1 Topic by n00btrax (edited by n00btrax 2023-01-03 01:14:36)

  • Registered: 2023-01-03
  • Posts: 5

Topic: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

I could do with some help choosing an interface. I'm not a professional by any means, but I know some stuff. I keep being told that RME have the best latency and stability due to their custom drivers. That is what interests me. But I'm used to seeing interfaces chock full of microphone inputs, and many of the RME offerings only have 2 or 4.

I don't run a studio or anything. I just guerilla record in whatever rooms I can cheaply get my hands on. Either with a laptop, or I take my desktop there. Here are the two scenarios I work in.

When tracking drums:

    1.    Kick In
    2.    Kick Out
    3.    Snare Top Dynamic
    4.    Snare Top Condenser
    5.    Snare Bottom
    6.    Floor Tom Low
    7.    Floor Tom High
    8.    Mid Tom
    9.    High Tom
    10.    Overhead Left
    11.    Overhead Right
    12.    Room Left
    13.    Room Right
    14.    Far Room Left
    15.    Far Room Right
    16.    Mono Kit

When working at home:

    1.    Guitar cab microphone
    2.    Vocal microphone
    3.    Bass Station II Line Input
    4.    Spare Synth Input 2
    5.    Spare Synth Input 3
    6.    Spare Synth Input 4
    7.    Guitar HI-Z
    8.    Bass Hi-Z


So ultimately, I need 16 microphone pre's across some kind configuration. My computer does have Thunderbolt, but I just read that the UFX+ has been EOL'd due to parts anyway, so I guess I can forget about Thunderbolt for now.

I don't really know what MADI is. So I see those products and have no idea how to utilise them.

My chief concerns are stability, latency, number of microphone pre's, having some line-outs for reamping purposes, and a smattering of line and Hi-Z inputs for guitars and basses and things.

What sort of setup would you recommend??

I currently have a Presonus Quantum. I mostly record rock, metal, IDM, electronica, piano music, industrial, ambient, and found sounds.

  • From: Sweden
  • Registered: 2013-12-25
  • Posts: 190

Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

My simple suggestion: UFX II and two 8 channel mic pres, one connected analogue and one with toslink, to give you max 20 channels of audio up to 96 kHz.
Add a porwer strip and you have a very portable 4HU rig.

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-01-03 10:06:56)

  • ramses
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

How is your max budget for such a solution? What sample rates do you want to use? Do you stay at single speed up to 48kHz, or do you want to use double speed as well?
Do you have a system, that you could make use of PCIe cards, or does it need to be USB based?

Ideal would be a MADI-based system which can be further expanded.
MADI supports up to 64ch at single speed, 32ch at double speed, 16ch at quad speed.
You can connect either one or multiple devices to the MADI "bus" by using multimode fiber (OM3 or OM4 standard).
Multiple devices can be chained one after the other and from the last device back to the recording interface.

Maximum cable length between devices is 2 km. Patch cables are available from ~0.5 m up to ~50 m.
This gives you great flexibility if you should have multiple rooms to distribute, e.g., preamps and AD/DA converter.

12Mic can be remote controlled by RME MIDI Remote AVB application via "MIDI over MADI". Instead of requiring MIDI cables with length restrictions, the remote control can be performed by sending MIDI data through MADI, by using unused bits of the MADI protocol for that purpose. An alternative to configure and control the 12Mic is remote via browser using the LAN adapter of the 12Mic.

Ideal for your purpose would be a combination of UFX+ and 12Mic, delivering you 4+12=16 excellent Mic pre-amps of equal quality with 75 dB gain. The cost would be approx 2700+2600=€5300.

This is the best setup that you can get, high quality and best possibilities for the future in terms of expandability.
If this is over the budget, there are ways to reduce costs.
So please answer my questions at the beginning, to get an idea about your basic requirements which determine the further selection of components.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2016-06-14
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

ebmmbongo wrote:

My simple suggestion: UFX II and two 8 channel mic pres, one connected analogue and one with toslink, to give you max 20 channels of audio up to 96 kHz.
Add a porwer strip and you have a very portable 4HU rig.

This! Of course at 44.1 or 48 kHz you even could use both the Octamic preamps over ADAT and leave all the twelve analog inputs on the interface free for instruments or such.
As an option you could buy the slightly less expensive Fireface802 instead of the UFXII if you really don’t need features like DuRec (take your time to compare the two units). FF802 has not only USB but also Firewire, but I think that’s irrelevant for you?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-01-03 09:59:22)

  • ramses
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

If you compare 802 and UFX II you should pay attention to the following details:

With the UFX II you can store and recall the settings of your preamps in TotalMix FX.
This is extremely useful if you have a fix setup and want to be able to quickly recall proven settings.

The UFX II has some advantages over the 802
- Mic pres have 75 dB gain range
- uses the newer MADIface ASIO driver which supports also 32 sample ASIO buffersize if you should need lowest RTL in certain situations
- Autoset feature which is useful to e.g. quickly find a proper recording level for Mic and Instr inputs
- DURec feature for stand-alone recording or as backup to DAW recording
- Display where you can operate the unit even stand-alone without PC
- allows connection of ARC USB at the back, useful for stand-alone operation
- UFX II has the possibility to recall up to 6 user settings per display
- The instr inputs (Hi-Z) capacity is 1MOhm, which could be beneficial when connecting instruments directly
- Also the Instr inputs gain range is very nice, I use it for my guitar setup, so that I can re-amp at any time

Here my Excel where you can compare all details:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 9-19-xlsx/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • ramses
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

ebmmbongo wrote:

My simple suggestion: UFX II and two 8 channel mic pres, one connected analogue and one with toslink, to give you max 20 channels of audio up to 96 kHz.
Add a power strip, and you have a very portable 4HU rig.

At double speed, you loose ADAT channels due to multiplexing.
Then 2x ADAT I/O are not 16, but only 8 channels.

Therefore, I asked at the beginning not only for budget, but also whether he wants to stay at single speed recordings.

This is the typical use case for MADI ...

Or you need to choose a RayDAT with 4x ADAT I/O and connect a preamp which allows for double speed. Cheapest solution here, the RayDAT and up to 4x ADA8200. But then you need a Desktop PC or a solution with a TB-based PCIe expansion case.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • From: Sweden
  • Registered: 2013-12-25
  • Posts: 190

Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

ramses wrote:
ebmmbongo wrote:

My simple suggestion: UFX II and two 8 channel mic pres, one connected analogue and one with toslink, to give you max 20 channels of audio up to 96 kHz.
Add a power strip, and you have a very portable 4HU rig.

At double speed, you loose ADAT channels due to multiplexing.
Then 2x ADAT I/O are not 16, but only 8 channels.

Which is exactly the reason I specifically wrote "two 8 channel mic pres, one connected analogue and one with toslink".

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One
  • Registered: 2023-01-03
  • Posts: 5

Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

My budget is about £2000 initially. If getting a UFXII and adding pres to it later is the best approach here, I don't mind doing that. The Quantum cannot be run in standalone mode, but if I sell it, I could get some cheaper pre's to tide me over.

I want to be able to record at 44.1, 48, 88.2, and 96. Don't need to go any higher than that.

  • Registered: 2023-01-03
  • Posts: 5

Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

ramses wrote:

If you compare 802 and UFX II you should pay attention to the following details:

With the UFX II you can store and recall the settings of your preamps in TotalMix FX.
This is extremely useful if you have a fix setup and want to be able to quickly recall proven settings.

The UFX II has some advantages over the 802
- Mic pres have 75 dB gain range
- uses the newer MADIface ASIO driver which supports also 32 sample ASIO buffersize if you should need lowest RTL in certain situations
- Autoset feature which is useful to e.g. quickly find a proper recording level for Mic and Instr inputs
- DURec feature for stand-alone recording or as backup to DAW recording
- Display where you can operate the unit even stand-alone without PC
- allows connection of ARC USB at the back, useful for stand-alone operation
- UFX II has the possibility to recall up to 6 user settings per display
- The instr inputs (Hi-Z) capacity is 1MOhm, which could be beneficial when connecting instruments directly
- Also the Instr inputs gain range is very nice, I use it for my guitar setup, so that I can re-amp at any time

Here my Excel where you can compare all details:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 9-19-xlsx/

Much appreciated!

  • waedi
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  • Registered: 2020-12-08
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

n00btrax wrote:

I just guerilla record in whatever rooms I can cheaply get my hands on. Either with a laptop, or I take my desktop there. Here are the two scenarios I work in.

When tracking drums:

    1.    Kick In
    2.    Kick Out
    3.    Snare Top Dynamic
    4.    Snare Top Condenser
    5.    Snare Bottom
    6.    Floor Tom Low
    7.    Floor Tom High
    8.    Mid Tom
    9.    High Tom
    10.    Overhead Left
    11.    Overhead Right
    12.    Room Left
    13.    Room Right
    14.    Far Room Left
    15.    Far Room Right
    16.    Mono Kit

I got a headache !

i did many times mixing producing such guerilla recordings.
And I know these rooms well.
Meeting points for the village punks, ashtrays full of joint stumps, beer cans all over the place.
But a lot of fun !

For the drum mics I guarantee you, if I receive such recording session for mixing, first thing I do is delete.
4 mics will persist, the rest got deleted.
Overhead Left and Overhead Right , these are the most important.
Then one kick, outside in front of the kick drum, 20 to 40 cm in front of, in the center.
Then one snare bottom.
In some cases a hihat mic is useful.
Thats it.
all 5 condenser mics.

And the next tip: instrument !
Very overlooked most of the time, keep the drum in good shape !
No slices and holes in the skins, keep them in tune.
Check all the screws of the entire set.
And the footmachine is not allowed to squeeze like a gardendoor.
Bring it to the mechanic, wash it, put proper grease onto the chain.

With modern microphones and a highend RME interface you have the perfect equipment for recording every unwanted noise.
Mixed all together ends up in a garbage mountain.
The boomy boxy room sound will burry the music in a mud.

Spend some time and little money into the room and the instrument, this will improve your music production much more than expensive equipment. Good luck and happy recordings

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • From: Sweden
  • Registered: 2013-12-25
  • Posts: 190

Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

n00btrax wrote:

My budget is about £2000 initially. If getting a UFXII and adding pres to it later is the best approach here, I don't mind doing that. The Quantum cannot be run in standalone mode, but if I sell it, I could get some cheaper pre's to tide me over.

I want to be able to record at 44.1, 48, 88.2, and 96. Don't need to go any higher than that.

I stand by my initial suggestion then:) UFX II and then add first one, then another 8 channel preamp. Like RME Octamic II (or maybe Adient ASP880 or some other preamp which takes your fancy), which is cabale of delivering 96 k via two adat or 8 channels analogue into the UFX II.

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One
  • From: San Francisco CA US
  • Registered: 2008-03-04
  • Posts: 38

Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

I've always thought RME should really put together an online configuration utility to help people know what options meet their needs.  Their product line can be a little daunting.

FireFace800 (D 3.125, fw 2.77) Ryzen9 3950X, 570X Extrm4,  Win10 Prox64 1909, 32Gb DDR4-3600, GTX950
  • Registered: 2023-01-03
  • Posts: 5

Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

waedi wrote:
n00btrax wrote:

I just guerilla record in whatever rooms I can cheaply get my hands on. Either with a laptop, or I take my desktop there. Here are the two scenarios I work in.

When tracking drums:

    1.    Kick In
    2.    Kick Out
    3.    Snare Top Dynamic
    4.    Snare Top Condenser
    5.    Snare Bottom
    6.    Floor Tom Low
    7.    Floor Tom High
    8.    Mid Tom
    9.    High Tom
    10.    Overhead Left
    11.    Overhead Right
    12.    Room Left
    13.    Room Right
    14.    Far Room Left
    15.    Far Room Right
    16.    Mono Kit

I got a headache !

i did many times mixing producing such guerilla recordings.
And I know these rooms well.
Meeting points for the village punks, ashtrays full of joint stumps, beer cans all over the place.
But a lot of fun !

For the drum mics I guarantee you, if I receive such recording session for mixing, first thing I do is delete.
4 mics will persist, the rest got deleted.
Overhead Left and Overhead Right , these are the most important.
Then one kick, outside in front of the kick drum, 20 to 40 cm in front of, in the center.
Then one snare bottom.
In some cases a hihat mic is useful.
Thats it.
all 5 condenser mics.

And the next tip: instrument !
Very overlooked most of the time, keep the drum in good shape !
No slices and holes in the skins, keep them in tune.
Check all the screws of the entire set.
And the footmachine is not allowed to squeeze like a gardendoor.
Bring it to the mechanic, wash it, put proper grease onto the chain.

With modern microphones and a highend RME interface you have the perfect equipment for recording every unwanted noise.
Mixed all together ends up in a garbage mountain.
The boomy boxy room sound will burry the music in a mud.

Spend some time and little money into the room and the instrument, this will improve your music production much more than expensive equipment. Good luck and happy recordings

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that just because I used the word 'guerilla' that it means my recordings are amateur. They are not, and I know what I'm doing with that many mics. I bring room mics up for snare hits only, and keep them very low when kicks and toms are hitting - they are snare reinforcement microphones primarily. That tends to be my style.

'

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

ramses wrote:

Ideal for your purpose would be a combination of UFX+ and 12Mic, delivering you 4+12=16 excellent Mic pre-amps of equal quality with 75 dB gain. The cost would be approx 2700+2600=€5300.

UFX+ is out of production as far I know, so one needs a bit of luck to find one. Waiting for a successor…?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • ramses
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

ebmmbongo wrote:
ramses wrote:
ebmmbongo wrote:

My simple suggestion: UFX II and two 8 channel mic pres, one connected analogue and one with toslink, to give you max 20 channels of audio up to 96 kHz.
Add a power strip, and you have a very portable 4HU rig.

At double speed, you loose ADAT channels due to multiplexing.
Then 2x ADAT I/O are not 16, but only 8 channels.

Which is exactly the reason I specifically wrote "two 8 channel mic pres, one connected analogue and one with toslink".

Sorry, overlooked that.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2023-01-03
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

oli77sch wrote:
ramses wrote:

Ideal for your purpose would be a combination of UFX+ and 12Mic, delivering you 4+12=16 excellent Mic pre-amps of equal quality with 75 dB gain. The cost would be approx 2700+2600=€5300.

UFX+ is out of production as far I know, so one needs a bit of luck to find one. Waiting for a successor…?

Having trouble finding a UFXII as well to be honest!! I'm in the UK.

  • ramses
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

oli77sch wrote:
ramses wrote:

Ideal for your purpose would be a combination of UFX+ and 12Mic, delivering you 4+12=16 excellent Mic pre-amps of equal quality with 75 dB gain. The cost would be approx 2700+2600=€5300.

UFX+ is out of production as far I know, so one needs a bit of luck to find one. Waiting for a successor…?

I meant to wait for the successor.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • ramses
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

n00btrax wrote:
oli77sch wrote:
ramses wrote:

Ideal for your purpose would be a combination of UFX+ and 12Mic, delivering you 4+12=16 excellent Mic pre-amps of equal quality with 75 dB gain. The cost would be approx 2700+2600=€5300.

UFX+ is out of production as far I know, so one needs a bit of luck to find one. Waiting for a successor…?

Having trouble finding a UFXII as well to be honest!! I'm in the UK.

Yup, it's sadly not so easy these days with chip crisis and supply chain problems.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

ramses wrote:

Sorry, overlooked that.

No problem:)
(missing a like button)

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One

20 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-01-03 11:39:50)

  • ramses
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

SF_Green wrote:

I've always thought RME should really put together an online configuration utility to help people know what options meet their needs.  Their product line can be a little daunting.

Makes not much sense. The recording area is so varied that product advice should be individual.
We are here not at Mac Donald's, where you can easily put together your menu for €20 with 5 keystrokes.

Above all, such advice should also include your own (product) experience to point out useful features that may not be known to the interested party. Or to put together an environment that can be expanded in the future if required, without having to buy too many things new.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-12-06
  • Posts: 19

Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

I want ufx+ with 12mic setup but may need ufx II soon if new ufx+ wont appear in near future.
What is the best combination with available rme preamps products now to maximalize ufx II mic inputs count? 12mic would leave 4 unused channels via adat right? So maybe two octamics xtc via adat and one octamic II via line inputs? Is it correct or am I missing something? Not even sure if those products are available now because of the chip crisis…:)
Im a bit nooby so forgive me my lack of knowledge. Anyway thanks for help and btw, happy new year!

  • waedi
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

sinolonis wrote:

I want ufx+ with 12mic setup but may need ufx II soon if new ufx+ wont appear in near future.
What is the best combination with available rme preamps products now to maximalize ufx II mic inputs count? 12mic would leave 4 unused channels via adat right? So maybe two octamics xtc via adat and one octamic II via line inputs? Is it correct or am I missing something? Not even sure if those products are available now because of the chip crisis…:)
Im a bit nooby so forgive me my lack of knowledge. Anyway thanks for help and btw, happy new year!

Yes, you miss something.
The UFX II has two adat input, the 12Mic can submit all 12 mics into the interface, otherwise two Octamics will give you additional 16 mics.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

23 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-01-06 22:10:11)

  • ramses
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

@Sinolonis: please be so kind as to open a new thread for your demand, this thread is about n00btrax demand.
This makes communication much easier, thanks.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-12-06
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

Ok, sorry for confusion. Thought this thread was close to my thoughts and questions. Please ignore my posts.
Best regards

  • Muffin
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Re: Don't really understand the RME offerings and need some help choosing

sinolonis wrote:

Ok, sorry for confusion. Thought this thread was close to my thoughts and questions. Please ignore my posts.
Best regards

He did not mean that at all, only that threads can get a bit confusing and not focused on the first poster's question otherwise. So just post a new thread with your question.