• Registered: 2013-02-20
  • Posts: 4

Topic: Using the UCX AD/DA converters for mastering with hardware?

Hello all!

Would the UCX's built in converters be good enough for me to use outboard hardware units for mastering?

I have been using the UCX since 2013 (8 years) for my music production and it honestly has been one of the best purchases I made as far as sound quality is concerned. Now I am at the point of wanting moving into engineering as a career and I am currently studying a course to achieve this.

I have been mastering ITB for the longest time and now want to expand that to some hardware units such as the SSL fusion or Neve Portico II for example. I actually asked this question to David Gnozzi at MixBusTV and he replied with this video: https://youtu.be/F43d0O8buyo?t=58
TLDR is he said that there are good options for colour boxes but there is no point buying those things unless you have a good way to capture those units, and also a way to monitor them with good speakers and acoustics etc.

I will admit that I have very little acoustic treatment right now but this will be getting sorted in the near future. I currently use the Adam A77x's as my monitoring speakers on heavy isolation stands. They are not the super high tier monitors but they are also not budget tier either and have served me well for the last 6 years+.
I have also been looking at the ADI-2 FS as a possible upgrade the UCX, if that's needed at all? And if it is worth doing would I then just use the UCX as the I/O and then do the conversion on the ADI-2 FS?

So, again, my question is that would the UCX's converters be ok for this kind of application?

Thanks in advance smile

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
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  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,863

Re: Using the UCX AD/DA converters for mastering with hardware?

I think you should make your own experience and judgements.

You will buy now analog outboard mastering equiptment. There you manipulate / shape the sound.

The AD conversion I do not regard as that critial because when looking at the technical data, then even the quite dated UCS has even higher SNR and lower THD compared to the analog SSL fusion. So pls check the manuals ....

Than watch this Youtube video from a mastering engineer. You find it in this blog article, the "converter shootout":
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ses-EN-DE/

ADI-2 Pro FS being compared with two pure mastering grade AD converter from Lavry and Crane Song. The ADI-2 Pro FS costs around €1750, the Lavry €8000.

Note: you can download the three original wav files from AD conversion of all three devices (as Youtube changes / reduces sound) and then compare on your own. The differences are IMHO only subtle.

The mastering engineer talks about his preference for the ADI-2 Pro FS for certain music material of he needs a tight, clean bass. So if there is even a certain preference for certain tasks, the ADI-2 Pro can't be that bad.

So what does this tell you ? ... €6000 difference in price but only subtle nuances in sound ....
Maybe the difference between UCX and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE is also not that big ?!

Get an ADI-2 Pro FS and check it out. Perform a blind or even double blind test with the help of a friend.
Can you you clearly distinguish the AD conversion results between UCX and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE or not ?!
Olease find it out on your own in your room.

This other guy in the video that you mentioned may have reasons, why he makes only such general claims, that every component in the mastering chain needs to have mastering grade quality. Sure, not a bad strategy. But one of the main reasons could simply be, that he also need to impress customers to have the proper devices, to get certain projects.

I think the external analog mastering devices are more important to get the sound / the results that you want, compared to A/D conversion which "only" needs to be transparent and add no noise.

If you want the ADI-2 Pro later for whatever reason, then you can keep the UCX to have a device with TM FX in your setup.

The ADI-2 Pro FS R BE can nicely be integrated in your environment.
See: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

The ADI-2 Pro's advantages: pls have a look into this posting from today: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 77#p180277

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2013-02-20
  • Posts: 4

Re: Using the UCX AD/DA converters for mastering with hardware?

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I was talking about the RME ADI-2 FS here:
https://www.rme-audio.de/ADI-2-FS.html
Which is just the converters of the pro and I can get that for about £600 in the UK, I don't really need any of the extra features of the pro. I saw the video you were talking about too and thought if it's good for him then good for me right? For £600 seems good option.
Getting the SSL fusion is the number 1 thing that I want for colouring the sound though.

So the UCX will be just fine for capturing you are saying?

Thanks smile

4 Reply by Topanga_Dreams (edited by Topanga_Dreams 2021-12-30 06:54:35)

  • Registered: 2021-12-21
  • Posts: 33

Re: Using the UCX AD/DA converters for mastering with hardware?

Psyder wrote:

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I was talking about the RME ADI-2 FS here:
https://www.rme-audio.de/ADI-2-FS.html
Which is just the converters of the pro and I can get that for about £600 in the UK, I don't really need any of the extra features of the pro. I saw the video you were talking about too and thought if it's good for him then good for me right? For £600 seems good option.
Getting the SSL fusion is the number 1 thing that I want for colouring the sound though.

So the UCX will be just fine for capturing you are saying?

Thanks smile

Hi,

I would suggest looking at your home studio. Where are the weak spots? If you consider taking a big step upward with one device, it will not benefit you as you might hope. Why? Because there might be some weak points in your studio set up, that will limit the upgrade in a better converter.

Mastering is a fine art, that means the room in which you master is essential, in other words acoustic treatment of the room.

Your second investment might be in upgrading your Adams monitor speakers and headphones.

Your third investment might be a High End Mastering Converter and/or other hardware. But you can also master completely in the box (that’s why I would rank a converter before other hardware, in other words, your monitoring is more important than other outboard gear). But that’s just my five cents.

Here is a short but very informative video regarding the RME ADI-2 PRO FS R and the points mentioned above.

https://youtu.be/F4-DKB4yQ50

I hope that helps.

But more import than questions about new converters & co are experience and skills of the mastering engineer IMO.

By the way, I am just a hobby musician and doing my first steps in recording, producing…But I had to learn the hard way and wished I’d come across RME earlier…

Mac Mini M2 Pro 16GB RAM - RME FIREFACE 802 - LOGIC PRO
  • Registered: 2013-02-20
  • Posts: 4

Re: Using the UCX AD/DA converters for mastering with hardware?

Topanga_Dreams wrote:
Psyder wrote:

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I was talking about the RME ADI-2 FS here:
https://www.rme-audio.de/ADI-2-FS.html
Which is just the converters of the pro and I can get that for about £600 in the UK, I don't really need any of the extra features of the pro. I saw the video you were talking about too and thought if it's good for him then good for me right? For £600 seems good option.
Getting the SSL fusion is the number 1 thing that I want for colouring the sound though.

So the UCX will be just fine for capturing you are saying?

Thanks smile

Hi,

I would suggest looking at your home studio. Where are the weak spots? If you consider taking a big step upward with one device, it will not benefit you as you might hope. Why? Because there might be some weak points in your studio set up, that will limit the upgrade in a better converter.

Mastering is a fine art, that means the room in which you master is essential, in other words acoustic treatment of the room.

Your second investment might be in upgrading your Adams monitor speakers and headphones.

Your third investment might be a High End Mastering Converter and/or other hardware. But you can also master completely in the box (that’s why I would rank a converter before other hardware, in other words, your monitoring is more important than other outboard gear). But that’s just my five cents.

Here is a short but very informative video regarding the RME ADI-2 PRO FS R and the points mentioned above.

https://youtu.be/F4-DKB4yQ50

I hope that helps.

But more import than questions about new converters & co are experience and skills of the mastering engineer IMO.

By the way, I am just a hobby musician and doing my first steps in recording, producing…But I had to learn the hard way and wished I’d come across RME earlier…

Thanks for your input it was helpful.

The treatment in the room has already been planned to happen before anything else of course, I know it's the number one thing people should do and often over look. I wish I did it at the beginning when I started producing 11 years ago! I am just at the stage of working out what comes next after that which you touched on with your step process.

But my ultimate question was more, is the UCX's AD/DA roundtrip good enough to capture hardware through?...the answer seems more or less a yes, but with the points mentioned above for prioritising upgrades.

I know enough to do ITB stuff but not everything, this is why I am in the process of studying engineering at Uni and I have hopefully have an intern slot with a mastering studio next year. Best of luck with your ventures!

Thanks again

  • Registered: 2021-12-21
  • Posts: 33

Re: Using the UCX AD/DA converters for mastering with hardware?

Psyder wrote:
Topanga_Dreams wrote:
Psyder wrote:

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I was talking about the RME ADI-2 FS here:
https://www.rme-audio.de/ADI-2-FS.html
Which is just the converters of the pro and I can get that for about £600 in the UK, I don't really need any of the extra features of the pro. I saw the video you were talking about too and thought if it's good for him then good for me right? For £600 seems good option.
Getting the SSL fusion is the number 1 thing that I want for colouring the sound though.

So the UCX will be just fine for capturing you are saying?

Thanks smile

Hi,

I would suggest looking at your home studio. Where are the weak spots? If you consider taking a big step upward with one device, it will not benefit you as you might hope. Why? Because there might be some weak points in your studio set up, that will limit the upgrade in a better converter.

Mastering is a fine art, that means the room in which you master is essential, in other words acoustic treatment of the room.

Your second investment might be in upgrading your Adams monitor speakers and headphones.

Your third investment might be a High End Mastering Converter and/or other hardware. But you can also master completely in the box (that’s why I would rank a converter before other hardware, in other words, your monitoring is more important than other outboard gear). But that’s just my five cents.

Here is a short but very informative video regarding the RME ADI-2 PRO FS R and the points mentioned above.

https://youtu.be/F4-DKB4yQ50

I hope that helps.

But more import than questions about new converters & co are experience and skills of the mastering engineer IMO.

By the way, I am just a hobby musician and doing my first steps in recording, producing…But I had to learn the hard way and wished I’d come across RME earlier…

Thanks for your input it was helpful.

The treatment in the room has already been planned to happen before anything else of course, I know it's the number one thing people should do and often over look. I wish I did it at the beginning when I started producing 11 years ago! I am just at the stage of working out what comes next after that which you touched on with your step process.

But my ultimate question was more, is the UCX's AD/DA roundtrip good enough to capture hardware through?...the answer seems more or less a yes, but with the points mentioned above for prioritising upgrades.

I know enough to do ITB stuff but not everything, this is why I am in the process of studying engineering at Uni and I have hopefully have an intern slot with a mastering studio next year. Best of luck with your ventures!

Thanks again

You’re welcome, wishing you all the best for your musical career!
Yes, the UCX should be able to that, and maybe better than some other well-known brands.

I tried a lot of hardware and spend way too much money on equipment the last two years…now, I did some room treatment and have a set up that fits together (room, speakers, interface).

The ADI-2 will come, when I have more experience and did a further upgrade into my room acoustics and monitors.

Happy new year!

Mac Mini M2 Pro 16GB RAM - RME FIREFACE 802 - LOGIC PRO