• Registered: 2022-10-21
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Topic: Looking for good tutorials/videos on using TM FX with Logic Pro X

I've read through the manual and I have to say I'm still a bit stumped.  I've been able to record on several tracks using the UFX II and Logic Pro X, but I'm still not clear exactly how the DAW fits into the whole thing, how to set levels correctly, and how to play back what I've recorded -- particularly without hearing what's coming into the HW inputs at playback time.

As I understand it, the three windows in TM FX are the hardware input window, whose faders don't affect what's sent to the DAW (only the gain knob does?), the software playback window (this is what comes OUT of Logic? Does it include Logic FX?  Is it what's being recorded in Logic?  Or only playback?), and the hardware output window (so this includes what's being sent to any of the output jacks, including the main studio monitor line outs and headphones?).

Where does Logic fit into all of this?  That is, do the faders in the HW input window affect the level that's sent to Logic? 

How do I mute all incoming signal if I want to hear what I've recorded in Logic, that is, play it back?

Clearly I'm a bit confused, but I have to say the manual -- as comprehensive as it is -- doesn't clarify things that well.

I'm also confused about the level settings, part of which is due to my audio engineering ignorance.  +4dBu vs -10dBv?  What level do I generally want?

Long story short, I'm looking for alternate resources to get me up and running quickly with basic recording, monitoring and playback functions.  I've gone through the ones on the RME website/YouTube channel, and I found these (https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … al-Videos/), but would welcome any suggestions, particularly as relates to recording in Logic.

(I'd prefer not to switch to DAW mode -- I am keen to understand how TM FX works.  I know I want use most of the funcionality for now, but I'd like to start on the right path).

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2022-12-14 04:22:44)

  • waedi
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Re: Looking for good tutorials/videos on using TM FX with Logic Pro X

sawsinepulse wrote:

I've read through the manual and I have to say I'm still a bit stumped.  I've been able to record on several tracks using the UFX II and Logic Pro X, but I'm still not clear exactly how the DAW fits into the whole thing, how to set levels correctly, and how to play back what I've recorded -- particularly without hearing what's coming into the HW inputs at playback time.

As I understand it, the three windows in TM FX are the hardware input window, whose faders don't affect what's sent to the DAW (only the gain knob does?), the software playback window (this is what comes OUT of Logic? Does it include Logic FX?  Is it what's being recorded in Logic?  Or only playback?), and the hardware output window (so this includes what's being sent to any of the output jacks, including the main studio monitor line outs and headphones?).

     Yes you are right !


Where does Logic fit into all of this? 
     To the audio input and output of the audio interface.
     The input channels of Totalmix are available for recording in Logic as Input channels.
     Logic output channels are the same as (or connected to) the software playback channels in TM.

That is, do the faders in the HW input window affect the level that's sent to Logic?
     No.
     Keep in mind Totalmix is mainly a monitoring software.
     The input signals from your instruments and mics are fully transmitted to Logic to the input channels. 

How do I mute all incoming signal if I want to hear what I've recorded in Logic, that is, play it back?
     This is too advanced for a short answer from my side.
     Many ways...

Clearly I'm a bit confused, but I have to say the manual -- as comprehensive as it is -- doesn't clarify things that well.
     Because your question is for one situation of countless other situations.
     But you will find out it is probably possible with selecting a previous stored snapshot by one click.

I'm also confused about the level settings, part of which is due to my audio engineering ignorance.  +4dBu vs -10dBv?  What level do I generally want?
     -10dBv for something that comes in with low signal (typically an electric guitar)
     +4dBu for everything else line signals, Keyboard, Synthesizer, Analog mixer, CD-player etc.

Long story short, I'm looking for alternate resources to get me up and running quickly with basic recording, monitoring and playback functions.  I've gone through the ones on the RME website/YouTube channel, and I found these (https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … al-Videos/), but would welcome any suggestions, particularly as relates to recording in Logic.
     Do you need English or do you like it in German ?
     I know a German Youtuber for LogicPro tutorials Martin Wolfinger
     And Jonas his Recording-Blog is in General for Homerecording

(I'd prefer not to switch to DAW mode -- I am keen to understand how TM FX works.  I know I want use most of the funcionality for now, but I'd like to start on the right path).

     You ARE on the right path !
     You have one of the best audiointerfaces and a mindblowing DAW !

     Spend time with it and success will happen. From what you already know - no problem.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-12-14 14:53:24)

  • ramses
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Re: Looking for good tutorials/videos on using TM FX with Logic Pro X

@waedi: please quote properly. It's very uncomfortably to read your post with your answers not easily distinguishable from his questions.

@saw..:
-10 dBV is consumer level typically being used by consumer devices usually being connected unbalanced an using quite short cables up to 3 or 5m
+4dBu is studio level. It's hotter signal in combination with balanced connections (with a circuit filtering out unwanted noise) it supports longer cable length needed in studio environments.
At inputs and outputs different reference levels might be offered (device dependend)  on an analog circuit basis, so that SNR and dynamic can be optimized for the type of device being connected.

At inputs a higher reflevel makes the input more insensitive to support hotter signals and to have more threshold.
At outputs a higher reference level creates more output level.

You need to look what levels the connected device supports and set the levels accordingly so that it fits best without overloading an input of your recording device or the input of the connected device.

With active monitors it is different, there you usually select the lowest reflevel so that it's not getting too loud (to avoid level mismatches).

Regarding DAW and recording, this is a bigger topic and typing through smartphone is a pain. Maybe more later, here a few comments.

If you hear inputs through your monitors during playback then you either might have activated a monitor symbol at one or more DAW tracks for direct monitoring (simply don't do this) or you are routing audio from HW inputs to your active monitor.

In Totalmix FX every HW output has an individual submix. In submix mode select a HW output and you can determine from the fader positions of top (hw inputs) an middle row (audio from PC) the submix for this HW output.
At the base of input and sw playback faders you see the name of the selected output.

Check that submix mode is activated (right side blue area) and select (in the bottom row) the HW output where your monitor is connected to. Usually AN1/2 Out or "Main Out" in case you assigned the output to the TM FX control room to have control room functions (Dim, Recall, Mono, Talkback, External In and Mute FX).

Now the fader positions of
- top row, audio from HW inputs (with near-zero latency)
- middle row, Audio from PC (with the additional latency over USB/...)
show you the submix which audio channels are being routed to your monitors.
TIP: toggling the little button "sub" on the right side shows only those channels that route audio to the selected output/submix.

If you do not want audio from the inputs, we'll then turn all faders of top row down and save this in the snapshot for audio to monitors.

Further Information you will find here, also sources to a step by step primer that I wrote.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34394

You can also simulate  DAW mode in totalmix full mode by using one of the reset mix options.
Starting from there you can make further adjustments.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-12-14 14:04:18)

  • ramses
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Re: Looking for good tutorials/videos on using TM FX with Logic Pro X

How the DAW fits into the picture...

Audio from HW inputs is passed unmodified to the DAW for recording purposes.

Audio to HW outputs are sent from PC/DAW for monitoring or playback purposes.

Most people send only the DAWs stereo sum to the main output, in most cases to Analog 1/2 Out, where active monitors are connected to.

If you are in DAW mode then audio would be send straight to the HW output AN 1/2 Out.
The middle row does not exist in DAW mode. You can only route audio in the DAW.

This means that all monitoring that you do has the full round trip latency (RTL). This is the time for AD and DA, 2x the transport over USB and processing in the DAW.

RTL can become quite big with ASIO buffersizes of 256 and higher at single speed. RTL is here over 10ms (usually around 13ms).
For staying under 10ms you need ASIO buffersizes of 128 or lower.

There is one thing that helps, ASIO direct monitoring, as the monitoring is being performed directly on the recording interface in "near real-time". Then you have only the much lower converter latency for AD and DA conversion compared to the full RTL.

But there are situations where you need more flexibility in terms of routing (outside of the DAW) where TM FX full mode shines.

Example: monitor mix for a Vocalists phones

If the vocalist would hear his voice with the delay of the full RTL, then it can be that he gets out of tempo if this delay is too high.
In such a case you can easily change the routing in TotalMix Full mode by sending the vocalists audio in near-realtime directly from  hw input to the hw output where his phones are connected to.

In TM FX full mode audio from PC is not directly being send to the real HW Outputs.
Instead of this audio arrives at the so called SW playbacks (the middle row that you do not have in DAW mode).

Now in "full mode" TM FX acts like a patch bay.
For every HW output you can create an individual submix of
- audio from HW inputs in near-realtime
- audio from PC with higher latency depending on the ASIO buffersize.
Easiest this is being achieved in submix mode by clicking to an HW output and then moving faders of top and middle row to create the submix that you need for this particular output.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-12-14 16:31:00)

  • ramses
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Re: Looking for good tutorials/videos on using TM FX with Logic Pro X

Check this article in my blog for further information, its available in German and English:

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … rnal-equi/

Other postings from me about explaining and making good use of TM FX:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 40#p190740

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 94#p185994

Take your time, also Rome has not been built in a few days. First understand the basic concepts.
You may want to check my primer, see above and watch RME videos.
After that a everything will be much easier, also reading the fine manual.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14