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RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2/4 Prototyp
Sooooo:
https://www.gearnews.de/superbooth-22-i … -prototyp/
This looks really intriguing. Finally setting up a Sat-Subwoofer system would be easily feasible.
But: will the ADI-2/4 be addressable via Totalmix? It's the missing feature of the ADI line!
ah, finally there're 3/4 in the back.
the front balanced out looks ugly though. It just look like full of holes... I'd rather get a dual 1/4 inch -> 4pin XLR cable instead
english translation: https://www.gearnews.com/superbooth-202 … e-spotted/
so it's an ADI 2 pro with 2 in / 4 out
It, also, has a "trig out", so you can turn other devices(or chain of devices) on/off ! Very thoughtful !!
Looking forward for the official announcement!!
@RME Congrats for yet another beauty!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdMFILHfpc
so more wattage, and more dsp power.
probably different da/ad chips as distortion and noise are lower.
So 1) 10band eq may finally be a thing 2) probably we can drive sensitive IEMs with the Pro?
What to do with the DSP power ? Remove DSD support, add TM FX. Sorry couldn't resist 
More EQ bands would be useful for some ppl.
> What to do with the DSP power ? Remove DSD support, add TM FX. Sorry couldn't resist wink
don't think RME will do that.
currently a large portions of the processing power are used for, guess what, spectrum analyzer.
while many people are looking forward to 10-band EQs, RME currently uses 120 filters to show the analyzer.
(though each of the latter filters are lightweight as they are done in lower precision, no headroom, and lower sample rate)
it's good investment though --- many users watch the analyzer for hours.
They asked for a wishlist, so here‘s my take.
I will add more ideas over time:
• Pentacon balanced coupled to Output 3/4 only, instead of additionally occupying Output 1/2.
The existing Dual DAC based “Balance Mode” might stay too, to squeeze out a few dB more signal quality.
• TotalMix FX support.
• Option to mix Analog In with a digital / USB source for lowest latency direct monitoring while playing or singing along.
• More digital gain range on the analog ins to (mis-)use them as microphone inputs.
• Unlimited number of EQ Presets.
• Possibility to export and import EQ and maybe other settings.
• Filters and other settings to change the device into a 2-way speaker X-Over, maybe in a special “Mode” like:
- Shapes: Bessel, Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley.
- Slopes 6, 12, 18, 24 dB/Oct.
- Filter Q.
- Phase-shift.
- Delay.
• Added options in the channel routing:
LEFT (only) - LEFT (to both) - REVERSE - STEREO - MONO - RIGHT (to both) - RIGHT (only).
The “only” kind of duplicates what “Pan”-Control does, but still...
• Extended Stereo Width Range: up to 200% (= full spread) - 100 (= normal stereo) - 0 % (= mono)
• 10 Bands of EQ (although I am REALLY satisfied with the current 7 bands!).
• Auto Reference Level range extended by 3 additional steps down (this could be in form of an integrated Passive Attenuator of e.g. 20 dB.
This would use just one more 2x2 Relay for each output.
• AES out, independent Direct/DSP routing from SPDIF (Optical+Coax) outs.
• Digital ins and outs as additional separated DSP channels with their own routing, similar to the existing analog I/O’s.
Or maybe just one extra DSP channel designated “Digital Output” that can be selected or bypassed for AES and/or SPDIF.
Enough to fully use the extended DSP 
?
The above actually uses moderate amounts of resources.
Unless you are using very high frequency or you have a lot of channels to process and mix,
Modern hardware can easily handle.
Great list by Kai. Speaker X-Over would be very welcome. Also TM, did I mention TM?
+1 for Total Mix app support.
I eventually got the hang of the internal settings but would love to have been able to set it all up with a MacOS app, as well as more easily save and backup the settings etc.
+1 for Total Mix app support.
I eventually got the hang of the internal settings but would love to have been able to set it all up with a MacOS app, as well as more easily save and backup the settings etc.
+1 and then retroactive also to the existing ADI2 Pro
This version will make a lot of mastering engineers happy though. I honestly never thought I'd see it happen.
I know some are already using the current ADI-2 Pro FS as is with the headphone output as the speaker out but that seemed like a bit of a hack/compromise to me.
Having native dedicated outs to both feed the mastering chain and monitor plus being able to use the dedicated headphone outputs will be huge, and cut down on a lot of questions about how to do it and if it's possible with this unit to which there have been MANY.
A great improvement on an already nice sounding unit.
Integrate with Dirac!
> +1 and then retroactive also to the existing ADI2 Pro smile
I believe this will not happen. when the 2/4 is released, the current ADI-2 DAC and Pro will be done except bug fixes.
RME has supported the product line for 6 years,
It's reasonable for them to move on to something new.
> Integrate with Dirac!
this will not happen. it will boost the price too much and will make the 2/4 a commercial failure.
also there's nothing in Dirac you can't do with a just a raspberry pi..
AKM chips only ! Especially for AKM 'DSD Direct' conversion.
there's a new video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6txgP7xLlQ
new facts
- dsp capacity is 20% greater
- RME put 21 relays inside the unit...
- RME is also making a 12V linear PSU...
my thought
1
dsp power is only 20% more, so most item from the above DSP wish list will not be realized.
Seems hardware capacity is not very different from the current generation.
So there's hope that RME will continue updating firmware for existing units with the new one.
for 20% of more dsp capacity, I'd vote for speaker crossover filter, as we now have rear 3/4 outputs.
This is the most straightforward one.
2
I now want to look at the pcb and see how they fit 21 relays in the single board.
current gen Pro has 9 relays and DAC has 10.
The Pro PCB is already very full. 21 is more than double of that number.
I guess they also changed the HP amp circuit as it can output much more power so that definitely needs more space.
Does the unit have multiple pcbs?
3
Don't understand why the 12V linear psu is there.
I thought we are moving towards smps.
Also the manual explained clearly that psu will not improve sound quality.
@ning
As for the 3, the change is made because some of us had tried linear power supplies and heard improvements and I guess the company itself found it. But some people in here laughed when we talked about the improvement due to linear power supplies.
I'm interested to buy this device just for highend analog listening as an important use case.
Therefore my suggestion would be to add a pure analog mode from balanced input to output without any conversion.
This power supply is different in its concept and will appeal to some (as nearhos prooved), but we will never state that it sounds better or such. BTW, the 2/4 Pro will ship with the current SMPS in a 40 Watt version, and no longer two prong but IEC socket with PE ground to finally fix the leakage current issue.
Also this is not a replacement for the ADI-2 Pro (FS R BE) - that one will continue to be available (as soon as there are parts to build it...). The ADI-2/4 Pro SE is a step up and therefore more expensive.
I will write a post with some more details soon.
Oh I guess I found out how RME can fit 21 relays and put more headphone amp power into the unit. The well over 24W power maximum consumption simply cannot be done with the existing unit size. I watched the video more closely this time and found the 2/4 is larger than the adi-2 pro so there's enough space. with this space MC probably implement all level switchers with relays rather than analog switches, similar to what has been done in the DAC version.
I guess the DA chip has been switched to ESS. video does mention it has lower noise and distortion, something that's only possible with ESS currently, given the availability of chips.
My hope is the 2/4 will not use SON package of the 1688. at least use soic, or better, go for 1656.
SON is so hard to work with when failed. many people experienced such failure and had to replace the entire board.
(From the forum posts I guess the failure rate already gets much lower recently?)
After reading the thread, again, a crazy idea popped in my mind!
And this was triggered by @ning's statement that the spectrum analyzer "takes" the most out of the processing power.
What if there were two versions of firmware?
A "Classic" mode, as it is now
and a "Studio" mode, where the ADI 2 Pro series are treated as Audio Interfaces.
In "Studio" Mode, there can be all the Monitoring features(Dynamic Loudness, ref level switching, EQ presets, etc)
plusTMFX and ASIO/Core Audio driver, but no Spectrum Analyzer on the device itself! Because, there is DigiCheck for that!
And the device will be connected to a computer, anyway!
Of course, all this could be set up with a single Firmware Update Tool asking the user which Mode he/she wants to flash the unit with!
This way it can be retroactive, too!
I don't know if this is do-able, but I thought I could share it!
I don't think RME will put TMFX into this unit. it would make it a completely different unit.
It's true that the spectrum analyzer takes 120 biquads (2 biquad for each channel and band x 2 channels x 30 bands) to run. But AFAIK those are performed with a much lower rate and resolution with no headroom. The resource consuming part is doing biquad for high resolution music. As long as you're ok with DSPing in 96khz sample rate (which is already very high in my book), the existing unit has enough power to extend it to well over 10band EQ, and you can still enjoy watching the dancing spectrum.
(My guess RME's native DSP sample rate is 192 for the pro and 384 for the DAC. anything lower will be upsampled to that rate. anything higher will trigger limitations)
I don't think RME will put TMFX into this unit. it would make it a completely different unit.
It's true that the spectrum analyzer takes 120 biquads (2 biquad for each channel and band x 2 channels x 30 bands) to run. But AFAIK those are performed with a much lower rate and resolution with no headroom. The resource consuming part is doing biquad for high resolution music. As long as you're ok with DSPing in 96khz sample rate (which is already very high in my book), the existing unit has enough power to extend it to well over 10band EQ, and you can still enjoy watching the dancing spectrum.
(My guess RME's native DSP sample rate is 192 for the pro and 384 for the DAC. anything lower will be upsampled to that rate. anything higher will trigger limitations)
Aah, I see!
Thanks for the explanation!
Hopefully has DSD512 support, in DSD Direct mode !
And DSD512 + DSD Direct on headphone output !
Hopefully has DSD512 support, in DSD Direct mode !
And DSD512 + DSD Direct on headphone output !
Supporting DSD512 does not need new hardware. If RME decides this is necessary, they could just update firmware and driver to support it.
Also there will be no dsd direct if the adi-2/4 is using ess chip.
Also there will be no dsd direct if the adi-2/4 is using ess chip.
Yes that's why in post #16 I requested a return to AKM chip. For exactly this reason.
AKM chips coming back online in 2nd half of 2022 + ADI-2/4 coming out end of year tells me there is a good chance AKM will be coming to this product.
Fingers crossed
Why people argue against TM is completely beyond me. It's a much request feature and would make the ADI line much more useful. The distinction between interface and converter is artificial and doesn't really make sense in this form factor.
Lack of TM is the one reason why I didn't buy the ADI-2 Pro FS and eventually got a BFP FS instead. I almost bought a Merging Anubis, which has all the features the ADI-2 lacks and much better UI. It sounded great too but simply sucked stability wise.
Anyhow: I hope RME listens to their customers and at least makes the 2/4 a full citizen in the RME world.
Why people argue against TM is completely beyond me. It's a much request feature and would make the ADI line much more useful. The distinction between interface and converter is artificial and doesn't really make sense in this form factor.
Lack of TM is the one reason why I didn't buy the ADI-2 Pro FS and eventually got a BFP FS instead. I almost bought a Merging Anubis, which has all the features the ADI-2 lacks and much better UI. It sounded great too but simply sucked stability wise.
Anyhow: I hope RME listens to their customers and at least makes the 2/4 a full citizen in the RME world.
I want TM too. But ADI-2 with TMFX would either be 1) too expensive for customers to buy it. this is especially true when making ADI-2/4 fully feathered audio interface by adding mic inputs. 2) moderated priced so it hurts the sale of other TMFX units such as UCX II.
Why people argue against TM ... a much request feature and would make the ADI line much more useful. The distinction between interface and converter is artificial and doesn't really make sense ...
I totally agree, TotalMix FX is one of the most missed features, according to this forum‘s demands.
Making ADI-2/4 Pro a recording interface would be even more important, as it represents RME’s TOTL regarding converter quality.
The DigiFace USB with TotalMix FX is just 320 bucks, so it‘s not necessary a question of cost to add this functionality.
NoisyNarrowBandDevice wrote:Why people argue against TM ... a much request feature and would make the ADI line much more useful. The distinction between interface and converter is artificial and doesn't really make sense ...
I totally agree, TotalMix FX is one of the most missed features, according to this forum‘s demands.
Making ADI-2/4 Pro a recording interface would be even more important, as it represents RME’s TOTL regarding converter quality.
The DigiFace USB with TotalMix FX is just 320 bucks, so it‘s not necessary a question of cost to add this functionality.
I would even consider to kick DSD support if this is an issue in terms of "complexity".
I had to smile Kai, when reading from one of your last posts, that you are also a "big fan" of DSD But I fear that will never happen, as many audiophile people would be very disappointed, esp. if they already invested into DSD content.
Maybe this would qualify for two different product lines or firmware images, one for audiophile demand, another one for Recording and Studio with TM FX .... just wildly brainstorming ...
>Making ADI-2/4 Pro a recording interface would be even more important, as it represents RME’s TOTL regarding converter quality.
Then it needs mic/instrument inputs which add cost significantly. Making it state of art flagship that supports Reverb/Delay also requires additional memory chip.
>The DigiFace USB with TotalMix FX is just 320 bucks, so it‘s not necessary a question of cost to add this functionality.
Mixing high res files needs significant amount of FPGA power. digiface only support 24 bits and has low channel count at 192khz.
Support mixing in ADI-2 (above 192/32 ) requires more FPGA power than it currently has.
With that said, I'll be more than happy to see ADI-2 support TMFX with lower sample rate (192) and other limitations.
Only 24 bits?
144 dB dynamic range, what more could you ask for?
The limits (sample rate, channel count, bit depth) of DigiFace USB origin from it’s TOSlink / optical interface.
Still more than enough for professional audio work.
What format do you guess I get most of materials from other studios?
I tell you, 48/24!
If they need HiRes they sample up the final result.
No one I know works beyond 96/24.
Most who have tried came back to 48/24.
I have a meeting tonight with several colleagues, will ask around.
Only 24 bits?
144 dB dynamic range, what more could you ask for?The limits (sample rate, channel count, bit depth) of DigiFace USB origin from it’s TOSlink / optical interface.
Still more than enough for professional audio work.What format do you guess I get most of materials from other studios?
I tell you, 48/24!
If they need HiRes they sample up the final result.No one I know works beyond 96/24.
Most who have tried came back to 48/24.I have a meeting tonight with several colleagues, will ask around.
> Only 24 bits?
Only is in comparison to 32bit ADI-2.
See above I already said "96khz sample rate is already very high in my book" and in other threads "there's no need to pursue 32 bit transparency." (https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 74#p187174).
But ADI-2 is a 768/32 device and is marketed as such. It also only supports 32bit I/O. recording professionals who needs TMFX don't need that. the targeted audience who need 768/32 does not need TMFX, and they also need DSD 512 (see above...)
Want an audio interface with TMFX? A babyface pro is more versatile than ADI-2 even if the latter is equipped with TMFX. It's also much cheaper.
This is super exciting. A 2/2 ADI 2 pro. Im sure gonna get one. 
I use the ADI-2 Pro AE together with a Babyface Pro mainly as monitor controller. The setup is something between an amateur studio and a HiFi environment. Before this I had a Benchmark DAC-1 with a Fireface, but the ADI-2 was so much more versatile I could clean up my already crowded environment.
Generally I would like to see three improvements in the new ADI.
Ease of use: I think the ADI is the piece of equipment I refer to the manual the most often. Even more than for my rack where Fireface and Octomic are installed. I would like to have it in my TMFX as well, but I know how people look when I show them TMFX that are used to HiFi equipment only. An app may solve that.
Connections: I use every single entry of my ADI and I could use more. I have no idea where to fit these onto the back, an additional box may be the way to go. The connection type I miss the most is Bluetooth. I know the limitations of BT, but there are so many people showing up with their smartphone and quickly connect them to the speakers would be very convenient. And it would enable controlling the device with an app.
Compatibility: The EQ is one of the strongest points for advanced use. I've made several settings for headphones and speakers and that works well. It lacks compatibility to other tools like REW or Oratory1990's headphone measurements. And it is not exactly easy to transfer these measurements with the three buttons available. For HiFi use I see compatibility to Roon as the most helpful missing feature.
I know that the use case of the HiFi crowd and studio pros is a split Van Damme would be proud of. It is quite an achievement that the ADI-2 is so successful in both camps. I personally don't care about DSD for instance, just because I can't edit it. HiRes is helpful when you want to edit a file but I'm not so sure it is of any importance for listening.
That is something I wouldn't have written a while ago. I was a subscriber to The Absolute Sound and believed in clean power and tiny tools to lift your cables from the ground. I could hear easily all these effects. Then I joined Hydrogenaudio for the development of the psychoacoustic model of the LAME codec. It is astounding how much you can detect knowing the source and how much you actually classify correctly in AB/X. So, if you believe the ADI is a cool sounding unit and this or that changed its sound, you may want to question yourself.
These are my feature requests for the new ADI-2/4, especially for mastering engineers these would be helpful:
- different calibrated levels with a press of a button. For example, if you want to switch between the K-System scales in Mastering.
- FIR Linear phase EQ for speaker room correction. (Preferably with 65536 taps, if possible, beacause many high quality room correction software uses this tap size as a standard and it works well)
For headphones a minimal phase EQ is still the better choice, but room corrections should be made with a linear phase EQ.
- Time alignment of the left and right speakers
- Totalmix FX would also be nice, because with an additional interface to use Totalmix FX, I can't use the full 32 bit of the ADI-2 Pro, because the SPDIF or AES output of the interface “only” supports 24 bit. So I have to use a 24-bit dither in my DAW Monitor Output and I don't want to think about that.
These are my feature requests for the new ADI-2/4, especially for mastering engineers these would be helpful:
- different calibrated levels with a press of a button. For example, if you want to switch between the K-System scales in Mastering.
- FIR Linear phase EQ for speaker room correction. (Preferably with 65536 taps, if possible, beacause many high quality room correction software uses this tap size as a standard and it works well)
For headphones a minimal phase EQ is still the better choice, but room corrections should be made with a linear phase EQ.- Time alignment of the left and right speakers
- Totalmix FX would also be nice, because with an additional interface to use Totalmix FX, I can't use the full 32 bit of the ADI-2 Pro, because the SPDIF or AES output of the interface “only” supports 24 bit. So I have to use a 24-bit dither in my DAW Monitor Output and I don't want to think about that.
If it might JUST barely get 10 band PEQ, there is no chance for 65k FIR convolution engine inside LOL.
RME had a booth at the Munich High End Show and I could take a picture of it with the new external power supply. The size of the unit is the same in height and width, but it is 3cm (1.2") deeper. As you can see the PS is even deeper, which I don't like, maybe they can make this unit wider with the same depth as the ADI.
Features are more or less fixed, our ideas should concentrate on stuff doable in the firmware.
Isn't the power supply just the same size just turned by 90°?
If you why not make them in the same orientation and thus stackable...
Wow. With a power supply like that, it definitely rules out mobile use for me but I guess that's what the current ADI-2 Pro FS I have is for.
Can somebody remind me what the issue with the current power supply is that this one solves? I applaud the heavy duty engineering of it but it's not something I'd want to haul around.
Mastering engineers looking for a great interface to feed their analog chain, capture it, AND monitor it all will love this unit. I use an RME AES card already with some other things going on so the current ADI-2 Pro FS in standalone AD/DA mode also works well for me for my main mastering setup, but I'm wondering what the new power supply adds/fixes.
Afaik the 2/4 still comes with the old power supply. The linear power supply is optional and probably geared towards the audiophile market.
It will be interesting if there's any audible or measurable difference at all.
I should have written that clearer. The ADI 2/4 ist 3cm deeper than the ADI 2. I didn't compare the size of the power supply against the main unit. From my memory I would say they weren't identical and the picture is a bit misleading due to perspective. I still would prefer the two units to be stackable in their final form.
And super important: The LEDs have to show when the burn-in period of the power supply is over and when the tubes are at their optimal working conditions. And so forth.
> The ADI 2/4 ist 3cm deeper than the ADI 2.
Yeah, I noticed that through the video. otherwise it doesn't make sense. see
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 25#p187525
> The LEDs have to show when the burn-in period of the power supply is over and when the tubes are at their optimal working conditions. And so forth.
burn-in? of a power supply? tube? omg!
Afaik the 2/4 still comes with the old power supply. The linear power supply is optional and probably geared towards the audiophile market.
It will be interesting if there's any audible or measurable difference at all.
As already written:
The new Power Supply has a grounded mains connector that has the capability to solve some problems in certain configurations, where missing-ground related noise appeared when ADI-2 was switched off.
The Linear Power Supply is for the audiofools.
RME certainly found:
if they are willing to pay, why not to take their money
Seriously:
Linear Power Supply was an often requested feature, and I think it’s better RME supplies it, with their typical good quality/price relationship than some exotic solutions that might even kill ADI-2.
From the energy saving point of view a linear power supply is a catastrophe, completely out of time.
For the form factor:
I suggest to make it 10 times bigger, fill the bottom with 40 pounds of (secret formula) concrete, and call it a stabilizer, that smoothes out hi frequency transients
> RME certainly found: if they are willing to pay, why not to take their money
In that area you will find good, but also poorly designed devices without all required technical tests, because in this market segment you can make a lot of money. I think it is good if RME offers well-designed, solid devices with all the necessary technical tests and quality seals for customers who regard such PSUs as important.
> RME certainly found: if they are willing to pay, why not to take their money
In that area you will find good, but also poorly designed devices without all required technical tests, because in this market segment you can make a lot of money. I think it is good if RME offers well-designed, solid devices with all the necessary technical tests and quality seals for customers who regard such PSUs as important.
That’s what I said further on.
If you quote me please don’t ignore the
Audiophiles want confidence in their gear. Its more of an aesthetical thing than empirical and science based. Whitout fact based bias they are easy prey for marketing firms. Ofcourse you could tap in to some of it, making money makes sense. But, adopting the mythos concepts of audiophile while at the same time pushing the "feet to the ground" science based studio gear is somewhat of a backbend. It would be a sellout of company soul here..
To the product, the new pro. I want full and dedicated x-over functionality for a true 2.2 setup. No headphone out to monitor or other hacks. Four separate TRS or XLR on the rear panel, straight to speakers.
but i've never heard a linear power supply has tube that needs warming first...
Perhaps we will see other benefits like a higher output of the headamps. RME didn't talk about it, but this would be something I could understand and is transferable into a marketing claim. RME should have a look at Cyrus with their PSU/Amp Combos. This is clever marketing without too obvious BS and a fitting design across the line.
And don't forget, Audiophiles hear the things we didn't while we recorded it.
but i've never heard a linear power supply has tube that needs warming first...
Because there aren't any tubes in it. That's why I chose it. I could have mention the crystals to synchronize the power flow with the lei lines.
RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2/4 Prototyp
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