Topic: Raydat in Thunderbolt 3

I've just recently upgraded my Lynx converters and unfortunately I've had to move away from RME after 20 years. I wish you would bring out a RayDat HDSPe for Thunderbolt 3. I would buy it in a blink. So, please... smile

Nuendo 10, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, NVidia GForce GTX 1060

2 (edited by ramses 2020-02-29 13:14:06)

Re: Raydat in Thunderbolt 3

Hi Robin,

could you please tell a little bit more about your setup / requirement ? Maybe there are other ways to reach this goal.

For Apple and Windows 10 PCs you could i.e. get thunderbolt based PCIe expansion cases offering additional PCIe slots:
https://www.sonnettech.com/de/product/e … e1tb3.html

In regards to your request: don't forget, devices with thunderbolt ports limit the use for most people, because there are still too few and affordable devices with thunderbolt support available on the market and you can't upgrade a PC to thunderbolt if it has not been designed/prepared upfront for it.

So in such cases I see it more as a benefit to be able to use the RayDAT in combination with a thunderbolt expansion case, than designing a product, that would be a) more expensive by thunderbolt alone and b) could only be used by a few people who have a PC/Laptop with thunderbolt support.

From the pure amount of channels (64) PCIe is not required because RME has excellent USB drivers so that even 68 ports (in+out) are possible through USB2, see MADIface Pro or also the Digiface USB. If more channels are required RME uses USB3 and thunderbolt as an option where it makes sense like for the UFX+.

Could you kindly explain, why i.e. a Digiface USB does not fit your demands, to mention an alternative RME product?
It also offers 4x ADAT I/O and has one analog port for connecting i.e. phones.
It has the flexibility and unique feature that all ADAT ports can be switched from ADAT to SPDIF protocol.

What we can see in the market is a certain tendency that some companies offer devices with thunderbolt for only a few I/O ports where I do not see the rationale behind it, because thunderbolt for a few channels is overkill. It only raises the price for no real (technical) reason and limits useability to a limited amount of people with a computer offering thunderbolt.

I can only assume that these companies want to compensate deficites in their USB drivers, because of
a) a lack of knowledge to write high quality USB drivers with low latency and
b) they are missing the solid hardware design of RME to use programmable FPGA chips even for the communication to the PC
to have everything upgradeable and under control. By this you do not have to rely on 3rd party communication chips,
that might be broken and enables RME to fix everything.

This is one of the key advantages / features of RME devices, that RME can fix everything by driver and firmware upgrades. Otherwise it would not be possible to support devices with firmware and driver updates for around 19 years.

To sum up, I have a certain feeling that there are alternative ways for you to stay with RME with the current product offering.
Awaiting additional information from you. Many thanks.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Raydat in Thunderbolt 3

Hi Ramses.

Thank you so much for your reply!

Yesterday was a sad day when I uninstalled the RME drivers for the first time in 20+ years..

Due to the channel-count loss over ADAT and the need to record at 96k on the odd occasion I had to find another solution. Having been on the Lynx converters for years I decided to upgrade to the Lynx Hilo and Aurora(n)24, both on TB3.

My current setup is:
W10 / Nuendo
Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra Motherboard
Gigabyte Titan Ridge PCIe TB3 card (this card has two TB3 ports)

Everything is running smoothly, which is great. Also, at a later stage, should someone want to use one of the UAD TB3 setups it'll be an easy switch/addition.

But, I miss having the best drivers in the world running the show for me. Nothing compares to the RME drivers. The way your drivers integrate everything is unsurpassed! Also, the loss of the complete dependability of my RayDat is still scary at the moment. That's why I would prefer to have a RME/PCIe/TB3 card in my machine facilitating communication with my PC. 

Cheers,
Robin

Nuendo 10, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, NVidia GForce GTX 1060

4 (edited by ramses 2020-02-29 14:41:51)

Re: Raydat in Thunderbolt 3

Its not only RME drivers ... I see a recording setup from a broader angle.

What do you have from drivers alone if the daily operation / interaction with a recording inteface is limited or even dissatisfactory ? RME's TotalMix FX has been designed for best performance, no lag, optimum features since around 20y.
By this it reached an outstanding maturity. I personally couldn't live without it anymore.

I see alternative solutions for you with the current product portfolio.

Why didn't you simply base your purchase decision i.e. on a RME UFX+ ?

It would have offered to you so much flexibility from ground up:
- Thunderbolt and USB3 (even USB2) operation
- already 8 excellent analog IN and OUT where you do not loose channel count because its integrated into the device
- each analog port can be set to different reference levels individually
- MADI (64 channels) for further expansion for AD/DA converter or preamps.
- DURec, I coldn't live with that feature anymore, be it as tape deck in standalone mode or as backup recording
- Autoset
- and a lot of other I/O ports (2x ADAT, AES, MIDI, ..)
- already 2 excellent phones outputs !
- fully standalone operateable by display
- everything in only 1 RU

Then RME or 3rd party AD/DA converters connected through MADI.
Voila and you would have your dream setup based on RME and Thunderbolt !

This setup could then optionally be enhanced by further additional components of the RME portfolio:
- ARC USB to make operation even more comfortably
- ADI-2 Pro FS R BE if you want an excellent AD/DA converter for Phones and Monitors with advanced features
  now even with an updated remote control which give you some additional comfort when listening to music

If you should not be familiar with MADI, it offers to you
- 64 channels @44.1/48, 32 channels @88.2/96 kHz
- galvanic isolation
- up to 2km fiber connections between each of the devices on the MADI bus allowing for very flexible placement in buildings
- OM3/OM4 patch cables are available up to 30m
RME MADI features like
- MIDI over MADI for remote controlling devices
- automatic delay compensation on the MADI bus if sample exact recording between all device on the MADI bus is required

A real dream setup from RME would be UFX+ and the M32 Pro AD and M32 Pro DA.
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_ufx_2.htm €2162
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_m_32_ad_pro.htm €3589
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_m_32_da_pro.htm €3589
You would have
- the 8 analog I/O of the UFX+
- 32 high professional analog inputs and outputs of the M32 Pro at 96 kHz
The M32 Pro is even prepared for AVB (future proof)
- offers very nice optical display of level of each port
- each analog port can be set to different reference levels individually
- dual power supply support
- Configuration and routing additionally through a Web interface

If you need it less expensive, then UFX+ and Ferrofish
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_ufx_2.htm     €2162
https://www.thomann.de/de/ferrofish_a32 … verter.htm €1999

Look how other studio professionals rate and use the M-32 Pro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GArwdlV … e=emb_logo (English)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZD6O1n … e=emb_logo (German)

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Raydat in Thunderbolt 3

"A real dream setup from RME would be UFX+ and the M32 Pro AD and M32 Pro DA."

Yes, that would be my dream setup!!!!!! smile

Nuendo 10, HDSPe RayDat, UAD 2, Windows 10, NVidia GForce GTX 1060