1 (edited by Drone 2022-03-21 08:51:55)

Topic: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Hi there.

I am quite disillusioned now. I've been using my HDSPe for multiple years now and apart from the sizzling and hissing headphone audio signal, especially when moving the mouse, I haven't been using the analog outputs so far. I have already sent in the card to RME some time ago because of the consistent noise on the headphones, but they returned it unchanged and said everything is ok. Now that my setup has changed and I run monitor speakers through the balanced XLR outputs, it is disappointing enough that the sizzling and hissing happen to occur on the speakers as well, but only on the left channel. Beside that there's also a massive difference in output volume between the right and the left channel, the right one being much louder. I need to set the output channel pan in TotalMix to L40 to make it about the same level. I have exchanged the cables to check if it's the speakers or the setup, but this is clearly not the case. The issue comes from the HDSPe AIO. I have already checked for solutions and tried to tape the card as it has been suggested. But that didn't change a thing. This leaves me with the impression that the HDSPe AIO were of minor quality, despite its quite "professional" price tag. Apparently, from what I read, RME blames the users for having bad computers. I have tried this on three computers now and the result is the same with all of them. This is a huge disappointment, especially considering the fact that I sent in the card and said it doesn't work properly some time ago.

What's that with the right channel being louder on XLR output? The breakout cable is new.

2

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Plug XLR in to out directly at the breakout cable, no other cable in-between. Play test tone or music and check the input levels in TM FX and DIGICheck.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

3 (edited by Drone 2022-03-21 08:42:42)

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Hi there Carsten

Thank you for your quick response. I did this and this is what I got with and without test tone:

https://i.ibb.co/HhfnKYr/Sine-Wave-440-Hz.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/RvvSt87/no-test-tone.jpg

Edit: I mixed up the channels by crossing the cables. The right channel is the louder one and without static noise on the second screen shot. But this should make no difference to understand the problem. The difference is pretty exactly 6dB which is very well noticeable.

You may want this information, too:
https://i.ibb.co/Hn2WYT0/Bit-Statistic-Noise.jpg
I switched the cables for this screenshot so these are the actual values for each channel.

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

And once more with no test generator sound:
https://i.ibb.co/TctMs9k/Bit-Statistic-Noise-no-sound.jpg

5

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Good. Then now methodically test all the available Input and Output Ref Levels from the settings dialog. You claim the breakout cable is new, so I don't expect two of these cables to have the same issue. But if one of the level switches of input or output is not working as expected it would show as your numbers do. But then there will be states where it works correctly, unless either input or output itself are broken.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Which settings dialog do you mean? DigiCheck? I can not really figure out what I am supposed to do there when you speak of "methodically testing all the in- and output ref levels".

Yes, I purchased the breakout cable directly from the RME distributor when I got the card back after sending it in to RME because I planned to buy some active monitor speakers. But I have not used the balanced XLR breakout cable since as I have postponed the purchase until last week. So I can't think of the cable being broken. Before I have been only using the SPDIF output and the problem obviously doesn't exist there.

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Ref levels are usually in the hdsp setting app. See if there a setting where levels are equal.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Hi vinark, thanks for tuning in.

I'm either stupid or just totally clueless. There's only this page within the settings app that says anything about levels. I don't think it is what I should be looking for.

If I switch off "XLR", it's getting louder. If I set it on "Hi Gain", it's going louder as well or even louder if I keep XLR deactivated and the level becomes lower when I set it to -10dBV. I don't get what (else) could be tested there.

https://i.ibb.co/gWVFy58/HDSPe-Settings.jpg

9

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

I can clearly see 'Level' written two times in that dialog.

Set the input level to LoGain. Change the Output Level  betwen all three choices. Do any of these settings make the channels show identical levels on input level meters?

Set the output level to -10 dBV. Change the Input Level between all three choices. Do any of these settings make the channels show identical levels on input level meters?

If any combination shows one channel at lower volume then either input or output are defective. That again can be easily tested by using output L and plug it into L, then R.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

10 (edited by Drone 2022-03-22 06:25:05)

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Carsten, I didn't say I don't see "Level" written there... I just wasn't quite sure what you were suggesting. Now it's clear to me.

The answer is no. Changing the Reference Level does not change anything, as you can see from the screenshots.

From the top: Hi Gain, +4dBu, -10dBV

https://i.ibb.co/NT31Mks/HiGain.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/85HNwBZ/4dBu.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/9t7SC0W/10dBV.jpg

All the combinations lead to the same result. As I said in my first post, the left channel output is not as loud as the right one. This is still the case.

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

That's it? No more replies?

So apparently the output is defective. Most likely bad QC. Can't say for sure since I have never used the analog outputs before. Can RME fix this? How much will this be?

12 (edited by vinark 2022-03-24 08:19:06)

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

If you also have the unbalanced cable, can you do the same testing? No pictures needed, just tell us.

If the quieter one sounds ok, you could just make the output (or what you send to the output) double mono in tmfx and either set one fader 6db quiter or one 6 db louder. This would be set and forget. Or you could check the headphones out, they are usable as line outs too, have separate dac and amps.. Or since this is the non pro AIO you could try and get an output expansion board, might be cheaper then repair if you can find a cheap one. BTW I am not from RME!!! I am just trying to help troubleshoot and maybe work around it. I would try the headphones out and -6db trick myself.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

13 (edited by Drone 2022-03-25 10:03:24)

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Thank you vinark, your input is very appreciated. And yes, I knew you're not from RME. But Carsten is.

I thought myself about getting a DAC with S/PDIF input and balanced XLR outputs, but I haven't found something that's affordable by now. The point is that there's some noise on the headphones which I can describe best as some sort of sizzling. This is also occuring on the left XLR output, but not on the right.
I'm sure the result is the same with the unbalanced outbreak cable, but I will try this out to be sure. I need to get the box out of the cellar first, however.
It's a shame I didn't check on the analog outputs when the card was new. I'm pretty sure this is an out-of-factory issue.

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Can you test the card in another PCIe slot or another PC? As for the imbalance, this may require service, but isn't a sign of generally bad quality or QC, else this forum would be full of it...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

RME Support wrote:

Can you test the card in another PCIe slot or another PC? As for the imbalance, this may require service, but isn't a sign of generally bad quality or QC, else this forum would be full of it...

Hi Daniel,

Sorry for the delay, I wasn't home so I couldn't look into this until today.

I just got the Cinch-Breakout-Cable from the cellar (thanks for suggesting this @vinark) and attached it to the HDSPe AIO, using a Cinch-to-Mini Jack connected to a Tascam DR-100MkII and it looks like the signal is equally loud. So what does this say? Did your distribution partner "Music Network" sell me a flawed cable or is there still the possibility that something is defective with the HDSPe AIO itself? The cable wasn't exactly cheap so I am not really eager to spend money on another one just to find out it doesn't solve the problem.

Cinch
https://i.ibb.co/kBH5KJh/IMG-20220401-231836-2.jpg

XLR
https://i.ibb.co/g6H22ND/IMG-20220401-232744-2.jpg

16

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

The balanced output uses an additional amp for the additional pin in the balanced connection. If that amp is dead it would result in what you see, 6 dB less level. The same would happen when the wire connection inside the breakout cable is missing for that one pin. So it still can be card or cable.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

So if it's the amp, can it be fixed? And again: How much will it cost?

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Just to be complete, there is no advantage to balanced at line levels. Maybe you can just send the cable back as defective and see what they say.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

19

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

Sure it can be fixed. Costs I can't comment, you have to ask at your local service center.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

vinark wrote:

Just to be complete, there is no advantage to balanced at line levels.

Thanks vinark. The XLR goes to active speakers. My idea was that balanced cables will avoid hum. On the other hand, if I am using the asymmetric Cinch-Breakout-Cable, I can't use the balanced inputs either.

21 (edited by vinark 2022-04-07 06:40:13)

Re: HDSPe AIO (non Pro) - Analog audio issue

You can easily create your own custom cable with something like https://www.ebay.nl/itm/382836332377?_t … BM1NH7p4Bg Also possible to test if it is the cable or amp like this. Or create a custom unbalanced ou, balanced in one. Also for balanced in the same applies, not important to be balanced on short cable runs.

Oh and the one I linked to is not the right type, you have to check male or female and number of pins. The pin outs are in the manual.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632