Topic: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Hello,

I would like to update my M1 Mac Studio to MacOS Sonoma. My RME Fireface 800 is currently still running on Ventura with driver 3.41 / firmware 1.71 and 2.77 without any problems.

Does this guarantee operation under Sonoma or is a newer driver installation required, which I should wait for.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Hi,

Fireface 800 (Driver 3.41 / Firmware 2.77) here running on M1 iMac with Sonoma 14.1 without any problems. There is never a guarantee of course.

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

The same here.

Fireface 800 (Driver 3.41 / Firmware 2.77) running on M1Pro MacBook Pro 14” with Sonoma 14.1 and all is ok!

Ciao!

Fireface 800, MacBook Pro M1Pro, macOS15.1.1, Logic Pro 11.1

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Hi,

Thank you very much for your feedback. I have done the update and everything is working fine :-)

Ciao!

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Hello everyone,
This is amazing news!
I have been on Mac OS Monterey with MacBook Pro M1 for some time because of plugin and orchestral libraries compatibility. Some weeks ago I was notified that all the developers had done their bit and It was ok to update to Ventura. At the same time I had been reading about Apple giving up on Firewire after Ventura and in fact I wrote to Apple about this, by suggesting that they should not force people to throw away perfectly working interfaces such as the Fireface 800 if they are not going to be recognised by Ventura and Sonoma.
I also wrote to Synthax /  RMe UK to double check but they informed me that the RME Fireface which uses firewire does work not only on Ventura but on Sonoma as well and they kindly send me this link here, where you guys are fine using Firewire 800 with Ventura and Sonoma!
So, I do not know what to think! The internet clearly states that Apple is not supporting Firewire on its core audio and here everything seems to point to the opposite. How is this possible? meaning if the support for Firewire has finished how you still use the firewire protocol with your interfaces?
Please let me know and thank you all in advance.

Audio Student

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Hi Audio Student,
the support for Fireware has not yet ended. It may end with one of the next Sonoma updates, but now everything is working perfectly.

Ciao,
Marco

Fireface 800, MacBook Pro M1Pro, macOS15.1.1, Logic Pro 11.1

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Dear Marco,
Thank you very much for your reply!

Prior to writing here I had gone to the Apple Discussions forum, where even Apogee Support was commenting about this.... Here is an extract from their reply and below it a link to the discussion :

Starting with macOS 13 Ventura, Apple has removed the Firewire CoreAudio driver upon which the Duet & Ensemble Firewire depend. The result is these devices will not work at all with Ventura or newer OS's. For continued use of these devices, please remain on macOS 12 Monterey or earlier.

Best Regards,
Apogee Support Department

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/25 … 8972238022

And there were other comments too, where Apple users were to start a petition asking Apple to continue the Firewire Support.

Anyway, its great news for now!

Best,
Audio Student

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

I have MBP M3 on Sonoma 14.1 and firewire settings doesn't open and my Fireface 800 is not recognized

Im not sure if anyone else has this problem but if its related to the loss of fw support I doubt apple will change course.

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Are the adapters recognized by the system report ? One by one without the interface.
The adapters shoud appear in the list under thunderbolt.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

10

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

audio student wrote:

Prior to writing here I had gone to the Apple Discussions forum, where even Apogee Support was commenting about this.... Here is an extract from their reply and below it a link to the discussion :

Starting with macOS 13 Ventura, Apple has removed the Firewire CoreAudio driver upon which the Duet & Ensemble Firewire depend. The result is these devices will not work at all with Ventura or newer OS's. For continued use of these devices, please remain on macOS 12 Monterey or earlier.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 05#p210105

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

waedi wrote:

Are the adapters recognized by the system report ? One by one without the interface.
The adapters shoud appear in the list under thunderbolt.

No, in System Information, TB HW tree does not show the first or second adapter. and even then, Fireface settings should open without the interface being plugged in, connected or recognized.

It's an M3 max on 14.1.   Since other people have had success with apple silicon i'm hoping a new driver would fix the problem or there's someone out there that has some troubleshooting tips.  I have disabled the kernel security setting in safe mode and disabled  system integrity protection. any other advice to get the driver working would eagerly accepted.

12 (edited by waedi 2024-02-06 05:54:51)

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Here the Fireface settings opens only when the interface is connected and recognized.
Your adapters seems to be broken...

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

waedi wrote:

… Your adapters seems to be broken...

And if in doubt I would recommend to use the original Apple adapters.

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Apfel wrote:
waedi wrote:

… Your adapters seems to be broken...

And if in doubt I would recommend to use the original Apple adapters.

They are Apple adapters and they're not broken because the interface works on my 2018 Mac mini

15 (edited by waedi 2024-02-07 04:04:23)

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

And this Mac mini has also Sonoma and the same drivers on ?
Checking the differences

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Sonoma 14.3.1 and still running.

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X

17 (edited by quattroquarti 2024-02-09 17:36:06)

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Apfel wrote:

Sonoma 14.3.1 and still running.

Oh yes!
Yeah!

Thanks!

Fireface 800, MacBook Pro M1Pro, macOS15.1.1, Logic Pro 11.1

18 (edited by felic 2024-05-03 18:59:47)

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Sonoma 14.4.1 doesn't recognize the Fireface 800 (latest Firmware/Version) anymore, TotalMix and Settings doesn't start either. Hardware connected with a original apple firewire => thunderbold adapter.

Its a shame as the hardware is still very reliable.

===
Correction:

I tried this on first start after the macos system update. That fails, s. above.
After another restart the FF 800 were recognized by the system and functions normally. Without reinstalling anything.

===

19 (edited by waedi 2024-05-03 18:54:56)

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

If you plug the thunderbolt adapter only to the mac, is it recognized correctly in the system report ?
There is a chance this adapter broke...

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

@waedi, thx for dig in. See my edited post. Puh, that puts a smile on my face ;-)

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Thanks for clearing this up.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Somebody knows if the FF800 works with Sonoma 14.5?

Thx

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

iMac M1, Sonoma 14.5, Fireface 800: Running!

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X

24 (edited by Macke 2024-05-15 19:23:32)

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Good to know, thanks! Sonoma was already on 14.4.1 when I upgraded from Mojave. I'm on a MacMini M2 pro now.
But ever since my FF800 behaves different: I always preferred my Mac to be clock master. This didn't work anymore with the Sonoma update. Samplerate was audibly drifting and didn't stabilize after changing from eg 44.1 kHz (system audio) to a Logic session with 48 kHz or back.
Now I made the FF clock master- have to adjust the sr each time manually in the FF-settings, when the project samplerate changes.
Mix wise it seems to work yet. But I'm a little afraid of the next recording session when a temporary drift of the sr affects the recording... Anyone with a similar experience?

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Macke wrote:

I always preferred my Mac to be clock master.

What do you mean by that? The computer cannot be clock master! But as long the interface isn't locked to some other equipment (e.g. ADAT or SPDIF converter set as master), it follows the sample rate of the software, at least with 'real' audio applications (Logic, Cubase or such). It's not the case with applications which use the system audio setting (Finder, browsers...). As it looks, core audio does some real time sample rate conversion. That's not new, my old MacBook with Catalina behaves the same as my Mac mini with Sonoma...

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

@Macke, I assume you combined your Mac and the FF800 via an aggregated Device in AMS? If yes, after creating the new aggregated device, did you select the Mac first - then the FF800 and made sure, the drift correction is checked for FF800?
You can verify this by checking in AMS that the first 2 Output Channels are assigned to your Mac (the blue channels in my pic). Channel 3 is the 1st Out of FF800, and so on... and of course, in Logic, the Aggregated Device has to be set as Audio Interface.

Just tried to reproduce your problem with my 802. My Mac Speakers are set as Clock Source. They can only handle Sample Rates from 44,1 up to 96 kHz:

https://i.ibb.co/2PJLFM9/ams.png
https://i.ibb.co/2PJLFM9/ams.png



Then, in Logic, it looks like this:


https://i.ibb.co/Fb0HfS2/logic.png
https://i.ibb.co/Fb0HfS2/logic.png

I can switch without any problems between 44,1 and 96 kHz. The 802 slightly follows, without touching anything in FF-Settings. No matter if i do this in Logic, or any other App. Both devices are pefectlty in sync. But i did not check the Latency/Buffersize etc. for now...

As you see, the 176,4 and 192 kHz are marked. Because, though the FF802 can handle these rates, the Mac can not. Even if the rates are selectable.

If i choose 176kHz - the FF802 switches, and of course, here the Sample Rate from the master has to be upscaled. Not good. I think that is what oli77sch means. It has more to do with physical laws (shannon-nyquist theorem), than with core audio itself. Without diving to deep here: The audio signal has to be altered by adding "non existent" information.

See 2.1) Setup 1  - in my post: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 88#p218588



The opposite is downscaling. Thats why you have no sync problems if you choose your FF800 as Master.
But i do not understand why you always have to set the Rate via FF-Setting. Did you set the FF800 as first device and as master and then the Mac with drift enabled (the Mac Channels should be the opposite of my first pic. 31/32 in my case and i think 29/30 for FF800).


Boys, i just wanted to share what i learned - but long time ago. So, not really sure, if i am 100% right.
Please correct me if i am wrong or misunderstood sth. Always happy to learn here from others. Thanks.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

maggie33 wrote:

@Macke, I assume you combined your Mac and the FF800 via an aggregated Device in AMS?

Ah, you’re probably right with this. That makes sense.
@Macke: for serious audio work on the Mac I highly recommend to avoid aggregate devices, the more when they can’t be synced over a word clock cable or such. Simply select the 'pure' Fireface 800 within Logic (or whatever app you go to use for the recording session) and you will have a stable system.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Apfel wrote:

iMac M1, Sonoma 14.5, Fireface 800: Running!


Thank you!

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Apfel wrote:

iMac M1, Sonoma 14.5, Fireface 800: Running!

Wow!
Great!!!
Thanks, Apfel!


Ciao,
Marco

Fireface 800, MacBook Pro M1Pro, macOS15.1.1, Logic Pro 11.1

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

Apfel wrote:

iMac M1, Sonoma 14.5, Fireface 800: Running!

Also here with Fireface 400 (same driver).

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

@maggie33 and @oli77sch: thank you very much for your input! I'll dig a little deeper when I'm at my room next week. What I can say by now is that I'm not using an aggregated device. Thanks again for now!

32 (edited by Macke 2024-05-23 20:40:37)

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

fwiw: switched again sometimes forth and back between my old (Intel/ Mojave) and new machine and equalized the settings of the driver. No more glitches yet with my Sonoma/ M2 machine. Can't actually tell what made the difference finally... but seems stable now. Thanks @maggie33 and @oli77sch again for your ideas!

Re: Fireface 800 and MacOS Sonoma ...

I’m running a Mac studio, M2 Max, with a fireface 800 in addition to a UCX and just updated the Mac operating system to Sonoma 14.5 (previously was running Ventura 13.6.7, Again, with no issues whatsoever.) Everything worked smoothly right off the bat no problems whatsoever.

Fireface is updated to driver version 3.41 and firmware version 2.77
UCX is updated two driver version 3.28B and firmware version 48.