Topic: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

Dear RME-ians,

Please could you validate my hypothetical use case?

I would like to set ADI-2 Pro FS R into AD/DA mode, but item 4 is an exception as it is A to D+A.

Following connections:
(1) computer via digiface USB optical out -> ADI-2 SP opt in + ADI-2 SRC on (for additional jitter removal) - -> ADI-2 main 1/2 out
(2) player device coax out -> ADI-2 SP coax in + ADI-2 SRC on (for additional jitter removal) - -> ADI-2 main 1/2 out
(3) other device AES out -> ADI-2 SP AES + ADI-2 SRC on (for additional jitter removal) - -> ADI-2 main 1/2 out
(4) analog player --> ADI-2 analog in --> ADI-2 main 1/2 out + ADI-2 digital SP opt out --> in order to record to digiface USB optical in

Few questions:
a. Does the above make sense?
b. And for programming the remote, could I without issues program above (1) thru (4) into key 1-4 on the remote control? I specifically ask because the manual says selection options are SP (not &opt &coax), AES, Analog etc but did not detail on SP opt and SP coax in detail
c. Will all this work in one mode that is AD/DA or does it require to switch modes?

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

2 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-25 21:49:52)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

Looks reasonable, except for the SRC:

Using the SRC at the input defeats the much better jitter removal of FS Clock, as the input’s jitter will be printed into the audio stream by the SRC chip.
Better without SRC.


To consider:
• I prefer DAC mode, it’s even easier to use.

• For case (4) be sure there is a valid SINGLE clock master, e.g. Master Digiface USB, Slave ADI-2 clocked through it’s optical in.
ADI-2 clock slave does NOT work in the simplistic DAC mode, so AD-DA mode for this.

You can store Setups for each use case and recall them on the remote.
.

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

I read (in the manual) that SRC is active as default in AD/DA mode.

DAC mode makes sense, but then for A to D I'd have to switch setups, Basically I would like to switch between all 4 the scenarios at the press of a remote control button.

New Question, Say that I create a (complex) setup for each of the desired, could I then have Setup 1 at remote button 1, Setup 2 at remote control button 2 etc?

I have to ask because I have no ADI-2 Pro FS R to test with.

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

4 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-26 06:15:17)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

fieldstu wrote:

Say that I create a (complex) setup for each of the desired, could I then have Setup 1 at remote button 1, Setup 2 at remote control button 2 etc?

Yes, but even better:
An individual button assignment is stored within each Setup.

So, with one single button you can circle through numerous Setups, like:

Same button recalls:
Setup 2 (from Setup 1)
Setup 3 (from Setup 2)
Setup 4 (from Setup 3)
Setup 1 (from Setup 4)

Maybe 2 Setups are enough anyway, as there are dedicated Coax/Optical input select buttons on the remote and 1 Source Analog, 2 Source AES are default button assignments (manual page 18).

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

note to self, found visualized alternative page: https://www.hifizine.com/2019/01/rme-ad … nal-modes/

@KaiS, DAC mode seems totally possible for the basic scenarios (1)(2)(3)(4) above.

summary:
(1) SP opt,
(2) SP coax,
  (3) AES,
all three as digital incoming sources to main out 1/2 would be possible in DAC mode.
    (4) analog in to USB + to main out 1/2 also possible in DAC mode.

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

6 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-27 07:49:05)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

fieldstu wrote:

@KaiS, DAC mode seems totally possible for the basic scenarios (1)(2)(3)(4) above.

summary:
(1) SP opt,
(2) SP coax,
  (3) AES,
all three as digital incoming sources to main out 1/2 would be possible in DAC mode.
    (4) analog in to USB + to main out 1/2 also possible in DAC mode.

Yes, if you skip Digiface USB, and ADI-2 Pro’s USB comes into play, the Master Clock for (4) is solved too, the host sets the clock.

I this case you don’t even need Setups, just select the inputs at the remote.


I like and use DAC Mode for it’s simplicity, in a comparable config:

• Streaming and recording through USB (on an iDevice).
• External sources (CD-Player, TV, etc.) from a digital switchbox into ADI-2 Pro’s optical in.
• Analog sources.
I don‘t need multiple parallel routings like possible in other Modes, listening one source at a time.

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

Yeah but I'dd not skip Digiface USB as then I cannot control TM and output level via ARC USB

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

8 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-27 11:35:42)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

fieldstu wrote:

Yeah but I'dd not skip Digiface USB as then I cannot control TM and output level via ARC USB

Then DAC Mode is not well suited for case (4), as you can‘t properly control the sample rate.

When switching to Analog Input ADI-2 Pro continues to run on the last used SR, without a user option to change that.


@MC: could this be changed? Makes no sense to grey out the SR option in this case.


A parallel connection of ADI-2 Pro AND Digiface USB via USB would be counterintuitive in the sense of simplicity.
Then better use ADDA Mode for case (4), selected by a Preset.

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

KaiS wrote:

A parallel connection of ADI-2 Pro AND Digiface USB via USB would be counterintuitive in the sense of simplicity.
Then better use ADDA Mode for case (4), selected by a Preset.

Could this additional step also be programmed under one of the 1-7 remote buttons?

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

One more question.

Say I have a source that has both a SPDIF optical out as well as an AES digital out. I currently have connected it via optical. Now with a ADI-2 in sight I could also use AES. Any preference or does it not matter in terms of sound quality?
It's only for CD quality e.g. 16bit 44.1kHz

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

11 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-28 08:18:40)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

fieldstu wrote:

One more question.

Say I have a source that has both a SPDIF optical out as well as an AES digital out. I currently have connected it via optical. Now with a ADI-2 in sight I could also use AES. Any preference or does it not matter in terms of sound quality?
It's only for CD quality e.g. 16bit 44.1kHz

Stay with optical.

Optical offers electrical “galvanic“ isolation, which avoids possible hum caused by ground loops.

Soundwise AES has no advantage over optical with ADI-2.
ADI-2‘s Steadyclock FS removes any possible clock jitter for either connection.


Remark:
ALL digital interfaces (AES, Coax, Optical, USB, etc.) introduce huge amounts of clock jitter, so Steadyclock FS is an important feature that is highly developed in ADI-2.

12 (edited by ramses 2022-04-28 09:14:45)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

> FS
Steadyclock (FS).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

13 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-28 13:32:34)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

fieldstu wrote:
KaiS wrote:

A parallel connection of ADI-2 Pro AND Digiface USB via USB would be counterintuitive in the sense of simplicity.
Then better use ADDA Mode for case (4), selected by a Preset.

Could this additional step also be programmed under one of the 1-7 remote buttons?

Yes, Setup recall can be assigned to a remote button, as described above:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 56#p186856

14 (edited by fieldstu 2022-04-28 17:54:06)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

Super, about to start experimenting now.

By the way I noted the ADI-2 is upon button presses of programmable buttons 1-7 complaining that different sources can only be selected via this buttons in DAC mode.

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

15 (edited by fieldstu 2022-04-28 19:39:00)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

Unfortunately I do not see how to make ADI2 clock master, but the digital playback is stably clocked, so I do not worry too much.
Aiming to keep things simple, I worked out the following scenario that is flexible enough to leave everything connected without the ADI2 on USB (I do not want to keep USB connected on the ADI2).

Scenario update:
(D) Digital playback optical out (clock master) --> Digiface USB optical in (clock slave) --> TM --> Digiface USB optical out (repeats clock signal) --> ADI2 SP opt in (clock slave) --> DA conversion --> analog out

//This enables mixing digital playback + all computer based via TM, translated to analog via ADI2//

And, (A) Analog playback --> ADI2 analog in --> AD conversion --> ADI2 SP opt out (clock repeated from D to A chain above) --> Digiface USB optical in (no clock slave to ADI but via other port still to the digital playback)

Do I do this right?

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

16 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-29 11:42:31)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

As I don’t have a Digiface USB, I can’t test these scenarios.

Remember:
There needs to be a single clock master, other devices need to be slaved, and may NOT free run.


(D) looks valid, except that Digiface USB unit can’t be master AND slave at the same time.
If Digiface USB is dedicated clock master, getting it’s same clocked signal back on it’s input doesn’t partly turn it into a slave.

Check ADI-2’s State Overview screen to verify ADI-2 is slave:
SP op: “sync” and Clock Source is “SPDIF”.


(A) I can’t follow.

Complex clock configurations are best verified by recording a high frequency sinewave (above audible) from an external analog source, e.g. a smartphone generator app.

When there are clock issues, audible clicks due to jumping samples appear.
The Digicheck Analyser can show them too, the lower f-bands act when clicks happen.
Don’t play it loud (don’t need to, the clicks are obvious), such signals can kill tweeters.

17 (edited by fieldstu 2022-04-29 18:12:22)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

Thanks. I care about my ears even more.

A is simple. In terms of clock it is:
Digital playback distributes the clock. Digiface USB follows the clock. You can select on the Digiface which input it used to sync to, this is the input where digital playback is received and not another port. As such Digiface will on its term output the clock towards ADI-2 Pro which will follow that clock. Clock chain is as such ok.
B is more complex in terms of clock, and that's where my question is.
I was wondering for the analog to digital, that ADI-2 will output its digital signal into the Digiface USB into another input, i.e. where ADI-2 signal is received but ADI-2 clock that comes with the signal is ignored. After all in theory the ADI-2 is already running at the clock speed as per digital playback, as how it is redistributed via Digiface USB.
I seek to confirm that due to the fact that ADI-2 was originally already clocked via Digiface USB under (A) and when the ADI-2 clock to Digiface USB being ignored does not result in sync issues.

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

smile and I route every thing thru Digiface because I want to control all mixes via the computer

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

Tested in AD/DA mode the RME bit tests and all succeeds according the ADI-2 screen. I guess now to see if the same signal ends up in the computer but I have never gone so far to compare two files that have a timing difference. (i.e. recording started earlier than the test file was played)

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

20 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-29 19:25:54)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

The main point for analog recording is:
ADI-2 needs to be Clock Slave to Digiface USB‘s optical out.

In AD/DA Mode this can be configured.
Then check State Ocerview screen to verify ADI-2 is slave:
SP op: “sync” and Clock Source is “SPDIF”.

That‘s it.

This does not work in DAC mode BTW.

21 (edited by fieldstu 2022-04-29 19:30:02)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

ok, so that is exactly what happens with the (A) and (B) above, where ADI-2 is slave to Digiface USB clock, and the digital out from ADI-2 goes into Digiface USB for recording. I think we agree smile

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

22 (edited by fieldstu 2022-05-08 21:20:06)

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

KaiS wrote:

• External sources (CD-Player, TV, etc.) from a digital switchbox into ADI-2 Pro’s optical in.

Good idea! Link to digital optical / coax switches see below link from MC.

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

23

Re: ADI-2 Pro FS R AD/DA scenario, pls advise

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29927

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME