• Registered: 2019-10-06
  • Posts: 9

Topic: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

I have a prophet 6 going into the RME, going into ableton.  The tracks in ableton are playing nice and loud, but my Prophet 6 synth has very low audio signal levels going in.  I've tried mono and stereo, same level for both.

In tonal mix I have all the routing going properly.  Hardware fader up, hardware output fader up with main fader up as well.

With my synth at full volume, I'm only getting about 25-30% of the volume I'd like.  What am I doing wrong?

  • ramses
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Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

Maybe choose a different reference level for the Inputs. In TM FX: Tool Symbol and there you can set Lo Gain or +4 dBu.
Or check the submix, whether the input fader has a low setting below 0dB.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

3 Reply by iamtaliesin (edited by iamtaliesin 2019-10-06 22:30:57)

  • Registered: 2019-10-06
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Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

the tool button and +4db definitely helped a little bit.  Thank you.

Working on playing with the submix faders to try to boost a little more.

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-10-07 08:12:43)

  • ramses
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Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

You need to check levels.
What
- HW Inputs
- SW Playback Channels
- HW Outputs
are in use in your scenario ?
Tell the names of the Channels, so that we can name them more specific when troubleshooting further.

You said that the Input Levels in your DAW are fine.
In this case I would assume, that something happens inside of your DAW that reduces the level.

Are you aware of the signal flow ?
Everything which is connected to the inputs of your recording interface is shown in TM FX in the Top Row "HW Inputs".
This input signal will always be passed through to the application (DAW) unaltered, always.
The Main Out of your DAW is most likely AN1/2.
So the output Signal will be shown in TM FX in the Middle Row unter SW Playback Channel AN 1/2.
This you route finally to an HW output of your choice.

Now check the HW output / submix (bottom row).
Ensure that TM FX operates in submix mode (see upper right).
Click to the channel HW Output AN1/2 in the bottom row (assumed that your Monitors are connected to this output).
Now you see the submix for your monitors (see fader positions of HW inputs and SW playback channels,
esp. for those channels where you see a signal).

Ensure, that you hear the signal coming from your keyboard
- either directly from the HW inputs (HW input 3/4, top row)
- or from the DAW (application) via SW Playback Channel 1/2 (the main output of your DAW, middle row).
You can change between these 2 basic scenarios by
- setting HW input to 0dB and by turning down SW Playback channel (monitoring with near-zero latency)
- turning down HW input and setting SW playback channel to 0dB (now you hear via DAW with the usual RTL.

If the signal coming from the DAW is lower, then you have done something inside of the DAW which makes the signal weaker. This can be fader settings or plugins that you use in the channel of the instrument or in the main output of the DAW, you need to check that.

You should be able to detect this easily by watchting / comparing the level of HW input and SW playback channel.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

5 Reply by iamtaliesin (edited by iamtaliesin 2019-10-10 00:45:01)

  • Registered: 2019-10-06
  • Posts: 9

Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

ramses wrote:

You need to check levels.
What
- HW Inputs
- SW Playback Channels
- HW Outputs
are in use in your scenario ?
Tell the names of the Channels, so that we can name them more specific when troubleshooting further.

You said that the Input Levels in your DAW are fine.
In this case I would assume, that something happens inside of your DAW that reduces the level.

Are you aware of the signal flow ?
Everything which is connected to the inputs of your recording interface is shown in TM FX in the Top Row "HW Inputs".
This input signal will always be passed through to the application (DAW) unaltered, always.
The Main Out of your DAW is most likely AN1/2.
So the output Signal will be shown in TM FX in the Middle Row unter SW Playback Channel AN 1/2.
This you route finally to an HW output of your choice.

Now check the HW output / submix (bottom row).
Ensure that TM FX operates in submix mode (see upper right).
Click to the channel HW Output AN1/2 in the bottom row (assumed that your Monitors are connected to this output).
Now you see the submix for your monitors (see fader positions of HW inputs and SW playback channels,
esp. for those channels where you see a signal).

Ensure, that you hear the signal coming from your keyboard
- either directly from the HW inputs (HW input 3/4, top row)
- or from the DAW (application) via SW Playback Channel 1/2 (the main output of your DAW, middle row).
You can change between these 2 basic scenarios by
- setting HW input to 0dB and by turning down SW Playback channel (monitoring with near-zero latency)
- turning down HW input and setting SW playback channel to 0dB (now you hear via DAW with the usual RTL.

If the signal coming from the DAW is lower, then you have done something inside of the DAW which makes the signal weaker. This can be fader settings or plugins that you use in the channel of the instrument or in the main output of the DAW, you need to check that.

You should be able to detect this easily by watchting / comparing the level of HW input and SW playback channel.

I am aware of the signal flow.  I am in Submix.  I now have turned my DAW off completely and just using the Fireface in standalone to help troubleshoot faster. 

I have a NORD going in MONO to the back of the Fireface in INPUT 1, in TotalMix this is AN 1/2. 

My monitors are hooked up to the back of the fireface in OUTPUTS 3 and 5, in TotalMix this AN 3/4 and AN 5/6.  EDIT: I should probably be using my splitter to just have one output from the fireface going to both monitors, no?

In TotalMix, I select HW OUTPUTS 3/4 and 5/6 and raise them to about 0.  I raise the HW INPUT to about 0 as well. 

It works, I get nice clear audio but it's quiet.  Like I have the NORD turned up to 100% volume and my input signal in TotalMix shows I am only hitting about -30 dB.... about 1/3 of the way up. At 50% volume on the keyboard, where I normally play with headphones, TotalMix is registering about -50 dB... pretty damn quiet.  I feel like it should be clipping way above 0 at these settings. 

Still reading the manual word for word trying to get this fixed.  Also playing with the MAIN fader in TotalMix does nothing.  Shouldn't pulling the MAIN fader down cut out all input signal volume?  Not that concerned about this part yet. 

Thanks for any help.

EDIT:  also while testing just now... my AN 5/6 HW OUTPUT just cut completely out and I lost all signal to the right monitor, while not clicking on anything... I reset the whole mix board in options, and this gave me audio back in 5/6 but not 3/4 OUTPUT... pulled everything out, replugged back in, reset totalmix and now I'm back to where I was.  Working signal and audio in both monitors but just quiet.

I just pulled up Ableton again to check and I have perfectly good and loud audio coming through the SOFTWARE PLAYBACK section with no issues.... I'm at a loss..

I have set HW INPUT Gain to 12.0 (100%) and the LoGain to +4dB as the first poster suggested and that kind of gets me almost to where I feel it's loud enough but I feel like I shouldn't have to set the Gain all the way to MAX just to get an almost proper signal level.

If someone wants to make some money and work with me on getting my whole set up and signals working correctly I will pay fairly.

6 Reply by MetalHeadKeys (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2019-10-11 01:27:49)

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

Hi , I 'll try to help as well, no need for money! big_smile

I have a NORD going in MONO to the back of the Fireface in INPUT 1, in TotalMix this is AN 1/2

Not totally, it's AN1 only, and it is panned left by default, as AN1/2 is a stereo channel(i.e 2 mono Channels panned left and right). If you click on the settings button on the stereo channel AN1/2(a small round button on the right of every channel), another menu will open up where you can set the stereo image, or split the channels to mono. Split them and if AN1 is still panned to left, pan it to center. I think that alone will give you a small volume boost.

My monitors are hooked up to the back of the fireface in OUTPUTS 3 and 5, in TotalMix this AN 3/4 and AN 5/6.  EDIT: I should probably be using my splitter to just have one output from the fireface going to both monitors, no?

No, you don't need it! It's the same as the inputs. Just plug your monitors to Output 3 and 4, and you 're in stereo!
These are Balanced Mono Outputs and Inputs! What you need is balanced trs cables, and i think this will increase your volume of the prophet as well. Also you need to check if the outputs of your synths are balanced.

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

7 Reply by MetalHeadKeys (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2019-10-11 03:14:49)

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

It just occured to me, that you only have the left side of the stereo outputs coming out from your monitors, since output 3 is panned left and output 5 is panned left as well. So your setup is outputing the same signal from your left and right monitor! Just hook up your right monitor in Output4, and that would be a step forward! Then follow Ramses' post and we 'll figure it out!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
  • Registered: 2011-01-15
  • Posts: 5

Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

Hi,
Just saw this topic.
I have the same issue. Low input level. I can't see any solution in the responses below. Maybe (I hope so!) you have solve the problem now. What was the solution?
Thanks in advance!
Ciao
Babacane

  • Jeff
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Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

Set input sensitivity to +4 (Lo Gain is for hotter input signals), then you also have some digital gain if needed. These setting are on the TotalMix input channel, click the wrench/tool icon to access.

If it is still too low, make sure the synth output is turned up. You can also try the front inputs (ch 9-12) in Instrument mode, this would work well if the synth output is too low for the rear line inputs.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

  • Registered: 2011-01-15
  • Posts: 5

Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

Thanks Jeff,
I already selected +4 and put the gain up to 12db but it was too low. I can see the front inputs have more gain but it is a pity the lines are so low. Just bought the UFXII to have more analog ins but if the volume is too low... Do you know if there is an alternative? I cannot believe RME makes these choices...
thanks again!
Babacane

  • Jeff
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Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

Not sure why you would blame RME for the low output of your synth, the RME unit supports all common reference levels.

Are you sure there is no level control or alternate output type available for the synth?

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

12 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-12-26 11:50:05)

  • ramses
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Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

babacane wrote:

Thanks Jeff,
I already selected +4 and put the gain up to 12db, but it was too low. I can see the front inputs have more gain, but it is a pity the lines are so low. Just bought the UFX II to have more analog ins, but if the volume is too low… Do you know if there is an alternative? I cannot believe RME makes these choices…
Thanks again!
Babacane

The UCX II has two reference levels implemented: +19 dBu and +13 dBu

To reach +4 dBu studio level, select +13 dBu and add +9 dB digital gain (adjustable from 0-12 dB).

You can't reach consumer level, which is -10 dBV = -7.781 dBu.
You would require 20,8 dB digital gain to reach consumer level, with ref level +13 dBu selected.

With ref level set to +13 dBu and using the maximum digital gain of 12 dB, you can reach -1.22 dBV.

If the input signal is still too low, then you need to check the output level / ref level of your connected device whether you can add some volume.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2011-01-15
  • Posts: 5

Re: Fireface UFX ii: Low audio input levels from synth

Thanks a lot for your answers!
I'm sorry but was not complaining. Actually, I was trying to find a solution but I understand your reaction. Sorry for that!
I'm actually using the UFXII with the +4dbu setting with my synths (old and new ones) at full volume and was expecting more signal. I will follow your advice.
Thank again.
Babacane