Topic: Totalmix - Independent Fader Groups, for Remote Submix Control

I'm attempting to use my Fireface UFC+ as a FOH Mixer with 6 separate monitor mixes for the musicians, via Totalmix and Totalmix Remote.  In addition to the various instrument and vocal inputs, I have multiple keyboard and drum inputs that I'd like to show up in the individual monitor mixes as two single Keyboards and Drums faders, rather than each of the musicians having to adjust all the various inputs.

I had high hopes that I could set up two fader groups, for Keyboards and for Drums, such that the individual groupings would be common for each Monitor Submix, but the adjustable levels would be independent for each submix that the Fader Group was assigned/programmed to. In this way, I could establish a basic mix for Keyboards and Drums, and each user could then have a single adjustment point that would let them independently adjust their desired volumes of each "input submix".  As I've discovered, the Fader Groups are not independent, such that programing the same fader group across more than one output submix causes level adjustments that impact/corrupt the other submixes.  So, I've given up on that approach.

If there were a larger number of assignable Fader Groups, I would be able to accomplish my goal, but with only 4, I can only get 2 of the 6 musicians the simplified interface.  But in lieu of that, the only way I've thought of to accomplish my goal is to use a hardware/cable output to input loopback:  for example, it seems like I could break my AES HW Input & Output into two mono sends and receives, and build a Keyboard Submix for one and a Drum submix for the other; then with the output hardwired back to the AES input, I could then use those 2 inputs as the single point Keyboards and Drums inputs in each monitor submix.  My main concern there is the potential feedback if the AES outputs hever had the inputs brought to non-zero values. 

So I'm looking for some comments as to the viability of doing this.  Perhaps there is another more direct way to accomplish what I'm trying to do that has escaped me?  Suggestions and comments welcomed!

Also, to the RME mods, would my suggestion to make the 4 existing Fader Groups "independent" over each output submix be an enhancement that might be considered viable for future Totalmix updates?  It would obviously be helpful to someone using the Remote user features, but I imagine a lot of folks using Totalmix don't run at that level of complexity.  Having a new Preferences selection that would toggle the feature on/off would be ideal.

Thanks for your consideration!



Re: Totalmix - Independent Fader Groups, for Remote Submix Control

Interesting suggestion. We will discuss this internally. But please note that even if this is added to our list it would take a long time to be implemented. So better don't wait for it.

Matthias Carstens

Re: Totalmix - Independent Fader Groups, for Remote Submix Control

if you wanted to create OSC layouts on tablets for each musicians monitor control, you may be able to hack something similar to fader grouping behaviour that way..

the idea is... design a OSC tablet layout and create a fader and then assign all the individual drum input channels to that OSC fader.. so if you have 6 drum channels then the tablet fader has those six OSC addresses assigned to it. then when the user moves the tablets fader it moves all the drum input faders in totalmix.. the grouping info is stored in the OSC layout and totalmix just think its getting a message to moves 6 faders at once. also totalmix can limit each OSC controller to only change levels for one output so each musician cant affect each others mix..

there are some caveats with this though in terms of how relative levels between the drum channels and the tablet fader can change, also the way OSC transmits and is received.. it isn't perfect solution but I'm pretty sure ive used it for simple stuff and you may potentially be able to make it work...

the software I used was OSCAR which worked ok, but these days touchOSC has had a large update also and if you wanted to go down the rabbit hole there could be possibilities in the new touchOSC that might make this concept work better..

ive also used the loopback idea but with ADAT on UFX.. I recall it worked ok for what I wanted but yes a feedback loop could occur..  if you remove the visibility of those output channels from totalmix and all controllers it may mitigate the chance of feedback..  for example... split your AES into LEFT/RIGHT, then select AES LEFT output on bottom row.. create the drum mix going to that output then once the mix is set go to totalmix settings and hide AES LEFT visibility... then you cant select that output accidently and route the AES input back to the AES output.. 

anytime you wanted to update the drum/keyboard mix you would need to make AES outputs visible while you did this and then hide again once mix changes are done..  again not a perfect solution but might be good enough..

Re: Totalmix - Independent Fader Groups, for Remote Submix Control

Matthias - I appreciate you all taking a look, if possible the enhancement sure would be useful to mel.

ebulb - using OSC is something I had not considered, so thanks for the great suggestion.  I will probably go with the hardware workaround for the moment, just because I have enough to think about to get these 6 monitor mixes set up as well as the main views for me (I run the sound as well as play keyboards), teach everyone how to run their personal mixes, and get used to Totalmix EQ and effects.  Gonna be fun!

Re: Totalmix - Independent Fader Groups, for Remote Submix Control

cool.. if you hide the AES output channels after you have setup the mixes it should help prevent accidently creating a feedback loop..

Re: Totalmix - Independent Fader Groups, for Remote Submix Control

Kind of bummed out this isn't possible, yet.  Sounds like I'll be keeping my Qu-24 (and QuYou iPhone/Android apps for each artist) for the foreseeable future.  It's a bit of a waste, as I'm only using it as a monitor mixer and really hoped to replace it with TotalMix.