1 (edited by anttipi 2021-12-13 11:27:18)

Topic: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Just wondering because this is a computer of sorts after all:

Is it 100% safe practice to switch off (and on) the ADI-2 DAC from the power strip main switch? For example, is there a risk of wiping all settings, increased strain to electrical components etc.?

So far, the only issue has been lost USB connection, when a timer switched off the power strip mid-playback. After rebooting the PC source, all was back to normal.

I'm controlling my audio setup remotely via wifi from another floor, so manually turning the unit off/on is impractical.

In future ADI versions, it would be neat to have wifi with wake-on-lan ability, to complement auto shutdown.

2 (edited by ramses 2021-12-13 11:53:00)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

No issues so far since 20y and since 7y using RME equipment.
I am turning on and off computer and recording equipment with one powerstrip: pc, monitor, ufx+, adi-2 pro, active monitors. Sometimes including XTC and 12Mic.
I use quality powerstrips from brennenstuhl like this one with mains filter and overvoltage protection. Using those also for High End HiFi and other multimedia devices and everything around my guitar amp (multi effects, ...): https://www.amazon.de/Brennenstuhl-Prem … mp;sr=8-10

Of course, it should be noted that the inrush current should not become too high (depending on type and number of devices) so that neither the power strip nor the socket or even the entire circuit is overloaded. And not just simply use a slow fuse in case the fuse blows too often. When in doubt, involve a good electrician.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Thanks for the tip! I currently have the power strip inserted into a separate surge protector, which is kind of a clumsy solution.

The 6-piece Brennenstuhl seems to be on sale on Amazon de. Would you happen to know what exactly is the difference between the normal 6-piece and the "2x 3, 1 A" version?

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

anttipi wrote:

Thanks for the tip! I currently have the power strip inserted into a separate surge protector, which is kind of a clumsy solution.

The 6-piece Brennenstuhl seems to be on sale on Amazon de. Would you happen to know what exactly is the difference between the normal 6-piece and the "2x 3, 1 A" version?

Please provide the two links, I have only a smartphone with me.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

anttipi wrote:

Just wondering because this is a computer of sorts after all

It is, but the main difference is that unlike a modern desktop/laptop it doesn't rely on a disk drive to save its settings and doesn't constantly save things to disk. But a DAC like this saves in a more deterministic way, and has a lot less things to save, so it's likely (not 100% sure though because I don't know for sure not knowing the internals) that even if you manage to cut the power in the middle of saving it would still not corrupt settings; unlike for a PC.

Wrt electrical strain: that's something else, but I don't see how a properly designed power supply could cause harm here. I don't really know though if number of power cycles affects electronics lifetime.

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Anttipi,

I've been using a Switching device (multiple programmable outlets, over/undervolt protection, etc) much like Ramses for a long time, and have yet to encounter any sort of difficulty. 

One Button does it all, and the whole kit, and kaboodle springs to life.

It's the only way to fly!  smile

Recommended.


Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

7 (edited by KaiS 2021-12-13 13:04:32)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

anttipi wrote:

Is it 100% safe practice to switch off (and on) the ADI-2 DAC from the power strip main switch? For example, is there a risk of wiping all settings, increased strain to electrical components etc.?

...

I'm controlling my audio setup remotely via wifi from another floor, so manually turning the unit off/on is impractical.

If you switch your whole setup at once, a surge and overvoltage protection of any kind is mandatory.
Like the powerstrip with protection mentioned above:

https://www.amazon.de/Brennenstuhl-Prem … mp;sr=8-10
Locate it like this:
Line power outlet -> remote switch -> protected powerstrip -> audio system.

Else the counter- or back-EMF of the connected devices CAN cause higher failure rates in your system.

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Common sense plays a role.

In the same way that a Doctor would not have an MRI machine running on the same outlet as an EKG.

For switching the plethora of low power devices in an audio system, the above mentioned power strip is fine.  Deal with huge amplifiers seperately.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

KaiS wrote:

If you switch your whole setup at once, a surge and overvoltage protection of any kind is mandatory.

Else the counter- or back-EMF of the connected devices CAN cause higher failure rates in your system.

Can you explain this more in detail, and is this an actual issue in a 'normal' modernish audio system with decent devices (where you'd think that the devices themselves already have overvoltage protection, and if they'd be prone to producing back-EMF they'd guard against that as well)?

Also curious: the powerstrip just mentions a 10A fuse. Is that the overvoltage protection or is there more to it?

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

ramses wrote:
anttipi wrote:

Thanks for the tip! I currently have the power strip inserted into a separate surge protector, which is kind of a clumsy solution.

The 6-piece Brennenstuhl seems to be on sale on Amazon de. Would you happen to know what exactly is the difference between the normal 6-piece and the "2x 3, 1 A" version?

Please provide the two links, I have only a smartphone with me.

Never mind, the difference was apparently just that the other had USB ports (which I don't need).

I just ordered this one from Amazon: https://www.brennenstuhl.com/en-SI/prod … vv-f-3g1-5

11 (edited by beat8000 2021-12-13 13:59:28)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

I had a problem with a special Hifi surge protector. It killed the relais of my Krell power amp twice because it needed several on-off trials in a short time to switch on the device.

Win10 Pro, ADI-2 Pro, Basis 1, Adam A3X; RL 906; Grace M902B, Glockenklang Bugatti, Strauss SE-NF-3

12 (edited by Curt962 2021-12-13 14:09:56)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Beat,

Yep. A big Krell could be electrically challenging to the Utility Company!  A small low current relay wouldn't stand a chance.

I had Krell Monoblocks years ago.  You could heat a house with them, but it was nice.  You could listen to an Album all warm, and cozy while waiting for the enormous electric bill to arrive in the mail.   

Memories!  smile

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

13 (edited by KaiS 2021-12-13 14:56:56)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

beat8000 wrote:

I had a problem with a special Hifi surge protector. It killed the relais of my Krell power amp twice because it needed several on-off trials in a short time to switch on the device.

This probably was an inrush current limiter, a completely different thing, technically.
If something behaves strange, better not use it.

An overvoltage protection is quasi “invisible” to the devices connected, doesn’t change their behavior and doesn’t cause such effects.

eleweit wrote:
KaiS wrote:

If you switch your whole setup at once, a surge and overvoltage protection of any kind is mandatory.

Else the counter- or back-EMF of the connected devices CAN cause higher failure rates in your system.

Can you explain this more in detail, and is this an actual issue in a 'normal' modernish audio system with decent devices (where you'd think that the devices themselves already have overvoltage protection, and if they'd be prone to producing back-EMF they'd guard against that as well)?

Also curious: the powerstrip just mentions a 10A fuse. Is that the overvoltage protection or is there more to it?

An overvoltage protection is advisable for ALL types of electronics that cost more than a few bucks.
Overvoltages come from everywhere, even outside your house:
Your neighbors washing machine, a lightning strike, your power plant ...

On top of this, your case is special and strongly asks for a protection, as a lot of devices are switched at the same time, producing high voltage spikes for sure.
Please refer to the mentioned connection order for the protection to be effective.

If the protection saved a single repair it already paid off.

And no, a fuse isn’t an overvoltage protection, it only breaks when it’s too late, just to prevent a fire (if properly dimensioned).
The 10 A fuse secures the protector from overloading current.
Overvoltage protection uses varistors and sometimes spark gaps.

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Indeed KaiS.  The Fire Department is never a Welcome Guest.

Fuses are..."last resort" protection.

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

15 (edited by anttipi 2021-12-13 15:14:33)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Hmm, should I insert an additional residual current device in front of the surge protector power striip?

EDIT: I assume not because the 16 A fuse is apparently there to prevent electric shock (?).

16 (edited by Curt962 2021-12-13 16:21:50)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

There IS such a thing as "needless over-complication"

No currently UL Listed device sold in the US receives certification if it presents an electrical hazard to the user in it's intended use.  Add-on "Rube Goldberg Signature" Gadgets that allegedly "prevent" something are likely Baloney.   If you can't plug it straight into the outlet without a bunch of Engineering Gymnastics it's Junk.  Don't buy it.

Underwriters Laboratory (UL) is Punishing in it's tests, and subjects the device under test to the most gruesome situations that the allegedly "advanced" user might subject the device to.  wink

(Sure!  I'm taking my 120v Waffle Maker into the Shower with me to save time!)

Zzzzzt!   Another Darwin Award Candidate...  sad

In a normal world...

A $10 power strip would be sufficient for any of our lo-power devices.  A 440v Ferris Wheel at a Carnival will require more. wink

Leave it alone.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Curt962 wrote:

There IS such a thing as "needless over-complication"

...

Leave it alone.

Curt

Got it... This is getting expensive already, with an Intona USB Isolator on its way in the mail. smile

18 (edited by Curt962 2021-12-13 16:50:05)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Anttipi...

Here we go again..

USB Isolators should not be needed.  In my opinion, gadgets such as this are little more than Dopamines for Audiophiles who need these routine, and short-term emotionally uplifting treatments to be happy.

My RME is connected via USB straight to my RPI4, and I cannot for the life of me find a reason to try and "improve" upon a noiseless, bit perfect connection. wink

Try to hear me.  I've been there!  wink

Best to You in a Dongle-Free World!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

anttipi wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

There IS such a thing as "needless over-complication"

...

Leave it alone.

Curt

Got it... This is getting expensive already, with an Intona USB Isolator on its way in the mail. smile

For this purpose I'm using my KVM switch. It also allows to play the music from different PCs with the connected ADI-2 Pro.

Win10 Pro, ADI-2 Pro, Basis 1, Adam A3X; RL 906; Grace M902B, Glockenklang Bugatti, Strauss SE-NF-3

20 (edited by Curt962 2021-12-13 17:15:29)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

https://i.ibb.co/PxdkrtN/IMG-20211213-111050-966.jpg

This is why I am where I am.

How do you keep the user from sticking his tongue in the mains outlet?   Grab a Cold Water Pipe to finish the Job!  big_smile

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Curt962 wrote:

https://i.ibb.co/PxdkrtN/IMG-20211213-111050-966.jpg

This is why I am where I am.

How do you keep the user from sticking his tongue in the mains outlet?   Grab a Cold Water Pipe to finish the Job!  big_smile

big_smile

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

MC said the pre-test firmware will have the Auto Stand by function.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Johannes AU wrote:

MC said the pre-test firmware will have the Auto Stand by function.

Sure, but powering it back on from another floor will be the "issue".

And regarding USB isolators... Sure, if my amp had balanced inputs, perhaps the ground loop wouldn't exist. As it stands, the PC's USB line emits a background soundtrack akin to Gremlins going berserk in the night. They even dance to the rhythm of my mouse movements!

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Ant,

Seems your PC is Borked.  Fix that, as it's really not an RME issue. wink

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

25 (edited by anttipi 2021-12-14 08:38:09)

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Hardly borked. Just a ground loop that needs to be dealt with. I have the same issue in my studio and another PC (with RME AIO), except that there I can use balanced connections to fix it.

I never meant to imply it's an RME issue. I'm not expecting the input on the ADI to be galvanically isolated.

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

Didi you check the Ethernet cable, disconnect?

If ground loop problems are gone while disconnected, use/try UTP Ethernet cables (Unshielded Twisted Pair).
For short distances UTP cable are sufficient and have solved ground loop problems in many cases.

Just an idea.

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

bejoro wrote:

Didi you check the Ethernet cable, disconnect?

If ground loop problems are gone while disconnected, use/try UTP Ethernet cables (Unshielded Twisted Pair).
For short distances UTP cable are sufficient and have solved ground loop problems in many cases.

Just an idea.

Yes, I've systematically narrowed it down to the noisy USB connection.

Re: Is it 100% safe to switch off from the power strip?

I received the Intona 1kVRMS USB isolator yesterday. As also reported by Matthias (among others), works without hiccups with the ADI-2 DAC. Zero noise via the USB cable now.