151 (edited by ayane 2022-07-12 16:34:41)

Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

MC wrote:
spnc wrote:

But I understand as per ASR forum that the 1st gen ADI is not powerful enough, especially with high impedance headphones?

Was just looking at the manual and it seems that an adapter won't make a difference for the Aeons; the RME simply can't push more current than about 250 mA

The ADIs show very high output wattage for high impedance headphones among the units tested at ASR. This should be obvious when reading (!) the reviews. Simple reason is that most units offer a max of around 19 dBu at 300 Ohms, but the ADI reaches +22 dBu (317 mW). Make that another +6 dB  for the balanced Pro, a whopping 1.26 W, which is able to fry most of the high impedance models as they typically not stand more than 500 mW. To compare to some other marketing claims: that is 55 Volt peak to peak at the headphone output.

Then the obvious confusion about level and power. This Aeon user never got to 250 mA, he does not need more power, but has a level issue in his signal chain. I bet that he did not use the available +6 dB Volume as he feared distortion or noise. A quick look at the available level meters would have made clear that the output is far from max and the input level is far too low.


I do feel slightly called out! It's true I've shied away from testing the headroom before deciding to use my other headphone amp because I was worried about driving the ADI-2 into clipping, but I'm not sure I agree with this entirely.

Further to your comments, I've tested some songs and the level meters every now and then do come to close to max (even with software ReplayGain & EQ turned on) when there are very deep/low notes playing:

    - Tsuyoshi Ujiki's "Dry Your Tears BGM" from Hokuto No Ken Soundtrack III (original 1986 CD) hits -9 dB peaks, but 0 dBr is quiet. I have to switch ReplayGain to "track mode" for this song (-1 dB peaks, highest I've ever seen) to become "loud," but not "loud enough," at 0 dBr.

      - Tupac's "Hail Mary" from The Don Killuminati (original 1996 CD) hits -7 dB peaks and 0 dBr is just "moderately loud." Same goes for a couple of other songs from this album.

        - Michael Jackson's "Thriller" from Thriller (first digital pressing 1982 CD with pre-emphasis) hits -3 dB peaks and 0 dBr is "loud," but not "loud enough" (pre-emphasis removed). Couple of other songs from this album also don't get "loud enough," just "loud."

          - Hans Zimmer's "Imperfect Lock" from Interstellar (expanded edition 2020 CD) hits -2 dB peaks and 0 dBr is just not loud enough. Many songs from this album don't get higher than "moderately loud" at 0 dBr while hitting -2 dB peaks.

          With the exception of the first song, the highest the level meter goes is -2 dB, so definitely not driving in first gear here. Yes, much of the time it is below -10 dB for the entirety of some songs, even with my DSP settings. Again, for most of the music I listen to, the RME works like a charm and gets plenty loud before I even need to push the volume to 0 dBr. It is just that 5% of the time that it simply runs out at 0 dBr. It was the Hans Zimmer music that made me decide to use my SMSL SP200 originally.

          Again, I apologize for not having SPL data to quantify my subjective claims of loudness, but I take great care of my hearing and would not risk playing at levels that would be fatiguing except for one or two few songs at a time at most. This may or may not be helpful, but here's how I would describe different levels of loudness:

            - "Quiet" is like overhearing music playing from a phone across from the room

              - "Moderate" is like a normal conversation/TV listening level

                - Moderately loud" is an enthusiastic conversation.

                  - "Loud" is watching a movie or playing music on my speakers at a "fun" level that's tiring after a few minutes

                    - "Loud enough" is like movie theater loudness, and not really fun except for a few brief moments.

                    "Loud enough" makes me cringe if it's any more than one or two quick hits in an otherwise quieter song. My headphones sometimes just don't get "loud," let alone "loud enough," especially in the low bass. It's not an issue with my hearing, because I am sensitive to those frequencies when listening to speakers (or even other headphones). As I suspected earlier, I'm not sure the 93 dB/mW specification for these headphones is correct.

                    152 (edited by Muffin 2022-07-12 16:47:10)

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    spnc wrote:
                    Happy_amateur wrote:
                    NoisyNarrowBandDevice wrote:

                    Pretty sure the existing ADI-2 already is a high-end ear-fryer and the 2/4 will fry ears even higher.

                    Can we get back to some real topics pls! It has been sort of asked before but I hope for the 2/4 to essentially be a MiniDSP 2x4 contender: per channel adjustable HPF/LPF and Linkwitz or Butterworth filters with variable slope.

                    And Totalmix.

                    wink

                    Im all in for this. Getting tired of people searching for the last volt for their Susvaras(which they prob havent bought yet)(..reading up on ASR too much smile ). Ofcourse ADI-2-dac/pro/2-4 should be able to drive anything given its aim for top contenders, but it isnt really a uniqe selling point these days. What will be the RME magic for the new device.

                    Then again, with only a few months left its all about the wait. Isnt it? big_smile

                    I'm all in for this too. Tired of people getting tired of people like you lol...

                    Or NoisyNarrowBandDevice asking for TotalMix integration when it's been said 1000 times here and there that TM is not for ADIs...

                    Or the other clown asking for a way to charge his mobile phone on it lol...

                    Yes indeed, it would be good to go back to the real topic: sound and power, like it's the main thing we're asking for such a device!

                    And we should be grateful for ASR tests and user feedbacks, without it I'd be more easily fooled by "marketing mumbo-jumbo" indeed

                    RME has decided to not implement TotalMix for their converters and my guess is that it would add significant expenses to the devices, both hardware as well as software. I don't think it's only a marketing segmentation thing.

                    TotalMix would be nice, though smile

                    153

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    Muffin wrote:
                    spnc wrote:
                    Happy_amateur wrote:

                    Im all in for this. Getting tired of people searching for the last volt for their Susvaras(which they prob havent bought yet)(..reading up on ASR too much smile ). Ofcourse ADI-2-dac/pro/2-4 should be able to drive anything given its aim for top contenders, but it isnt really a uniqe selling point these days. What will be the RME magic for the new device.

                    Then again, with only a few months left its all about the wait. Isnt it? big_smile

                    Yes and if you already own a RME interface using TM I don't see the added value in having it in the ADI as well??

                    I'm all in for this too. Tired of people getting tired of people like you lol...

                    Or NoisyNarrowBandDevice asking for TotalMix integration when it's been said 1000 times here and there that TM is not for ADIs...

                    Or the other clown asking for a way to charge his mobile phone on it lol...

                    Yes indeed, it would be good to go back to the real topic: sound and power, like it's the main thing we're asking for such a device!

                    And we should be grateful for ASR tests and user feedbacks, without it I'd be more easily fooled by "marketing mumbo-jumbo" indeed

                    RME has decided to not implement TotalMix for their converters and my guess is that it would add significant expenses to the devices, both hardware as well as software. I don't think it's only a marketing segmentation thing.

                    TotalMix would be nice, though smile

                    154 (edited by KaiS 2022-07-14 07:23:13)

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    spnc wrote:

                    Or the other clown asking for a way to charge his mobile phone on it lol...

                    I’d say this is a valid request, even if there is no chance it will be realized, because it’s not covered by USB standard.

                    If this feature would be in, I would use it.

                    spnc wrote:

                    Yes indeed, it would be good to go back to the real topic: sound and power, like it's the main thing we're asking for such a device!

                    Personally I got my ADI-2 Pro because of its features like the equalizer, and that it’s a one stop shop for music listening on headphones.

                    Sound and power I see as a welcome by-product of ADI-2’s overall very high quality standard.
                    I can get those parts from my other DAC‘s and amps too, but not combined in such a sophisticated way.

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    About my request, its not because im lazy or dont have other means of charging my phone. Its about charging and using my phone in tandem with playback. A nice practical solution. To the apropriately nicked mr spunq. You prob belong at ASR where you can measure your d*** at 16 angles. Sorry to say it wont get any longer big_smile thats all I have to say about this

                    ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

                    156 (edited by spnc 2022-07-12 22:19:59)

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    Muffin wrote:
                    spnc wrote:
                    Happy_amateur wrote:

                    Im all in for this. Getting tired of people searching for the last volt for their Susvaras(which they prob havent bought yet)(..reading up on ASR too much smile ). Ofcourse ADI-2-dac/pro/2-4 should be able to drive anything given its aim for top contenders, but it isnt really a uniqe selling point these days. What will be the RME magic for the new device.

                    Then again, with only a few months left its all about the wait. Isnt it? big_smile

                    I'm all in for this too. Tired of people getting tired of people like you lol...

                    Or NoisyNarrowBandDevice asking for TotalMix integration when it's been said 1000 times here and there that TM is not for ADIs...

                    Or the other clown asking for a way to charge his mobile phone on it lol...

                    Yes indeed, it would be good to go back to the real topic: sound and power, like it's the main thing we're asking for such a device!

                    And we should be grateful for ASR tests and user feedbacks, without it I'd be more easily fooled by "marketing mumbo-jumbo" indeed

                    RME has decided to not implement TotalMix for their converters and my guess is that it would add significant expenses to the devices, both hardware as well as software. I don't think it's only a marketing segmentation thing.

                    TotalMix would be nice, though smile

                    Would be nice but I don't see what value (routing wise) it would add if you already own a RME interface supporting TotalMix?

                    157

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    Happy_amateur wrote:

                    About my request, its not because im lazy or dont have other means of charging my phone. Its about charging and using my phone in tandem with playback. A nice practical solution. To the apropriately nicked mr spunq. You prob belong at ASR where you can measure your d*** at 16 angles. Sorry to say it wont get any longer big_smile thats all I have to say about this

                    Ah okay 'playback' too yeah I get it.

                    158

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    Think someone might already have mentioned it, but a dedicated software to control and easily edit all the settings and EQ curves would be a nice addition. Of course with the possibility to back up/load settings and presets in case one needs to exchange the unit for some reason.

                    On a second note I actually think that the possibility to back up/load EQ presets could be a big selling point for some audiophiles. The ADI-2 got a lot of attention within the audiophile headphones community, and there seams to be surprisingly many that really don't understand how to use an EQ (besides the basic bass/treble knobs found on hifi stuff). But if those people can download someone else's pre-made curves for their specific headphone model they might be more interested in buying the ADI-2/4. Just a thought.

                    (And yes, I too would love to see an instrument Hi-Z input and maybe a mic preamp, just to get rid of a second box. But I'm rather sure that want happen.)

                    159

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    M25 wrote:

                    Think someone might already have mentioned it, but a dedicated software to control and easily edit all the settings and EQ curves would be a nice addition. Of course with the possibility to back up/load settings and presets in case one needs to exchange the unit for some reason.

                    On a second note I actually think that the possibility to back up/load EQ presets could be a big selling point for some audiophiles. The ADI-2 got a lot of attention within the audiophile headphones community, and there seams to be surprisingly many that really don't understand how to use an EQ (besides the basic bass/treble knobs found on hifi stuff). But if those people can download someone else's pre-made curves for their specific headphone model they might be more interested in buying the ADI-2/4. Just a thought.

                    (And yes, I too would love to see an instrument Hi-Z input and maybe a mic preamp, just to get rid of a second box. But I'm rather sure that want happen.)

                    +1

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    +1

                    BR Ramses
                    UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

                    161

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    Pervasive_Silicon wrote:

                    I saw the two prototypes of the new ADI-2/4 at the High End 2022.
                    This new device would be the opportunity to use a larger chassis and not just increase the depth.
                    By doing so there would be more space at the front panel for a larger display and additional buttons or encoder.
                    This could help to greatly improve the usability but also heat dissipation.
                    At the back you could have more connectors and get rid of the Sub-D adapter.
                    Besides the features requests above additional features could be:
                    1. Add WiFi to enable app support and control the ADI-2 remotely
                    2. Additional line level inputs relay controlled to route analog sources directly the outputs.
                    3. I could even envision a streaming option to further reduce my HiFi stack :-)

                    The new linear PSU can be also used with the other ADI-2 and will be according to RME „expensive“.
                    I guess the new Pro will be equipped with the new top AKM A/D and DAC chips :-)

                    I would just like to respectfully disagree with all of these propositions one through three. Furthermore I would like ANY propositions that add size to the unit removed from the ballot. All of these add size, weight and complexity to this device that work directly against its greatest accomplishment: Its ability to run off of a battery, compact size and portability!

                    So to be clear: I submit a Vote of no on propositions 1,2 & 3. Thank you and I hope we have your votes in November!.

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    I'm guessing the change in ADC chip will mean improvement in specs? So this new unit will be an even better measuring device?

                    163

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    In several ways - yes.

                    Regards
                    Matthias Carstens
                    RME

                    164

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    > I'm guessing the change in ADC chip will mean improvement in specs? So this new unit will be an even better measuring device?

                    Right.  Lower noise. Adjustable and lower 2nd and 3rd thd. And most importantly you will see flat noise floor up to 200khz.
                    Not possible with current akm chip at all due to the noise shaping at much lower cut off frequency

                    Re: ADI-2/4 Prototyp

                    Requesting 2 Features for ADI FS (and Beyond) for Mastering Use-case:

                    1.) Please Included Rackmount Ears

                    2.) Please Include software feature which includes profiles for "Headphone Monitors" being used, so that we may offset the headphone signatures in order to hear linear/flat reference from the audio itself into the headphones.... (it'd be a nice feature for speaker style monitor models as well).