• Registered: 2013-10-28
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Topic: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

What I mean is - can I assign a control to a specific channel (input 12 for example) and control it without regarding to banking by 8 channels?

I am trying to put together a studio monitor control GUI that needs to be able to mute specific inputs independently, toggle specific EQ's (for bass management), mute playbacks independently and control output volumes independently.

I have looked at the OSC implementation and it looks like it only works in banks of 8.

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

'Absolute' control is on our list for a later release.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Hopefully sooner than later. wink But any rough ETA for this?

And could you by any chance give us some info about what (if not everything) will be controllable with the 'absolute' control? And is this for OSC only, or midi too?

What I hope is that after the release I'd be able to have the opposite mute ganging via OSC or even midi.
So that I could mute an input in one submix while unmuting it in another submix with the same button. (using lemur or bome's midi translator editing)

And how about faders.. Do we get the absolute control for all inputs in all submixes? So that I'd even be able to overcome the fader group limitations of TMFX by using OSC (lemur) or bome's to mirror input fader level to two submixes simultaneously?

Am I hoping for too much or are these something that will one day be possible?


Thank you very much for any pre-release info you can share.

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic
  • From: Provence
  • Registered: 2012-03-10
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Hurrah! I hope that it will be in MIDI, what will allow me to have really a FFUCX pilotable by the DAW.
Regards
Philippe HELARD
Studio Canne et Bambou

Celtine's Website

5 Reply by MC

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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

My answer referred to OSC. No such plans for MIDI.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Provence
  • Registered: 2012-03-10
  • Posts: 16

Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Hello

Is this clear answer I was expecting since months.
I am very disappointed. I will therefore be obliged to resell my FFUCX (after having sold my FFUC), and return to fully controllable MIDI hardware (Yamaha O1V96 + ADAT card). 
I know that the OSC is the future of the MIDI, but few DAW support it.

Too bad.

Regards
Philippe HELARD
Studio Canne et Bambou

Celtine's Website

  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Any news on global OSC control, and submix independent mute?

BTW, bome's midi translator will get OSC support later, so we might be able to easily translate midi to OSC with versatile settings.
(Don't know when and how it will work of course)

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  • ebulb
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

i am also interested to hear about global OSC support..

  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Bbump. Is this perhaps planned for TMFX 1.0? Or do you have any new information about global OSC?

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic
  • Registered: 2012-06-23
  • Posts: 4

Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Hi there,

are there any updates on free control of TMFX submixes via OSC or MIDI? Now that the Fireface 802 is out this is the only missing feature that stops me from buying one...

Best, Sebastian

  • Registered: 2011-01-08
  • Posts: 38

Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Bump for an update 5 years (!) later. Just getting into some hardware control of my beloved UFX and would love absolute control of any input/playback to any submix at any time.

  • Registered: 2018-12-21
  • Posts: 322

Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

maybe check if your use case might already be possible, i am using max sending osc to total mix and i somehow managed to control a lot of individual faders in total mix by using several osc addresses/channels (I think up to 4 are possible with total mix) and also automatically switching banks back and forth.

  • Registered: 2011-01-08
  • Posts: 38

Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Cool! Thanks for the idea didn't even consider this. Tested it out and it helps, but doesn't quite get 100% there. While it definitely allows you to control multiple submixes simultaneously, it doesn't quite address switching rows. This still requires sending a /1/busXYZ message, which means you can't control an input fader and a playback fader simultaneously from the same OSC port. I guess you could just extend this approach to use a separate OSC channel for each submix/row combination. Not completely flexible but could be just enough for what I need.

Seems like OSC is perfect for effectively infinite fader control, so would love to see native absolute addressing of each TMFX fader via OSC added smile

14 Reply by bsfreq (edited by bsfreq 2019-08-22 13:18:53)

  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Yes, it has certainly been a while. So please RME, do you have anything new to share with us about the global OSC-control?

I'm using multiple midi- and OSC-controllers, and atm I'm forced to use sketchy midi-programming and submix switching to keep everything in sync. Global OSC would be a kick-ass feature and would simplify everything so much!
Another thing that would be very useful is the output/ submix mirroring of faders only, without the solo states.
I'm able to keep faders in sync with osculator and multiple OSC ports, but this is of course as limited as the number of OSC controllers, and would be much more reliably handled by TMFX, as the mirroring of faders already works so well.

Thanks again for any new info!

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic
  • Registered: 2019-09-10
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

OMG this! So much this!
Global OSC will totally open up a world of possibilities.

Hardware mixer-like, but still customizable control layouts with multiple aux send knobs without switching submixes,
Keeping all faders and knobs in sync with feedback from different TMFX submixes simultaneously,
Daw automation of all the parameters, and so much more..

When is the release planned? I cannot wait!

  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Yep, I really hope RME won’t let this one slide for too much longer. 
They've probably got a lot of things going on, and global OSC-control might not be at the top of their list. However, this would be a HUGE feature for many.

I've recommended RME gear to everyone asking for advice when buying audio interfaces. At least a couple of dozen of my friends and colleagues have ended up buying RME interfaces because I've convinced them to. Of course I don't consider this my merit, but one of RME's due to the quality and support of their gear being totally worth the praise. At the same time I've also explained the shortcomings and what would be possible by opening the remote functionality a little more.

I already know many music software-oriented people that would buy RME interfaces the very second global OSC was released, so I speak out for them as well. Not every potential buyer is shouting out on these forums for something that might be. Still, there really aren't alternatives for the kind of feature palette that TMFX with its flexible routings along with global OSC control would provide.

I root for RME and hope they can come out with an update.

All the best!

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic
  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Any progress on this one?

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  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

I guess it's time for my yearly inquiry..

Was this idea abandoned entirely, or is there still hope for global OSC?

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic
  • Registered: 2021-11-25
  • Posts: 4

Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

MC wrote:

'Absolute' control is on our list for a later release.

Hi Matthias

I am a 20 year (next year) RME customer, who currently owns a HDSPe MADI and a MADI FX PCIe and 3 x ADI-648's. I am doing some really interesting stuff with ADI-648's, Expert Sleepers products, NI Reaktor Blocks, Eurorack and of course RME MADI/ADAT.

I have been waiting for years for you guys to re-write the OSC implementation as a proper full OSC spec, currently it looks like you guys have just wrapped the Mackie code with an OSC to MCU wrapper/bridge within TM FX. I know you have decided to spend engineering cycles on developing TM Remote, but there are a lot of customers and use cases that need a proper OSC implementation. For example, I am currently wanting to control TM FX via OSC via REAKTOR. Having to select a submix bus and change values to achieve routing/level control is tricky. I can order events on knob movements and interject a submix select message in between every knob value change (although this is hideous) and it works, but reloading a patch is a lot more tricky given the very serial nature of the submix select process. If I could address a fader within a submix directly as a single OSC string (hypothetical eg /submix1/inputvolume0 or /submix2/playbackvolume11 etc), it would be a lot simpler and also allow for recall of patching/routing as I change between different patches.

A possible work around would be if I could trigger the saving of snapshots and workspaces via OSC and just recall a snapshot and/or workspace on REAKTOR preset load.

Please can you update this thread with an official statement from RME on what the plan is for proper OSC support like proposed above or could you maybe consider adding snapshot/workspace saving via OSC?

Thanks in advance

Kevin

20 Reply by MC

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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

Proper is thwe wrong word. Full OSC control as desired here will cause several performance and resource issues. Nevertheless we hvae plans to do it, but in the last years several other topics had higher priority, and since two years we (like anyone else) had to devote all our time to be able to continue manufacturing existing products. The current crisis takes a high toll, and that will continue for some time. So don't expect any change in OSC within the next months.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

21 Reply by indigoskywalker (edited by indigoskywalker 2021-11-26 12:04:45)

  • Registered: 2021-11-25
  • Posts: 4

Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

MC wrote:

Proper is thwe wrong word. Full OSC control as desired here will cause several performance and resource issues. Nevertheless we hvae plans to do it, but in the last years several other topics had higher priority, and since two years we (like anyone else) had to devote all our time to be able to continue manufacturing existing products. The current crisis takes a high toll, and that will continue for some time. So don't expect any change in OSC within the next months.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across rude, should have said full instead of proper. I am glad to hear that this is still on the road map.

What are the performance and resource issues you foresee?

  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

MC wrote:

Proper is thwe wrong word. Full OSC control as desired here will cause several performance and resource issues. Nevertheless we hvae plans to do it, but in the last years several other topics had higher priority, and since two years we (like anyone else) had to devote all our time to be able to continue manufacturing existing products. The current crisis takes a high toll, and that will continue for some time. So don't expect any change in OSC within the next months.

I'm very glad to hear that global OSC is still in the works. I can also appreciate that sending out (and receiving) all the data of interfaces with hundreds of channels and submixes can indeed add up to eating a lot of resources. Perhaps it would be useful to have an option to choose which submixes are included in global OSC too. Perhaps lock submixes to OSC addresses /submix1, /submix2 etc, and have TMFX listen and receive commands to all submixes at all times, but enable two way OSC per submix from TMFX options to save resources?
Or to keeps things as light as possible, would it be too much work to add a table with all submixes and all their OSC addresses with option to enable/disable per submix and input / address? We could enable only the addresses we need per submix..

Personally I don't need to access ALL of the submixes simultaneously, but be able to control a few submixes in sync / partly in sync without switching between them.. I think using global OSC to control and receive every input from every submix simultaneously is an extremely rare use case, especially with the larger channel count interfaces. However, we still need global OSC for flexibility.

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic
  • Registered: 2021-11-25
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

bsfreq wrote:
MC wrote:

Proper is the wrong word. Full OSC control as desired here will cause several performance and resource issues. Nevertheless we have plans to do it, but in the last years several other topics had higher priority, and since two years we (like anyone else) had to devote all our time to be able to continue manufacturing existing products. The current crisis takes a high toll, and that will continue for some time. So don't expect any change in OSC within the next months.

I'm very glad to hear that global OSC is still in the works. I can also appreciate that sending out (and receiving) all the data of interfaces with hundreds of channels and submixes can indeed add up to eating a lot of resources. Perhaps it would be useful to have an option to choose which submixes are included in global OSC too. Perhaps lock submixes to OSC addresses /submix1, /submix2 etc, and have TMFX listen and receive commands to all submixes at all times, but enable two way OSC per submix from TMFX options to save resources?
Or to keeps things as light as possible, would it be too much work to add a table with all submixes and all their OSC addresses with option to enable/disable per submix and input / address? We could enable only the addresses we need per submix..

Personally I don't need to access ALL of the submixes simultaneously, but be able to control a few submixes in sync / partly in sync without switching between them.. I think using global OSC to control and receive every input from every submix simultaneously is an extremely rare use case, especially with the larger channel count interfaces. However, we still need global OSC for flexibility.

But updates are only sent when things change... Would be nice to know what is meant by resources/overhead, is this for Totalmix and host ram/cpu or a limitation of FPGA resources?

  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

indigoskywalker wrote:

But updates are only sent when things change... Would be nice to know what is meant by resources/overhead, is this for Totalmix and host ram/cpu or a limitation of FPGA resources?

All levels are also sent out at once when opening TMFX or enabling OSC control. For instance, with Fireface UFX+ it's possible to have 94 independent mono submixes, and in this case the amount of OSC data sent out would be almost 100 times larger than with the current implementation. Then there's Madiface XT with 394 channels, Digiface Dante with 256 etc..
Of course I have no idea how things are handed under the hood so I agree, would be nice to know where this limitation comes from.

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic
  • Registered: 2021-11-25
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

bsfreq wrote:
indigoskywalker wrote:

But updates are only sent when things change... Would be nice to know what is meant by resources/overhead, is this for Totalmix and host ram/cpu or a limitation of FPGA resources?

All levels are also sent out at once when opening TMFX or enabling OSC control. For instance, with Fireface UFX+ it's possible to have 94 independent mono submixes, and in this case the amount of OSC data sent out would be almost 100 times larger than with the current implementation. Then there's Madiface XT with 394 channels, Digiface Dante with 256 etc..
Of course I have no idea how things are handed under the hood so I agree, would be nice to know where this limitation comes from.

If the data is available to TotalmixFX, which it is with meters updated in realtime and totalmixfx can change snapshots of the complete status of all channels, then it will probably be ok. I guess RME are considering worse case scenarios, where a user might want to automate 100-200+ channels at once via OSC.

For my use case, I would want to automate a few channels at a time in realtime, but need to recall snapshots of the complete mixer (394 channels) via OSC.

  • bsfreq
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Re: Is absolute control available with OSC or Midi?

MC wrote:

Nevertheless we hvae plans to do it, but in the last years several other topics had higher priority, and since two years we (like anyone else) had to devote all our time to be able to continue manufacturing existing products. The current crisis takes a high toll, and that will continue for some time. So don't expect any change in OSC within the next months.

Have you by any chance had time to work on global OSC alongside other updates?
Thanks again for any word..

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic