1 (edited by Metalhawk 2022-04-06 17:02:47)

Topic: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

Hi everybody! This is my first post since I have been a happy RME user for one year. I've been much time using my Babyface getting excellent results, perfect drivers performance, etc.  BUT suddenly (maybe after some Windows update, but I am not sure 100%), it's impossible to me to use the DAW without extreme lag behaviour. I mean, weather I click something or hit play button or move one track I get an horrible lag and the events take place very slowly, in an unusable way.

I have tested the interface in an old Windows 7 with everything obsolete and it works perfect. I also updated the Babyface and the DAW in the same Windows 7 and still everything going perfect.

I have tested an M-Audio M-Track 2x2 in my "problematic" PC and again, and surprisingly, everything goes perfect...

I'm even getting almost impossible to find the Babyface Audio Device in the sound menu (next to the Windows clock). Tried everything: last drivers, previous ones, previous versions of my DAW (Cakewalk by Bandlab)  latest versions of it.

Windows 10 is full updated... I'm getting crazy. I hope someone can see what's happening here.

Thank you all!

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

Windows update has an update history where you can check, whether an update matches with the first occurrence of these issues. It should also be able to back-out such a bad patch (if this should be the issue).

Another thing is that you do not seem to have a proper backup / desaster recovery strategy which is a bad thing.
Otherwise you could restore your Windows installation of the day where all still worked in about no time.

This works best if you separate OS/Programs/Registry from user data.
Although you can't easily move your complete user profile to a location on separate disk you can at least move the prepared folders (Own Documents, Music, Videos, etc) by opening the properties and moving it.

The advantage is, that you can restore the Windows Installation without loosing user data.
The only thing which needs to be copied / restored separately are changes of Appdata with application settings:
C:\Users\<username>\AppData

Such application data and my user data on a separate disk I mirror in it's original format, so that it is guaranteed, that it's readable on whatever PC and is fully independend of the backup software,

For backup of Windows Disk/SSD I use Macrium Reflect (do not use Acronis, this is banana software and does not work in that particular moment where you need to restore your data ...). For mirroring user profile and user data I used FreeFileSync.

Macrium Reflect has the advantage to be reliable and blindingly fast as it restores only data on disk that needs to be changed. And this is very little because on my system disk there is not so much data that changed during the last days.
So a full restore of my 1TB disk with 800GB of data takes below 15 minutes....

And exactly something like this and a proven procedure you will need, to be able to quickly and reliably recover from such situations. If you do not have it just right now .. bad luck .. but I give you the strong recommendation to build up something like this...

Other possibilities to come forward

1. Make a backup now using Macrium Reflect, to have a backup of this state, so that it doesn't become even worse
2. check Task manager whether you see processes consuming much CPU time and/or memory, is there something unusual?
3. Start DAW with fresh default settings...
    Quit DAW and rename the folder containing DAW settings, usually
      - C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\<appname> -> <appname>.old
    to be on the safe side also the folder for local / temp data
     - C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\<appname> -> <appname>.old
    Start DAW and check whether it runs better now without lag.
4. Install Reaper, check whether reaper also have such problems or not.
5. Install a 2nd disk/ssd and perform a clean Windows 10 installation and prepare for DUAL boot.
    Then you can make test installations for such or other purposes on that disk.
    Make a minimum installation with RME driver only and your DAW software, check whether the issue persists.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

I tried changing the Roaming apps to .old to force Cakewalk create a new one. Everything remains the same. Also tried to choose a restore point but all of them are after the troubles begun.

Your are right about that I have no recovering strategy for this cases... I only have backup on my secondary 1Tb HDD software and of course all my musicl projects. And I am not so experienced in the software you mentioned but I will definitely dig into it.
I will try by the moment with Reaper and see the Babyface performance.

I wish someone had the same problem and could have the key to this sh**!!

Thank you Ramses for taking the time to help!

4 (edited by ramses 2022-04-06 19:03:56)

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

Again .. when did it 1st occur ? Was there a Windows update ?
Did you try another DAW ? Reaper ?

Don't you see any processes with high CPU load ? What is the CPU load on an IDLE system (fresh reboot/login) ?

Virus scan to be on the safe side...

What does LatencyMon report ? Bad DPC lag ? Maybe because of driver update ?

Any additional system load by e.g. Indexer, Defragmenter (hopefully not on a SSD), Antivirus Scan ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

5 (edited by Metalhawk 2022-04-06 19:43:17)

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

This happens about 2 weeks ago but I don't know the exact day... and yes, I remember that a major Windows update took place right before the problems started.

No CPU usage out of normal is taking place (Ryzen 5 2600G, always very relaxed). Now with Reaper open, browser, Kemper Rig is ~5% load.

I work on a SSD. I do antivirus scans quite often. Anyway I spend most part of time out of internet (ethernet disabled).

It's also very strange that I cannot see RME device on Windows, but I can use it.

I am right now testing a demo of Reaper and works perfect... I am loading Diva, Addictive Drums, etc, no pops, no lags, just great.....

I didn't test the other software you mention yet.

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

If reaper works, then where is the lag/issue ?!

> It's also very strange that I cannot see RME device on Windows, but I can use it

Sorry, from that description I can not understand what you see where.

The Babyface Pro should be visible in device manager.
To enable windows sound you need to configure WDM devices in the RME driver first.
Then you can set in windows sound settings this just defined speaker device as default sound device for Windows OS and all applications that do not support ASIO (e.g. Internet Browser, etc).

For a basic setup see my blog article for a 1st time setup: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

7 (edited by Metalhawk 2022-04-06 19:57:43)

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

The problem is in Cakewalk. I have been using SONAR for many years. I cannot find Babyface device when I click on the speaker icon next no the Windows clock (I only can see the Realtek device). Before the problems started I always could choose between Realtek and Babyface devices.

If I go inside Windows sound devices (from Windows Settings) I actually can see that a Babyface exists as sound device, but I can't select it as output because it is not simply available as output in the menu. In the other hand I can select the RME driver, for example, inside the mp3 player because there it is visible.

Thank you!

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

> If I go inside Windows sound devices (from Windows Settings) I actually can see that a Babyface exists
> as sound device,
> but I can't select it as output because it is not simply available as output in the menu.

??? I mean this:

After defining the speaker device in the RME driver settings

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cya32wwk5n786fu/2022-04-06%20madiface%20wdm.jpg?dl=1

You configure Windows sound that this just created sound device becomes the default sound device for Windows and all applications, that do not support ASIO.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5y6cezfz0ingjil/2022-04-06%20windows%20sound%20-%20default%20sound%20device.jpg?dl=1

In your DAW (which supports ASIO) you will load the RME ASIO driver, this doesn't need to use the Windows WDM driver (= Windows default sound device).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

The lag is because you can’t select the fireface asio driver (which is how it appears)

Have you tried reinstalling the driver again and made sure you are on the latest one? I’m on the latest version of windows and gave no problems in Cubase

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

ramses wrote:

> After defining the speaker device in the RME driver settings

Oh great, I had set to 0 the number of WDM devices..., that's the reason Windows couldn't choose the Babyface as Output, now that is solved. Thank you!.

mkok wrote:

The lag is because you can’t select the fireface asio driver (which is how it appears)

The Fireface ASIO Driver is always selected in Cakewalk, but the lag is still the very same.

https://i.ibb.co/b56r9t7/Captura2.png

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

If reaper is ok then the driver is fine. There isn’t anything in cakewalk increasing the buffers?

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

There's many, many things you can try which would help us determine what's going on. For one, I highly suggest testing the unit in the Class Compliant mode (driverless, enter it by holding down both Select & Recall when the Babyface is first plugged into USB for power, see manual for details). That'll sort out whether or not you've got a issue pertaining directly to the WDM / ASIO drivers in Windows as you can assume that the built-in ASIO USB Class Compliant audio driver will always work properly with any such audio interface. Also I highly recommend testing on other computers - in class-compliant mode, you can plug it into any Windows/Mac and they should automatically switch over the stereo output & input to the babyface (even iOS & Android devices too). I doubt your babyface hardware is messed up, which is what I'm trying to rule out. Of course if funniness persists, ensure you're on the latest firmware update and even if so flash that firmware again for good measure. There's also RME's own software DIGIcheck which comes w Babyface, I've not gotten a chance to try it yet (Win-only) but I believe lets you check stuff like full-trip send/return latency. I hate to say it, but like the Babyface manual states, Windows audio drivers stuff is kinda yuck - apparently OK tho in the end; btw if you're trying it in class-compliant mode on an older Windows computer, idk remember exactly when Microsoft finally got around to including class compliant audio support PlugNplay (not XP, maybe by 7) but if needed just google & download the USB Audio Class Compliant  ASIO driver. Also you haven't really told us where you're experiencing the lag - are you monitoring via your DAW or are you using only TotalMixFX for real-time monitoring (highly recommended) ? Looks like you're using a low buffer (as you'd want to) but for me even at that low audio buffer rate, my DAW needs to be set to its 'low latency mode' to eliminate noticeable lag when playing software instruments live out of my DAW. Try another DAW, too, download n-track for example of something free & easy.

13 (edited by Metalhawk 2022-04-26 18:44:24)

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

DaveDaves wrote:

For one, I highly suggest testing the unit in the Class Compliant mode (driverless, enter it by holding down both Select & Recall when the Babyface is first plugged into USB for power, see manual for details). That'll sort out whether or not you've got a issue pertaining directly to the WDM / ASIO drivers in Windows as you can assume that the built-in ASIO USB Class Compliant audio driver will always work properly with any such audio interface. Also I highly recommend testing on other computers - in class-compliant mode, you can plug it into any Windows/Mac and they should automatically switch over the stereo output & input to the babyface (even iOS & Android devices too).

As you said, I have just tried connecting it by pressing Select and Recall at the same time and Windows did not use the RME installed drivers, instead, now Windows recognizes the Babyface as an audio interface with controller errors and it is invisible for Cakewalk.
https://i.ibb.co/PCYRtcP/imagen.png

I tried letting Windows solve the problem and nothing happened after restart, the very same: controller errors.

I am also trying by interchanging interfaces while Cakewalk is open and then selecting the proper driver and the problem also disappears with my M-Audio... When I choose again RME drivers, the problems come again...

I am seriously considering buying a new and cheaper option, like the MOTU M4...

Thanks a lot, guys, for your help.

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

AFAIK class compliant mode does not work correctly under windows as you have noticed (MS issue).
As a last resort could you do a clean install of windows 10 21H2 on an external drive? With just cakewalk and see if this solves it.
Also can you open performance monitor and see if there is very high cpu use and by what?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

15 (edited by ramses 2022-04-26 20:31:51)

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

Ensure that BBF Pro has been upgraded to latest firmware and drivers.

Changing the recording interface is IMHO a bad idea. You confirmed already that all worked only not your DAW. And if there would be something wrong with the BBF you would see plenty of such reports.

I agree with vinark, if anything else fails, that you should try to find out the key issue why only your DAW does not work, by performing a new vanilla / standard installation, avoiding any fancy not required stuff like CC mode.

Only for Windows and "applications not supporting ASIO" you need to create a WDM device for AN1/2 out where your active monitors are connected to.

In your DAW always use the ASIO driver.

If your DAW does not work properly, but Reaper or Cubase do, then you have a DAW problem.
You can also perform installation on your current disk if there is enough free space by using tools to repartition it and create a new partition. Then you can install on that new partition if there is enough room.

Make a backup 1st by using tools like Macrium reflect. You should know what you are doing otherwise better install to a 2nd ssd.
A working backup is mandatory to be able to restore everything including the last working MBR and partition table.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

16 (edited by Metalhawk 2022-04-27 15:14:39)

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

I am afraid that the problem is coming 100% from Cakewalk since I have just found a thread in this forum where the user (777mirek) is having the very same issues... (https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34350).

He finally says that already tried reinstalling a clean W10 and experienced the very same. I was about to start doing that, as you guys recommended, but after reading this.... I will consider that would happen the same to me. I need to discover wtf is happening between the RME and Cakewalk software....

But I noticed that there's another common aspect in our cases: we both are using Ryzen... This is becoming so intriguing to me...

Thank you guys.

PD: I attach another RME VS Cakewalk case I found (and also Ryzen!), this could be useful for new RME users that could come by: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php? … asio-mode/

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

Do you have any older version of cakewalk you could try?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

vinark wrote:

Do you have any older version of cakewalk you could try?

I tried with several older versions of Cakewalk and the issue with the babyface remains in my Windows 10.

Re: Babyface stopped working properly. Huge lag (Windows 10)

I have no experience, but there is a usb port problem with some amd mobo's and a fix I believe.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632