• Registered: 2012-04-12
  • Posts: 43

Topic: Select Submix via MIDI?

I have a few scripts in Reaper that send Note On/Off and CC messages to TotalMix. One of my scripts sends a CC message to drop down to -inf/restore the volume of a software playback channel. The problem is that, if I do not have the right submix selected (e.g., my main outs), then this script will work but won't drop the volume of the software playback channel in the relevant submix.

My question is: I've been looking for a MIDI message that will allow me just to select a new submix (after which I'd then run the above script). But I'm not finding anything in the manual or online.

Is this possible?

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-10-25 20:20:46)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,451

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

Select submix (fader) in third row:
- channel 1/2: BC 68/69 xx
- channel 3/4: BC 6A/6B xx
etc.
from page 87 user manual UCX ll, good user manual for everything.

You may also save a snapshot and recall it with the appropriate note.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by Miscreant (edited by Miscreant 2023-10-27 02:18:23)

  • Registered: 2012-04-12
  • Posts: 43

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

waedi wrote:

Select submix (fader) in third row:
- channel 1/2: BC 68/69 xx
- channel 3/4: BC 6A/6B xx
etc.
from page 87 user manual UCX ll, good user manual for everything.

You may also save a snapshot and recall it with the appropriate note.

Sorry--I should have been clearer: FireFace 800/TotalMix v1.78/Windows 10/Reaper. This might be available only on the UCX II, as I don't see it in my manual?

waedi wrote:

You may also save a snapshot and recall it with the appropriate note.

Would you mind elaborating? My snapshots don't save/recall that last-touched output/submix fader... And recall with it 'with the appropriate note', eg. a MIDI trigger? Not sure what you mean by that. Thanks!

4 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-10-27 02:24:08)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,451

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

Page 77 in the user manual FF800 tells this :

The first row in TotalMix is addressed by MIDI channels 1 up to 4, the middle row by channels 5 up to 8 and the bottom row by channels 9 up to 12.
16 Controller numbers are used: 102 up to 117 (= hex 66 to 75). With these 16 Controllers (= faders) and 4 MIDI channels each per row, up to 64 faders can be controlled per row.

And page 78 :
Select submix (fader) in third row:
- channel 1/2: BC 68/69 xx
- channel 3/4: BC 6A/6B xx
etc.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

5 Reply by Miscreant (edited by Miscreant 2023-10-27 02:25:17)

  • Registered: 2012-04-12
  • Posts: 43

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

waedi wrote:

Page 77 in the user manual FF800 tells this :

The first row in TotalMix is addressed by MIDI channels 1 up to 4, the middle row by channels 5 up to 8 and the bottom row by channels 9 up to 12.
16 Controller numbers are used: 102 up to 117 (= hex 66 to 75). With these 16 Controllers (= faders) and 4 MIDI channels each per row, up to 64 faders can be controlled per row.

Thanks, I do see that and have read this passage a good number of times. The problem I'm having is that the CC MIDI message I send requires I input a note value b/t 0-127. This means that each time I CC that submix via MIDI, I also have to set a value for the fader.

Contrast this with using the mouse just to select a submix, without doing anything to a fader. This is different, and it's what I'm asking about. I should have been clearer. Thanks again.

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,451

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

Miscreant wrote:

Would you mind elaborating? My snapshots don't save/recall that last-touched output/submix fader... And recall with it 'with the appropriate note', eg. a MIDI trigger? Not sure what you mean by that. Thanks!

With a key on a Midikeyboard you can recall a snapshot :
Snapshot 1: 36 / 54 / #F 3
Snapshot 2: 37 / 55 / G 3
Snapshot 3: 38 / 56 / #G 3
Snapshot 4: 39 / 57 / A 3
Snapshot 5: 3A / 58 / #A 3
Snapshot 6: 3B / 59 / B 3
Snapshot 7: 3C / 60 / C 4
Snapshot 8: 3D / 61 / #C 4

Activating the desired hardware output then need further action.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2012-04-12
  • Posts: 43

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

waedi wrote:
Miscreant wrote:

Would you mind elaborating? My snapshots don't save/recall that last-touched output/submix fader... And recall with it 'with the appropriate note', eg. a MIDI trigger? Not sure what you mean by that. Thanks!

Activating the desired hardware output then need further action.

Do you know what that is? That's what I need after a snapshot change, as this change alone doesn't recall the last-touched hardware out (last-touched before saving the snapshot, that is).

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,451

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

Miscreant wrote:

Thanks, I do see that and have read this passage a good number of times. The problem I'm having is that the CC MIDI message I send requires I input a note value b/t 0-127. This means that each time I CC that submix via MIDI, I also have to set a value for the fader.

Contrast this with using the mouse just to select a submix, without doing anything to a fader. This is different, and it's what I'm asking about. I should have been clearer. Thanks again.

Unfortunately for you, this seems to be the nature in this remote control architecture, the need for using a specific value instead of just selecting the fader...

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2012-04-12
  • Posts: 43

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

waedi wrote:
Miscreant wrote:

Thanks, I do see that and have read this passage a good number of times. The problem I'm having is that the CC MIDI message I send requires I input a note value b/t 0-127. This means that each time I CC that submix via MIDI, I also have to set a value for the fader.

Contrast this with using the mouse just to select a submix, without doing anything to a fader. This is different, and it's what I'm asking about. I should have been clearer. Thanks again.

Unfortunately for you, this seems to be the nature in this remote control architecture, the need for using a specific value instead of just selecting the fader...

Right, okay. Thanks. That's what I was suspecting...too bad. Thanks anyways for taking the time to help me out.

10 Reply by bsfreq (edited by bsfreq 2023-10-27 15:45:36)

  • bsfreq
  • S/Mux specialist
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2011-03-02
  • Posts: 244

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

waedi wrote:
Miscreant wrote:

Thanks, I do see that and have read this passage a good number of times. The problem I'm having is that the CC MIDI message I send requires I input a note value b/t 0-127. This means that each time I CC that submix via MIDI, I also have to set a value for the fader.

Contrast this with using the mouse just to select a submix, without doing anything to a fader. This is different, and it's what I'm asking about. I should have been clearer. Thanks again.

Unfortunately for you, this seems to be the nature in this remote control architecture, the need for using a specific value instead of just selecting the fader...

This is not the case. You can indeed select submixes without sending a fader value, as they have separate midi commands.
For example:

Fader of output 1-2 (AN 1/2 on babyface) = ch9, cc102, 0-127 / B8 66-67 xx (if monoed, then 102 (66) for ch1 and 103 (67) for ch2)

Notice the cc offset on select submix vs output fader, as ch13, cc102-103 is reserved for TRIM-mode

Select first submix (AN 1/2 on babyface): ch13, CC 104-105 (if monoed, then 104 for ch1 and 105 for ch2) / BC 68-69 xx (xx= 00 or 7F or whatever. This will not change the fader value.

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic
  • Registered: 2012-04-12
  • Posts: 43

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

bsfreq wrote:
waedi wrote:
Miscreant wrote:

Thanks, I do see that and have read this passage a good number of times. The problem I'm having is that the CC MIDI message I send requires I input a note value b/t 0-127. This means that each time I CC that submix via MIDI, I also have to set a value for the fader.

Contrast this with using the mouse just to select a submix, without doing anything to a fader. This is different, and it's what I'm asking about. I should have been clearer. Thanks again.

Unfortunately for you, this seems to be the nature in this remote control architecture, the need for using a specific value instead of just selecting the fader...

This is not the case. You can indeed select submixes without sending a fader value, as they have separate midi commands.
For example:

Fader of output 1-2 (AN 1/2 on babyface) = ch9, cc102, 0-127 / B8 66-67 xx (if monoed, then 102 (66) for ch1 and 103 (67) for ch2)

Notice the cc offset on select submix vs output fader, as ch13, cc102-103 is reserved for TRIM-mode

Select first submix (AN 1/2 on babyface): ch13, CC 104-105 (if monoed, then 104 for ch1 and 105 for ch2) / BC 68-69 xx (xx= 00 or 7F or whatever. This will not change the fader value.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out. To make sure I'm understanding--

Are you simply saying that changing the fader of output 1-2 requires cc102 sent via ch9, while selecting just a submix requires a cc104-105 sent via ch13, and that no matter what value I input b/t 0-127 will not impact the fader and is therefore null?

  • bsfreq
  • S/Mux specialist
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2011-03-02
  • Posts: 244

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

Miscreant wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to help me out. To make sure I'm understanding--

Are you simply saying that changing the fader of output 1-2 requires cc102 sent via ch9, while selecting just a submix requires a cc104-105 sent via ch13, and that no matter what value I input b/t 0-127 will not impact the fader and is therefore null?

Yes

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic
  • Registered: 2012-04-12
  • Posts: 43

Re: Select Submix via MIDI?

bsfreq wrote:
Miscreant wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to help me out. To make sure I'm understanding--

Are you simply saying that changing the fader of output 1-2 requires cc102 sent via ch9, while selecting just a submix requires a cc104-105 sent via ch13, and that no matter what value I input b/t 0-127 will not impact the fader and is therefore null?

Yes

Works perfectly. Thanks again for your help.