Topic: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

I want to use PH 3/4 of ADI-2 Pro as a mono line output.
I had received already warnings with overload/short detected.

The manual specifies in Section 21.4:

"In case the output should operate as line output, an adapter TRS plug to RCA phono plugs,
or TRS plug to TS plug is required".

The manual specifies in Section 34.24:

"How do I connect the device to my other devices that have only RCA?
By a simple adapter mono 6.35 mm to RCA (also called Phono and Cinch).
The adapters are plugged into the rear input and outputs - done."

The manual does not tell which adapters can be used for the front outputs PH1/2 and PH3/4.

Option 1: Stereo Jack to RCA adapter. This adapter will usually short tip and ring (T and R of TRS), therefore creating a short between left and right channel.

Option 2: Mono Jack to RCA adapter (as shown in Section 34.24 of the manual). This adapter will short ring and sleeve (R and S of TRS), therefore shorting the right channel to ground.

Maybe option 2 is a valid configuration when choosing the output PH3/4 mono on left channel only?

2

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

> "In case the output should operate as line output, an adapter TRS plug to RCA phono plugs,
or TRS plug to TS plug is required".

The manual shows a graphic/drawing of the required cable just beside that text! As it shows a photo of the rear adapter.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

Thank you, you are right!
I guess that means one should not plug in the mono jack adapters shown in Section 34.24 for the front PH outputs because that creates a short for the right channel. For the rear outputs it seems that these mono jack adapters are ok.

4 (edited by KaiS 2022-01-23 14:01:23)

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

Quick and dirty, if no other cable is at hand and you’re urged to use PH3/4:

• In I/O / Phones Out 3/4 / Settings / set: “Mono: Mono To Left”.

• Now right channel does not carry a signal and you can use a Mono TS 6.3 mm plug without shorting the right output signal.


ASAP get a cable according to manual page 71 and replace the makeshift solution
Keep the I/O setting from above to get a true mono signal.

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

Thank you very much, that makes it clear to me on how to proceed.
Maybe that subtle but important difference between outputs at the rear and outputs in front could also be mentioned in the manual?
The manual explains already a lot of details, I am happy to read and learn from the manual.

6

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

Quote: By a simple adapter mono 6.35 mm to RCA (also called Phono and Cinch). The adapters are plugged into the rear inputs and outputs - done.

You seem to have overlooked the word 'rear'. The descriptions in the manual are 100% correct and on the point. They are already separate for front and rear outputs.

If you plug this mono adapter into the front outputs all you get is a short circuit warning - no harm done.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

7 (edited by KaiS 2022-01-24 06:54:45)

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

rbachl wrote:

Maybe that subtle but important difference between outputs at the rear and outputs in front could also be mentioned in the manual?
The manual explains already a lot of details, I am happy to read and learn from the manual.

It‘s all there, in full detail, i.e. manual page 67:
“ 1/2 TRS (rear)
Output: 6.3 mm TRS jack, impedance balanced”

Of course one needs some technical background, that has no space in the already very comprehensive user manual, to understand what that means.
Or you have to Google it:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi … -balancing
https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/styles/news_large/s3/imagelibrary/Q/QA-04d-HSrULEtq6sE.0_gvvDaaY5B0Vb.uexZ3.jpg
Impedance-balanced Send: Increasingly, manufacturers are using impedance-balanced outputs. The signal is still being transmitted differentially, but only the hot wire carries the (full level) signal. The cold wire is arranged to have the same impedance to ground to ensure proper common-mode rejection. This approach has fewer components and so is cheaper to implement, but it also ensures the correct signal levels are maintained regardless of whether the destination is balanced or unbalanced.

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

Thank you for the replies and the good discussion.

@MC: Yes, the manual is correct, it is all there. But for the user it is difficult to see this difference between 1/2 TRS at the rear and 1/2 PH in front.
A small sentence explaining that TS adapters cannot be used for 1/2 PH would help. Additionally on page 69, Phones 1/2 output is described "as output 1/2 TS" while it is really "as output 1/2 TRS".

@KaiS: From what you are saying, I have understood that impedance balanced outputs (at the rear) can be shorted, while unbalanced outputs (in front) cannot be shorted. Thank you.

9 (edited by ning 2022-01-24 08:54:52)

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

> Additionally on page 69, Phones 1/2 output is described "as output 1/2 TS" while it is really "as output 1/2 TRS".

Maybe the manual is not updated as the impedance balanced resistor is only available on the FS R, not previous model.

> @KaiS: From what you are saying, I have understood that impedance balanced outputs (at the rear) can be shorted, while unbalanced outputs (in front) cannot be shorted. Thank you.

For the impedance balanced output on the back, the ground and - phase (pin R and S) can be shorted because there's nothing driving the - phase. R is simply a resistor connected to ground.

For HP out 1/2 or 3/4 on the front, the  ground and independent right channel (pin R and S) are driven actively so they cannot be shorted.

once you get the two facts, the rest are no-brainer.

10

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

ning wrote:

> Additionally on page 69, Phones 1/2 output is described "as output 1/2 TS" while it is really "as output 1/2 TRS".

Maybe the manual is not updated as the impedance balanced resistor is only available on the FS R, not previous model

Correct. I'll fix that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

11 (edited by KaiS 2022-01-24 10:43:38)

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

rbachl wrote:

@KaiS: From what you are saying, I have understood that impedance balanced outputs (at the rear) can be shorted, while unbalanced outputs (in front) cannot be shorted. Thank you.

That‘s true, and both use the same 6.3 mm TRS plug.

But - the main difference:
The 2 Front Outputs are for 2 pairs of STEREO headphones.
The 2 Rear Outputs are the separated left and right Line Outputs.
All are labeled as such, and have different output power to suit their purpose.

This is so common that probably nobody ever thought that it needs a dedicated explanation.

So:
• Connecting amplifiers, active loudspeakers and such: Rear
• Connecting headphones: Front

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

As far as I know the front outputs can also be used for amplifiers and active loudspeaker if the mode is set to balanced.

Win10 Pro, ADI-2 Pro, Basis 1, Adam A3X; RL 906; Grace M902B, Glockenklang Bugatti, Strauss SE-NF-3

13 (edited by KaiS 2022-01-24 12:10:27)

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

beat8000 wrote:

As far as I know the front outputs can also be used for amplifiers and active loudspeaker if the mode is set to balanced.

The 2 headphones outs can be used as 2 additional stereo line out even unbalanced, when using a properly wired cable.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81pIudYw-TL._SX522_.jpg

But that’s a special case.

For balanced better use the rear XLRs (or even TRS on the later models), to keep ADI-2 Pro’s flexibility.
Headphones Balanced Mode incorporates some limitations, as both DAC chips are blocked for this.

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

For balanced better use the rear XLRs (or even TRS on the later models), ...

Does this mean, for ADI-2 PRO FS R BE the rear TRS outputs carry the same signals (hot, cold) as the XLR outputs ("real" balanced outputs)?

15 (edited by KaiS 2022-01-24 17:56:33)

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

bejoro wrote:

For balanced better use the rear XLRs (or even TRS on the later models), ...

Does this mean, for ADI-2 PRO FS R BE the rear TRS outputs carry the same signals (hot, cold) as the XLR outputs ("real" balanced outputs)?

No, look here some posts above:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 96#p182196

The Ring of the TRS plug is connected to Ground through a resistor (in later models, early models are TS single ended) that equals the output impedance of the Tip which carries the signal.

You get the full benefit of common mode rejection, but not the double voltage of true balanced (which is too hot for most applications anyway).

It’s all there, you just have to choose the right connector for your application.

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

Thank you very much. Sorry I misunderstood your remark. I thought it was different in newer models.
Now it is perfectly clear, great help.

17

Re: Which adapter on PH as mono line output?

The advantage of using the phones outputs as TRS balanced connection is an absurd low output impedance of 0.2 Ohms and an absurd high output level of +28 dBu. KaiS, KSTR, me and other nerds (freaks) need that from time to time wink

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME