1 (edited by FD10 2021-04-25 17:27:19)

Topic: AIO PRO vs BABYFACE PRO FS - ADC/DAC + HP AMP Comparison

Hello RME Team,

I am deciding whether to buy an RME AIO PRO or a BABYFACE PRO FS.

The advantages of the Babyface pro FS in terms of mobility, microphone amplifier and more do not play a role here as I have a MAC desktop PC and external preamplifier.

I am only interested in which device has the better AD/DA conversion and which headphone amplifier is the better one.

AD/DA facts

AIO PRO AK5572 and AK4490

BF PRO FS AK5574 and AK44XX (unknown DAC converter maybe the same AK4413 as in BF PRO not FS)

Level Facts

AIO PRO AD +24dbu DA +24dbu Reference Level

BF PRO FS I think AD +19dbu and DA +19dbu


Headphone amplifier
AIO PRO / BF PRO FS is too complicated for me but according to the data sheet there are also differences.

As far as I know, the AIO PRO is the closest to the ADI-2 PRO (FS) converter + HP AMP.

I don't need the additional features of the ADI-2 PRO FS, but as I said, I would like to have the device with the best AD/DA conversion and headphone amplifier that is closest to the ADI-2 PRO.

I hope the beloved RME community can help me with my decision.

Thank you very much in advance

2 (edited by ramses 2021-04-25 17:04:05)

Re: AIO PRO vs BABYFACE PRO FS - ADC/DAC + HP AMP Comparison

FD10 wrote:

Hello RME Team

Hi FD10,

nice to meet you. I am not from RME, but I can give you some good ideas for building a very nice environment.

What do you need the environment for, what would you like to connect ?
How high is the budget that you have set for yourself?

What surprises me in your listing of the devices is that you:

  • compare devices with and without TotalMix FX with each other, as if it does not matter so much and

  • in terms of the ADI-2 FS you even list a device which is a pure converter, even without USB audio interface.

The routing possibilities that TotalMix FX offers can also be used in situations that have nothing to do with recording. For example, to create a well balanced submix from several different audio sources, such as the following, which I once needed one evening, to achieve the following:
1. play a game
2. listen to my own background music
3. listen to a Youtube tutorial of the game in the background

There are also other ways to combine RME devices. A recording interface with TotalMix FX as base and then either ADI-2 DAC FS or ADI-2 Pro FS R BE via ADAT. I described such a setup here in my blog article:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

The advantage is, that you could use the very unique and useful features of ADI-2 DAC/Pro for monitors and phones
and to create monitor mixes with high flexibility that TotalMix FX offers.

To put some examples that might fit, depending on your MACs capabilities and other demands:
  - Digiface USB (USB)       and ADI-2 DAC FS  = €357 + €966 = €1323
  - Babyface Pro FS (USB) and ADI-2 DAC FS  = €698 + €966 = €1664
  - RayDAT (PCIe)              and ADI-2 DAC FS  = €585 + €966 = €1551
or the same using ADI-2 Pro FS R BE
  - Digiface USB (USB)       and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE  = €357 + €1739 = €2096
  - Babyface Pro FS (USB) and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE  = €698 + €1739 = €2437
  - RayDAT (PCIe)              and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE  = €585 + €1739 = €2324

FD10 wrote:

I would like to have the device with the best AD/DA conversion and headphone amplifier that is closest to the ADI-2 PRO.

You said you need a device that comes closest to the ADI-2 Pro, but you didn't mention the ADI-2 DAC.

I understood you that you preferred to use an ADI-2 FS for simplicity, but I can assure you that ADI-2 DAC and Pro are really great devices and there are only a few things to configure. When the setup is done, you only have to turn one volume knob, but you can enjoy all the great features that only these devices can offer you.

  • slow ramp-up of volume when plugging phones (DAC/Pro) or switching between channels (Pro)

  • dynamic loudness which is very useful when listening to background music, even during home office work

  • Auto Reflevel selection to automatically get the optimum Reference Level and highest SNR by simply turning the volume knob, works excellent in combination with dynamic loudness, etc

  • Makes quick Bass/Treble adjustments possible by using B/T knob as music material from 60's, 70's, 80's etc can be quite different ...

To get a quick idea what the differences of ADI-2 DAC/Pro are, please see this sticky:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 06#p165706

Only the units ADI-2 DAC FS and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE are based on the current AKM AK4493 converters

  • with slightly higher SNR values,

  • the new digital filter type SD LD (Short Delay Low Dispersion) and

  • allow the selection between different AD/DA filter types.

Only the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE supports four different reference levels which are optimized for studio use.

The final choice for a recording interface would depend on the connection possibilities of your computer (USB, TB, PCIe), you haven't reported anything about that yet and what else you want to do with the device.
It could even be that you would be best served with a UFX II or UFX+ alone.
That's why more information is needed about what you want to do with the equipment in order to give you the best possible advice.

This informaiton is intended to give you a 1st good overview.
If something should be unclear or if you have any question, please do not hesitate to ask.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by FD10 2021-04-25 17:40:09)

Re: AIO PRO vs BABYFACE PRO FS - ADC/DAC + HP AMP Comparison

Hello,

thank you for the feedback.

My initial situation is that I connect my microphone to my microphone preamplifier from which I go into my compressor and thus only need an AD conversion / line input.

After that I need a DA converter for Neumann monitoring system which consists of KH80 DSP near field monitors in combination with a KH750 DSP SUB.

The KH750 DSP Sub has AES3 IN/OUTPUT`S which are BNC (Digital: BNC (75 Ω): AES3; S/P-DIF), this should not be a problem with the AIO PRO using the appropriate adapter / plug, whereas with the BF PRO FS this is more difficult because I need a extra ADAT to AES Konverter.

It would be advantageous to connect the monitoring system via AES to avoid having to send the signal through the KH750 DSP conversion again, which would be the case if I were to connect it analogue.

Yes, I need at least the Digiface USB in addition to the ADI-2 FS in order to use TOTALMIX, that's why I have edited the post and am now only comparing the AIO PRO against the BF PRO FS.

The headphone output would be very important to me in comparison with the BF PRO FS, although it says the headphone output of the ADI-2 PRO, I assume that that of the AIO PRO should be better maybe?

I would use the AIO PRO in combination with the RME ARC as a monitor controller

Many thanks in advance

4 (edited by ramses 2021-04-25 19:29:52)

Re: AIO PRO vs BABYFACE PRO FS - ADC/DAC + HP AMP Comparison

If you want
- either BBF Pro FS or AIO Pro and
- to connect through AES then you have IMHO these possibilities

Option A) Babyface Pro FS based:
- BBF Pro FS                                 - https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_babyface_pro_fs.htm                    €698
- Mutec MC-1.1+ (AES splitter/converter) - https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_mc_11_a … verter.htm  €349
- Neutrik NADIT BNC-F (AES/EBU BNC Adapter) - https://www.thomann.de/de/neutrik_nadit_bnc_f.htm  €  53
Sub-Total:                    €1100
- Optional ADI-2 FS if you want it's phones outputs - https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_adi_2_fs.htm     €699
Total: €1100+€699 = €1799

Option B) HDSPe AIO Pro FS based:
- HDSPe AIO Pro FS                                           - https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_hdspe_aio_pro.htm   €729
- RME BO9632- XLRMKH Breakoutkabel - https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_bo9632_breakoutkabel.htm  €  79
- Neutrik NADIT BNC-F (AES/EBU BNC Adapter) - https://www.thomann.de/de/neutrik_nadit_bnc_f.htm    €  53
- ARC USB                                                          - https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_arc_usb.htm               €129
Total:                              €990

Notes:

  • Plus required XLR- and AES- cable (for compressor and to connect digitally to the subwoofers AES BNC input).

  • In the case of the BBF pro I propose the Mutec AES splitter/converter as I have this unit as well, its versatile and robust. There might be cheaper solutions, but then you have to look for yourself.

  • You need the optional breakout cable BO9632 for the AIO Pro FS to connect the compressor/preamp for the Mic

  • The AIO Pro might have already the desired AK4490 for phones, in this case I think you do not need an ADI-2 FS, to be checked, I am running out of time now, but I think this is a good basis for further investigation.

If you get the BBF Pro solution, then you can choose:
1. whether you want to have the AES splitter/converter near to you or to the subwoofer, simply choose longer or shorter TOSLINK or AES cable, e.g.:
    - Mutec TOSLINK cable 2m           - https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_optisches_kabel_2m.htm   €6,90
    - AES/EBU cable, 110 Ohm, 1,5m  - https://www.thomann.de/de/cae_29014_aesebu_kabel.htm  €11,90
2. whether you want the ADI-2 FS additionally because of it's phones outputs; then you need to place it between BBF Pro FS and the Mutec 1.1c (cabling: ADAT); AFAIR you can use the ADI-2 FS to listen to the audio stream through ADAT (check manual!).

Alternatives:
In that price range you could also consider UFX II or UFX+. The phones outputs are very good as well.

I hope I didn't overlook something...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: AIO PRO vs BABYFACE PRO FS - ADC/DAC + HP AMP Comparison

Hello thank you very much,

as far as I understand it, it is as follows:

ADC are AIO PRO as well as BF PRO FS very similar whereby the AIO PRO can +24dbu reference level.

DAC is way better on the AIO PRO.

Headphone amplifier is also better on the AIO PRO.

Best regards

Re: AIO PRO vs BABYFACE PRO FS - ADC/DAC + HP AMP Comparison

Its also worth to consult the manuals to compare some of the technical specs. RME lists technical data for line level ports and phones outputs separately, very thorough. From this you can also deduce some things.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: AIO PRO vs BABYFACE PRO FS - ADC/DAC + HP AMP Comparison

See chapter "technical specifications":

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/hdspeaiopro_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/hdspeaiopro_e.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/bface_pro_fs_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/bface_pro_fs_e.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2fs_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2fs_e.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dacr_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2dacr_e.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2profsr_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/adi2profsr_e.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/fface_ufxplus_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/download/fface_ufxplus_e.pdf

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: AIO PRO vs BABYFACE PRO FS - ADC/DAC + HP AMP Comparison

Hello ramses,

I now have the AIO Pro.

Thank you very much for all the information

Best regards

Re: AIO PRO vs BABYFACE PRO FS - ADC/DAC + HP AMP Comparison

Great, have fun and if you have a question, don't hesitate to ask.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13