Topic: Zero Latency Monitoring
Hi,
I am using an external preamp for recording. It is going into analog input 1.
How do I monitor the source coming directly into the ADI 2/4 Pro SE? (zero latency monitoring)
Thank you!
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RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → Zero Latency Monitoring
Hi,
I am using an external preamp for recording. It is going into analog input 1.
How do I monitor the source coming directly into the ADI 2/4 Pro SE? (zero latency monitoring)
Thank you!
Do you want to listen with a headphone or with loudspeakers connected to the analog outputs ?
I might be wrong but I'm not sure that's possible with the ADI 2/4, I think you can only monitor post ADC.
I am using an external preamp for recording. It is going into analog input 1.
How do I monitor the source coming directly into the ADI 2/4 Pro SE? (zero latency monitoring)
Just for listening to the input select “Analog” in the output’s I/O menu.
The ADI-2 series devices doesn’t support TotalMix, which is where ZLM is happening.
So, for monitoring the analog input along with a music playback, like for overdubbing a vocal track, with relatively low ASIO-latency you can use the software monitoring function of your DAW.
For ZLM a TotalMix capable interface like HDSPe AIO Pro, HDSPe RayDAT, or DigiFace USB needs to be added.
With ADI-2 alone, there are two hardware DIY soldering “hack” possibilities, that need specially configured adapter cables combining both channels 1/2 + 3/4 to a single headphones or line output.
Ask if you like details.
Do you want to listen with a headphone or with loudspeakers connected to the analog outputs ?
Hi Waedi,
Headphones
…For ZLM a TotalMix capable interface like HDSPe AIO Pro, HDSPe RayDAT, or DigiFace USB needs to be added.
If one of these interfaces are added, are they capable of bypassing the internal pre’s?
KaiS wrote:…For ZLM a TotalMix capable interface like HDSPe AIO Pro, HDSPe RayDAT, or DigiFace USB needs to be added.
If one of these interfaces are added, are they capable of bypassing the internal pre’s?
None of these devices have internal preamps....
None of these devices have internal preamps....
The DigiFace USB looks like the easiest to install being USB. Is there any difference in sound quality of the DigiFace USB as opposed to the other mentioned?
Thank you!
All are digital only so the sound quality comes from your ADI!
Thank you everyone!
Also, just checking but, does TotalMix FX play together well with Studio One?
waedi wrote:Do you want to listen with a headphone or with loudspeakers connected to the analog outputs ?
Headphones
In this case my mentioned hardware (“hack”) adapter cable would be the most cost-efficient solution, if you have headphones with balanced connections option.
All you need is an inexpensive replacement cable (to mod) for the headphones, plus 2 pc. 1/4“ TRS jacks, and some minor soldering skills.
A typical balanced headphones cable consists of 4 wires internally, that will be connected like this:
• Hot left, hot right –> Tip, Ring 3/4
• Cold left, cold right –> Tip, Ring 1/2
This combines the signals of output 1/2 and 3/4 without causing the short that a simple y-cable would.
Now you can play the Studio One music track on 1/2 while additionally monitoring the analog input on 3/4, adjust each individually.
vpj wrote:waedi wrote:Do you want to listen with a headphone or with loudspeakers connected to the analog outputs ?
Headphones
In this case my mentioned hardware (“hack”) adapter cable would be the most cost-efficient solution, if you have headphones with balanced connections option.
All you need is an inexpensive replacement cable (to mod) for the headphones, plus 2 pc. 1/4“ TRS jacks, and some minor soldering skills.
A typical balanced headphones cable consists of 4 wires internally, that will be connected like this:
• Hot left, hot right –> Tip, Ring 3/4
• Cold left, cold right –> Tip, Ring 1/2This combines the signals of output 1/2 and 3/4 without causing the short that a simple y-cable would.
Now you can play the Studio One music track on 1/2 while additionally monitoring the analog input on 3/4, adjust each individually.
I’m a little nervous of potentially voiding any warranty by doing this, but not opposed to getting the DigiFace USB if TotalMix FX works well with Studio One
Thank you everyone!
Also, just checking but, does TotalMix FX play together well with Studio One?
There's no direct interaction as such...
I just purchased the DigiFace USB and 2 Toslink cables
Hoping this works!
KaiS wrote:vpj wrote:Headphones
In this case my mentioned hardware (“hack”) adapter cable would be the most cost-efficient solution, if you have headphones with balanced connections option.
All you need is an inexpensive replacement cable (to mod) for the headphones, plus 2 pc. 1/4“ TRS jacks, and some minor soldering skills.
A typical balanced headphones cable consists of 4 wires internally, that will be connected like this:
• Hot left, hot right –> Tip, Ring 3/4
• Cold left, cold right –> Tip, Ring 1/2This combines the signals of output 1/2 and 3/4 without causing the short that a simple y-cable would.
Now you can play the Studio One music track on 1/2 while additionally monitoring the analog input on 3/4, adjust each individually.I’m a little nervous of potentially voiding any warranty by doing this, but not opposed to getting the DigiFace USB if TotalMix FX works well with Studio One
The adapter wouldn’t have the potential to break anything.
ADI-2’s headphones outs are protected against all odds.
If you go the DigiFace USB route you need an additional Optical to Coax converter to address ADI-2’s second input/channel.
Totalmix is self-contained and can be used independently as such, and even has the option to interact with DAWs.
I’m lost.
The DigiFace will work right?
I’m lost.
The DigiFace will work right?
Yes, and I have to correct myself:
No Optical to Coax converter for a 2nd signal path needed, as you mix all to one single headphones output with TotalMix.
Okay, sweet! Thank you for your help!!
Thank you everyone!
Also, just checking but, does TotalMix FX play together well with Studio One?
Yes, in the same way as with every other DAW.
I have the DigiFace USB connected to the computer via USB and to the ADI 2/4 via SPDIF
TotalMix recognizes the audio coming out of Output 1/2 (main mix) and also channel 3/4 (outboard gear)
On the ADI 2/4 my headphones are connected to PH 3/4 and source is set to SPDIF
I can hear the main mix
I see signal coming into Analog 1/2, but do not hear anything
I can hear the main mix
I see signal coming into Analog 1/2, but do not hear anything
Route the analog input signal to the main mix out, in TotalMix (with no latency) or your DAW (with ASIO latency, if the DAW has a record monitor function).
Some DAWs like Magix Sequoia and Samplitude, Steinberg Cubase and Nuendo, and some others, have ZLM via Totalmix built into their interface too.
This means, the DAW is steering the TotalMix routing, coupled to the DAW’s record monitoring function.
vpj wrote:I can hear the main mix
I see signal coming into Analog 1/2, but do not hear anything
Route the analog input signal to the main mix out, in TotalMix (with no latency) or your DAW (with ASIO latency, if the DAW has a record monitor function).
Some DAWs like Magix Sequoia and Samplitude, Steinberg Cubase and Nuendo, and some others, have ZLM via Totalmix built into their interface too.
This means, the DAW is steering the TotalMix routing, coupled to the DAW’s record monitoring function.
Sorry, I should clarify, I see signal for Analog 1/2 on the display of the ADI 2/4. I do not see signal coming within the input section of TotalMix.
Only for me to understand things right: in what mode do you use the ADI 2/4 now?
Only for me to understand things right: in what mode do you use the ADI 2/4 now?
Right now I have the ADI 2/4 running in-
Basic Mode: USB
CC-Mode: Multichannel
Right now I have the ADI 2/4 running in-
Basic Mode: USB
CC-Mode: Multichannel
USB modes can’t send the analog input’s signal to the Optical Out.
USB Mode makes sense with the ADI-2 connected via USB only, but you do use optical i/o only.
Try AD-DA Converter Mode, look at manual page 43 to see the routing options.
vpj wrote:Right now I have the ADI 2/4 running in-
Basic Mode: USB
CC-Mode: MultichannelUSB modes can’t send the analog input’s signal to the Optical Out.
USB Mode makes sense with the ADI-2 connected via USB only, but you do use optical i/o only.Try AD-DA Converter Mode, look at manual page 43 to see the routing options.
That’s why I asked!
AD-DA makes much more sense because there is now the Digiface USB for the connection to the computer.
The always reappearing question for ADI-2’s studio-like usage is:
Do I need RME TotalMix?
In most cases the answer is: No!
This answer simplifies a lot.
Only if very low latency monitoring is needed, the answer is: yes.
Then one has to decide which interface to add that includes TotalMix, as ADI-2 itself doesn’t have it.
The most cost-efficient solutions are:
• For laptops: DigiFace USB and, only optional, an Optical to AES converter to access both of ADI-2 Pro’s outputs independently if needed.
• For desktop computers: HDSPe RayDAT, or again Digiface USB.
@MC:
I suggest to think about making ADAT channel 3/4 accessibly in both ADI-2 “Pro”- versions.
This would simplify the interfacing with Digiface USB and other RME solutions a lot.
I’m aware about the 96 kHz sample rate limitation, and possibly quite some effort to implement this.
Now in TotalMix I have the following:
Software Playback: I see signal going out of 3/4 in TotalMix for outboard processing
Hardware Output: I see signal going out of 3/4 in TotalMix for outboard processing
Hardware Input: I see signal coming back into TotalMix on 1/2
But, now I am receiving a feedback loop for some reason
Is the hardware hack KaiS recommended the easiest solution?
If so, I might just return the DigiFace.
Is the hardware hack KaiS recommended the easiest solution?
If so, I might just return the DigiFace.
Of course it is, and the cheapest either, this is why I proposed it first.
Can you, or a friend, solder a little?
I can solder
I just might need some assistance with figuring out how to construct the hack
I’m using DT770 pro’s as far as headphones go
It looks like I can get headphone cable from Sweetwater:
I can solder
I just might need some assistance with figuring out how to construct the hack
I’m using DT770 pro’s as far as headphones goIt looks like I can get headphone cable from Sweetwater:
You need a 4-wire cable that goes with 2 wires individually to each cup.
Even if the right side wires runs through the left cup where the cable is mounted.
Probably you have to open up the left cup for re-wire.
This guy did it nicely, with a mini-xlr connector:
http://www.diyaudioblog.com/2015/05/bey … 4-pin.html
Or just use headphones with balanced cable option, like any Sennheiser.
Now in TotalMix I have the following:
Software Playback: I see signal going out of 3/4 in TotalMix for outboard processing
Hardware Output: I see signal going out of 3/4 in TotalMix for outboard processing
Hardware Input: I see signal coming back into TotalMix on 1/2
But, now I am receiving a feedback loop for some reason
In Totalmix, select the hardware out 3/4 by clicking on it to make it the active mix, then close the faders on hw inputs 1/2.
vpj wrote:I can solder
I just might need some assistance with figuring out how to construct the hack
I’m using DT770 pro’s as far as headphones goIt looks like I can get headphone cable from Sweetwater:
You need a 4-wire cable that goes with 2 wires individually to each cup.
Even if the right side wires runs through the left cup where the cable is mounted.Probably you have to open up the left cup for re-wire.
This guy did it nicely, with a mini-xlr connector:
http://www.diyaudioblog.com/2015/05/bey … 4-pin.htmlOr just use headphones with balanced cable option, like any Sennheiser.
Would these work?
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/hd-300-pro
Or, would it be possible to have you send me a list of components that would work and then I can purchase and assemble them?
I just want to make sure that whatever I buy will work properly.
With the HD 300 Pro, would I basically cut off the connecter at the bottom of the cable, pull back the shielding a little and attach the specified 2 wires to one TRS and the other two wires to another TRS
Or, am I off base with that? Lol
I tried to find out the cable config of this specific Sennheiser, but couldn’t find any information.
This one would be perfect, with the least of extra work.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/133037062026
Get it with 6,3 mm jack, unsolder the two wires that go to sleeve and solder them to tip and ring of a second 6.3 mmm jack.
Or this one:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/295641281923?ep … R8S5gaf3YQ
Sennheiser HD25 stock has the perfect cable config for the mod too, and sounds great IMO.
Thank you!
Just got the DT 770 Pro’s from the first Ebay link!
It’ll be a few weeks until they arrive, but will let you know when they get here!
Thank you again for the help, KaiS!
Hi KaiS,
The headphones just arrived and all I am seeing is 3 wires. Will this still work?
Can I split out the wire attached to the sleeve?
Thanks,
Vince
Custom Cans is going to provide a different cable!
Wooo
Custom Cans is going to provide a different cable!
Wooo
+1
Hi KaiS,
Got the new cable for the headphones.
Can you please provide a listing of what settings the RME should be on to configure it correctly?
Thank you!
Got the new cable for the headphones.
Can you please provide a listing of what settings the RME should be on to configure it correctly?
The idea is, to route the analog input signal directly, ADI-2/4 internal, to PH 3/4, while the DAW output, with the music to play along, goes to PH1/2.
As the special cable “mixes” PH1/2 and PH3/4, you can now listen to both at once - even set individual monitoring levels for each with ADI-2’s controls.
A fitting ADI-2/4 setting is:
USB-, Class Compliant Stereo- Mode, see manual page 42.
The source selection for both outs is under:
• I/O / Phones 1/2 / Settings / Source: USB (1/2)
• I/O / Phones 3/4 / Settings / Source: Analog
For some reason Phone Out 1/2 is greyed out from choosing a Source. It is on “Auto”.
Currently, when I try to use the setup, the mic input sound is coming out of the left ear & the DAW playback is coming from the right ear.
For some reason Phone Out 1/2 is greyed out from choosing a Source. It is on “Auto”.
That’s correct and no problem.
If you look at the block diagram on page 42 PH1/2 is already connected to playback channel 1/2, without a source select option.
Currently, when I try to use the setup, the mic input sound is coming out of the left ear & the DAW playback is coming from the right ear.
Then the two TRSs are not wired like I suggested.
Unsolder the left Ring and the right Tip connection, and re-solder in reverse.
This is how it should be then:
• Hot left, hot right –> Tip, Ring 3/4
• Cold left, cold right –> Tip, Ring 1/2
Is my cable wired like a standard balanced cable? And, it needs to be wired in a more unconventional method?
Is my cable wired like a standard balanced cable? And, it needs to be wired in a more unconventional method?
Exactly, if you have 2 TRSs it’s the ADI-2 Pro connection scheme for regular balanced operation, which we DON‘T want.
We even DON’T operate ADI-2 in balanced mode then!
Follow my instruction above.
Hope you can solder
BTW:
It might be better to reverse the connections in the Mini-XLR, if it makes sense to keep the mechanical cable arrangement including the splitter on the TRS side.
Only that in Mini XLR’s contacts are densely arranged, not a solder job for shaky hands.
1. Open both TRS.
2. Note down the wire colors for left Ring and right Tip connection.
3. Open the Mini XLR, take some photos how parts fit together.
The orientation of the metal strain relief is critical.
4. Reverse the two wires found in 2.
5. Check function.
6. Close Mini XLR.
If I rewire from the TRS connectors end and go with the configuration:
• Hot left, hot right –> Tip, Ring 3/4
• Cold left, cold right –> Tip, Ring 1/2
Is this compatible with the pinout of the ADI 2/4?
Is there any worries of damaging the equipment?
Thank you!
If I rewire from the TRS connectors end and go with the configuration:
• Hot left, hot right –> Tip, Ring 3/4
• Cold left, cold right –> Tip, Ring 1/2Is this compatible with the pinout of the ADI 2/4?
Is there any worries of damaging the equipment?
It is the same for ADI-2 Pro and ADI-2/4 SE.
The idea is to combine (= mix) the sound of both PH1/2 and PH3/4 outs into one ‘phone.
The signal runs from one amp to the other through the headphones.
This way the headphones serve as correct load for the amps, and the amps can work quite normal.
Just to hard wire the amps outputs directly together would not work, as one amp would load the other like a short circuit or worse.
ADI-2’s ‘phones outs have a lot of protections built in, so even in case or shorts nothing breaks.
Anyway, the proposed scheme doesn’t short anything, go for it.
Just another thought, can headphone 1/2 and headphone 3/4 be sent to a very small mixer and then headphones plugged into the mixer?
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