the new maping feature in Sonarworks. Is it possible to make an update about this smile

Re: Speaker-B Routing

I think you didn't understand the concept thats explained in the manual.

1. use the assign button in TM FX
- to assign Monitor A, B, Phones 1..4 etc to the proper HW outputs
- by this you move those outputs in TM FX Control Room so that you can use Control Room functions like DIM, Mono, etc

2. the next part is routing.
- Ensure to be in submix mode (TM FX: upper right area in light blue)
- Click to a HW Output and
- then set the fader of HW inputs and SW playback channels
  to create the submix for this particular HW output as you need it (*)

Click i.e. on Phones1 output in Control room (Phones1 is assumed to be assigned to AN9/10)

As soon as you select an HW output in submix mode, then you see on the bottom of faders
in top and middle row (HW inputs and SW playback channels) "PH 9/10".
This indicates that the fader settings have now impact only for the Submix "HW Output Phones AN 9/10 OUT".

If you want to directly hear the input from a connected Mic on AN9, raise the fader of HW input AN9 in top row.
Now you hear the direct signal of the Mic in near zero latency.
You want to hear the Mic signal after processing from the DAW ?
Then set the Fader of HW Input AN 9 to zero and raise the fader on SW playback channel xx.
You need to route the signal then in the DAW and if you decide this Mic output will be send to AN3/4,
then it will be send to the SW playback channel AN3/4.
But not look closely. SW Playback Channel 3/4 is not yet the HW output on the recording interface.
Its not your responsibility to decide to what HW output you route the Mic signal coming from DAW.
By this it is possible to decide in TM FX whether you want to hear the processed mic signal eventually louder,
compared to the backing track.

I hope this makes it clear, that assign only brings output channels into the TM FX control room to use the control room features. The rest is simply a matter of routing.

You can even disable TM FX routing entirely, if you decide to route in the DAW.
This can be achieved by activating "DAW mode".

This is a nice feature in cases that you have i.e. 3 RayDAT cards.
TM FX can not route channels across the different physical cards, they are separate entities.
But .. you could enter DAW mode and then route with the DAW to this or that output, no matter on which card.

Its very powerful and flexible, the best Mixer I say, very structured and logical to get the job done.

You only need to know very little basic design principles, then its very easy and user friendly.

As will all things, as soon as you understand its easy wink

If you want I can offer to you two resources which makes it potentially easier to advance in quicker steps,
compared to pure handbook reading.

1. Look all RME Tutorial Videos to get an idea about the capabilities of TM FX and how to operate: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … al-Videos/

2. look at my TM FX primer for a solid 1st time setup: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/

3. look the manual for details, if you saw already #1 and performed #2, then it is easier to understand the manual,
   because then everything is already more familiar to you wink

And remember, also Rome has not been build in one day ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by uYeL 2019-10-13 23:33:41)

Re: Speaker-B Routing

I guess I couldn't tell you exactly what I wanted smile My Totalmix operational mode is: Full mode. Routing Mode is: Submix.


I assign Main to  hardware output 1-2 and Speaker B to hardware output 3-4. I even tried to assign Speaker B to output 5-6, but it didn't matter. You will see that when you assign Main out 2(or Speaker B), you choose one of them and the other one(Main 1) is selected. (even in submix mode)

I've tried all the modes, watched videos, even switched on the matrix display. But unfortunately I can't change what I'm saying. Please turn on Totalmix and try sending AN / 1-2 to Main(only) and AN / 3-4 to Speaker B(only). Or send the Mic9 to Main(only), and the Mic10 to Speaker B(only) (I gave it as a different example) "you can't send" because Main Out and Speaker B all the time "link". Link button on Speaker B only closes the Fader link. But this is "sending link" problem.

Why do I want something like that? Because I split the Mixbuss Out at DAW. I have two exits.
1-) Speaker A Sonarworks speaker profile and out AN / 1-2.
2-) Speaker B Sonarworks speaker profile and out AN / 3-4.

And If I had said this, I would be able to listen to A-B between 2 speakers by pressing the Spekaer B button on Totalmix (with 2 different speaker correction profile files).

I'm attaching the screenshot to the message.

https://i.hizliresim.com/4pOv97.png

Re: Speaker-B Routing

And this is my totalmix screen:

https://i.hizliresim.com/va7vNA.png

5

Re: Speaker-B Routing

Such a feature will not come. You can easily do this right now by mirroring the Main to another output and use Mute on both outputs alternating.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Speaker-B Routing

If you have 2 different buses from your daw with two different sonarworks presets you  can route them both to Main/speaker B in totalmix and then create mute groups with snapshots to change between them.
Example:
snapshot 1 mutes bus with sonarworks preset 2 and activates main speakers. snapshot 2 mutes bus with sonarworks preset 1 and activates speaker B. you can then switch with the push of a button if you have the ARC-controller, or do it manually in totalmix if not. This way you have the same volume on both, hassle free.

Hope that helps smile

Re: Speaker-B Routing

MC wrote:

Such a feature will not come. You can easily do this right now by mirroring the Main to another output and use Mute on both outputs alternating.

I'm sorry,"a feature" should be linking the Main Out to Speaker B software routing, not unlinking them.

It's 2021 and more and more studios are using speaker room calibration and have 2 sets of speakers.

Of course there's a workaround with snapshots, but that will affect the whole mix inside that snapshot, which is something neither of us want.

The second alternative is to buy an external monitor controller with 2 separate stereo inputs and 2 outputs, but I already bought ARC USB.

So why would you dismiss this request?


I'm routing through Control Room in Cubase to 2 different stereo outputs, each one has its' own calibration vst. What am I supposed to do in this situation?

Re: Speaker-B Routing

It should be possible to route the final audio to two different outputs, e.g. AN 1/2 OUT AN 3/4 OUT
In TM FX Full mode audio will arrive on SW Playback Channel AN1/2 (with calibration 1) and AN3/4 (with calibration 2).
Assign AN1/2 to Main Out
Assign An3/4 to Main Out B
Toggle between "Main Out" and "Main Out B" by selecting and releaseing "Speaker B" with the mouse.
Or use the "Speaker B" key of your ARC USB.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Speaker-B Routing

ramses wrote:

It should be possible to route the final audio to two different outputs, e.g. AN 1/2 OUT AN 3/4 OUT
In TM FX Full mode audio will arrive on SW Playback Channel AN1/2 (with calibration 1) and AN3/4 (with calibration 2).
Assign AN1/2 to Main Out
Assign An3/4 to Main Out B
Toggle between "Main Out" and "Main Out B" by selecting and releaseing "Speaker B" with the mouse.
Or use the "Speaker B" key of your ARC USB.

It isn't, you don't need audio to do this experiment, just assign a second speaker B and try controlling the playback fader, for example, to Main Out(analog 1-2 or whatever you have assigned) and notice that it will automatically put the fader in the same position to Speaker B (analog 3-2 or whatever other channel you have assigned it to).

The problem is that when you assign a Speaker B(Main Out B) you can't select only one of them(and I'm not talking about volume link or the totalmix wrench/eq/dynamic settings, these work separately, as expected).

Try it and let us know if me or the OP are complaining for no reason.

10 (edited by ramses 2021-06-15 21:55:12)

Re: Speaker-B Routing

Hi Cezar,

when deselecting/deactivating the "link" button (right beside "Mono" button) of Speaker B, then I can move the fader of "Main Out" and "Speaker B" individually.

When selecting the two different HW Ouputs "Main Out" / "Speaker B", then I see different submixes.

If I do not want to have SW Playback AN 1/2 for Speaker B, then I turn the fader of Speaker B down and then it is not part of the submix anymore. Click to sub on the right side to see only channels that route into this submix/hw output.

Sorry, at the moment I do not see the/a problem. TM FX 1.72 here.

Would it be possible for you to provide a Youtube video ? Maybe it's then easier to understand.
At the moment "the penny doesn't drop".

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

11 (edited by CezarPage 2021-06-15 22:09:51)

Re: Speaker-B Routing

ramses wrote:

Hi Cezar,

when deselecting/deactivating the "link" button (right beside "Mono" button) of Speaker B, then I can move the fader of "Main Out" and "Speaker B" individually.

When selecting the two different HW Ouputs "Main Out" / "Speaker B", then I see different submixes.

If I do not want to have SW Playback AN 1/2 for Speaker B, then I turn the fader of Speaker B down and then it is not part of the submix anymore. Click to sub on the right side to see only channels that route into this submix/hw output.

Sorry, at the moment I do not see the/a problem. TM FX 1.72 here.

Would it be possible for you to provide a Youtube video ? Maybe it's then easier to understand.
At the moment "the penny doesn't drop".

Here you go, dude

Main Out ->Analog 1-2
Speaker B -> AES

Note that the LINK button on speaker B is NOT activated.
TM FX 1.72

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfMF8LUGN78

Re: Speaker-B Routing

I have the same issue. I've recently bought a Fireface UCX II and an ARC USB (replacing my Steinberg MR816CSX). I use Sonarworks software to apply room correction EQ

Old setup
I use Cubase with Control Room enabled.
Each pair of Monitors had it's own EQ correction applied via the Sonarworks plugin.
I have them volume balanced and can flip between them using the A/B buttons in Cubase Control Room
Overall volume is controlled via the rotary knob on the front of the MR816

I can't get this to work smoothly with TotalMix. When I flip between channels in Cubase I have to flip between Main and Speaker B in TotalMix (using the ARC). This wouldn't be a problem if I could have different submixes for Main and Speaker B. That doesn't seem to be possible at the moment.

A workaround would be to use one of the Phones outputs in the TotalMix Control Room as my second monitor. I can then route a Cue Mix from Cubase to this. But then I can't control the volume of the second monitor with the ARC USB. If I could link faders in the TotalMix Control Room then this would be an excellent solution.

So, I've gone from having one button to switch monitors and one volume control to either:
a) Needing to keep Cubase and Totalmix monitors in sync to make sure the EQ correction is correct
b) Needing to manually adjust the volume of the second speakers in TotalMix

So - two feature requests:
1) The ability to have separate submixes for Main and Speaker B (preferred)
2) The ability to link faders in the TotalMix Control Room

Make sense?

Re: Speaker-B Routing

Would you believe it, within minutes of posting this I discovered a really neat workaround. It's a bit fiddly so strap in...

Physical setup
UCXII with Analog 1/2 connected to my Main Monitors and Analog 3/4 connected to my Second Monitors
ARC USB

DAW setup.
This is for Cubase but should be similar in other DAW's
1) In Cubase Control Room route your Main Monitor as as normal (UCXII - Analog 1/2)
2) Add a Cue Mix and route it to your Second Monitor (UCXII - Analog 3/4)
3) Add in EQ correction as required to each output as required

TotalMix setup
1) Set up two Snapshots, one for the Main Monitors, one for the Second Monitors. I've saved them in SNAP7 (for my Mains) and SNAP8 (For my Seconds)
2) SNAP7 (Mains)
- In the TotalMix Control Room assign Main Out B to your Second Monitor outputs (I'm using Analog 3/4)
- Make sure the 'Speaker B' button is not enabled (so it's grey)
- In the Software Playback section turn up the faders to 0dB for 'Analog 1/2' and 'Analog 3/4'.
- In the Software Playback section mute 'Analog 3/4'
- Store the snapshot in SNAP7 and SNAP8
3) SNAP8 (Seconds)
- In the TotalMix Control Room assign Main Out B to your Second Monitor outputs (I'm using Analog 3/4)
- Make sure the 'Speaker B' button is enabled (so it's orange)
- In the Software Playback section mute 'Analog 1/2' and unmute 'Analog 3/4'
- Store the snapshot in SNAP8
4) In either snapshot, adjust the volume levels until they are balanced. You can do this by:
- unlink the faders by clicking the orange 'Link' button on Analog 3/4 in the Control Room
- adjust levels
- check balance
- repeat

This gives me exactly what I need. One button press to switch between monitors (SNAP7/SNAP8) and the ARC USB rotary knob controls volume for both.

Re: Speaker-B Routing

Hey man,

My workaround was making 2 snapshots, one with Speaker A path assigned as main, the second one with Speaker B path assigned to main.
You can can fader groups between the 2 outputs (say you main output is speaker A at the moment, you edit a fader group for volume and link the main volume fader to the fader volume of the second pair of monitors output). The link will be kept regardless of snapshots. You'll know it's linked once these 2 faders turn red in Totalmix.

The second thing is to replace the Speaker B button on the Arc Usb to trigger Snapshot 2, which is the one which should have Speaker B as main out.

Hope this helps, apparently RME doesn't want to waste time helping us with this very small feature request, which, if you ask me, should have been there by default.

Cezar

Re: Speaker-B Routing

Hey Cezar,

Yep - I can see how that would work too. Thanks for the tips.

It's annoying that this use case isn't catered for - for me it's a serious workflow killer.

That said, I'm mightily impressed with TotalMix. After 2 days of mucking around with it, there doesn't seem to be anything it can't do. Yeah, in this case I had to find a convoluted workaround, but in the end I did find one! It's so good I was expecting it to be perfect!

James

Re: Speaker-B Routing

this is absolutely an issue!

the snapshots are no solution as mentioned above.

I have to have couple things wired to my speakerB-speakers independently, but its just not possible.

Re: Speaker-B Routing

I have another way that I used to use before getting Ground Control SPHERE.


I used a StremDeck, but you could use any kind of midi controller to do this.

Enable midi control using an IAC buss in Totalmix.  (F3 or Settings)
Setup a MIDI button in Streamdeck software that in my case SNAPSHOT 5 was my SpeakerB out.
- the midi command to change to Snapshot2 is note on 55 velocity 1.
- I would then use MIDI learn in SoundID to also trigger the B speakers profile/preset in SoundID.
Works a treat. 
I've now moved onto an even more elaborate setup with 7.1.4, but this should get ya going and as I mentioned, you could use any manner of MIDI controller to do such, even a virtual one.

----------------
Matt McKenzie-Smith (UFXII, UFX, Babyface) MacStudioUltra OS13.2.1
----------------

Re: Speaker-B Routing

I'm also experiencing this 'issue', and after many years of using RME products with flawless performance I was surprised to find that this wasn't possible. There's definitely multiple ways around this however. In my case, I'm simply using the Speaker B button on the ARC USB to switch between monitor speakers and my headphones which due to impedance need less signal.


No big deal, but if there's ever an update to TotalMix to address this I'd be grateful! Thanks RME!