You are not logged in. Please login or register.
RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Multiple devices in Totalmix
Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not possible to use two devices at the same time in Totalmix? When I read the manuals it only seems possible to have two connected and swap for one to the other. Why is it impossible to stack for example two FF802's to the same computer? I would like to expand my setup without replacing everything I have setup now and I am unsure if using Mac Aggregate device is to be trusted.
Totalmix represents the hardware interface, right ?
Apple has improved Aggregate device a lot in the years and today it's pretty stable with the new OS.
But for being on the very safe side, better buy the one interface that suits your demand.
You are stepping into Madi area already.
Thank you, but I would like to know about possibilities of expanding my current setup.
Stepping over to the MADI side is way too expensive for me. When I got the 802 that was actually a step above my budget, never expected to outgrow it.
swapping in Totalmix two interfaces is something I never tried, if this is possible than it's probably the max-out.
Totalmix itself shows all channels possible, it can't expand.
Using the existing Adat ports for having more analog inputs and outputs, that's all you can do.
@Naturligasteg
You may have several RME devices in TM and switch between them. I do not know if there is limit, but I have three RME devices in TM working at the same time. And TM shows even the old that I have used and do not use anymore...
RME manuals say that up to three RME devices may be used at the same time. It seems to me that it applies to driver, so if devices use different drivers it is probably more.... And someone on this forum said that 3 is tested amount and more devices may run, or not...
I do not use it and maybe I am not right, but I think one may open two instances of TM with different RME interfaces choosen. In that case one could see and operate/see more than one device at the time without switching device in TM. I am not sure about thi, one would have to try... I do not have TM at hand to try right now...
But in DAW/computer you will see all interfaces (that use the same driver) as one group. At least on Win. I guess, it should be the same on Mac. So, most probably no need for agregate device on Mac. But, Mac user would have to confirm it, if it is not mentioned in manual.
As already mentioned, if not using ADATs you may get preamp with AD and ADAT outputs and get up to 16 more channels (at 44/48 kHz). Would be probably beter than one more 802.
I did the same. I have FF 802 and RME Octamic II preamp.
Back to TM. I use FF 802, FF UCX and Digiface USB at the same time and no problem.
@Naturligasteg
You may have several RME devices in TM and switch between them. I do not know if there is limit, but I have three RME devices in TM working at the same time. And TM shows even the old that I have used and do not use anymore...RME manuals say that up to three RME devices may be used at the same time. It seems to me that it applies to driver, so if devices use different drivers it is probably more.... And someone on this forum said that 3 is tested amount and more devices may run, or not...
I do not use it and maybe I am not right, but I think one may open two instances of TM with different RME interfaces choosen. In that case one could see and operate/see more than one device at the time without switching device in TM. I am not sure about thi, one would have to try... I do not have TM at hand to try right now...
If I understand this correctly If I have two 802s in the same computer I can control them each separately in Totalmix, but what interest me most is when I open up my DAW (Cubase) I assume they will appear as two separate drivers for the units. When I look now it is listed as Fireface 802 and not as "RME Totalmix" So I assume if I get a second RME it will turn up as RME 802 B or Digiface and in the same driver? Correct?
I tried a little search on this forum, but failed. I'd like to read about the user with three in the same totalmix if you can point me to it.
Correct. One or the other or the Aggregate device.
Manual, page 33 (original 802, not the current FS model):
16. Using more than one Fireface
OS X supports the usage of more than one audio device within an audio software. This is done via the Core Audio function Aggregate Devices, which allows to combine several devices into one.
The current driver supports up to three Fireface 400 / 800 / 802. All units have to be in sync, i.e. have to receive valid sync information either via word clock or by feeding synchronized signals.
If one of the Firefaces is set to clock mode Master, all others have to be set to clock mode Slave, and have to be synced from the master, for example by feeding word clock. The clock modes of all units have to be set up correctly in the Fireface Settings dialog.
If all units are fed with a synchronous clock, i.e. all units show Sync in their Settings dialog, all channels can be used at once.
Note: TotalMix is part of the Fireface hardware. Up to three mixers are available, but these are separated and can't interchange data. Therefore a global mixer for all units is not possible.
In real-world an operation of more than one Fireface 802 might be difficult. Each further unit will lead to problems on the USB and FireWire bus, caused by the high number of channels. It makes more sense to connect external converters to the ADAT I/Os of the 802, adding up to 16 channels of analog record and analog playback.
Ok, seems like to get more than the 30 channels I have with my 802 I must use Aggregate device with what ever RME (or none RME) USB product I add to the Mac to expand my setup.
Is 30 channels of audio a problem with the USB-bus on the computer? I thought each USB port connetcor had its own number of data it can transmit. If it only affects simultaneous use of the channels with aggregate device I don't think I will run into problems. Most of the time I use maybe 10 channels of external audio from my synths. I just like to have them all connected so I can bring in a sound from any synth without having to rewire my setup.
Use 2 independent IOUSB Controller Ports (=no Hubs etc..)
The 2 Units sync their clock via Wordclock/ADAT, where (only) one is the Master.
I tried to sum up here about aggregated devices...
Your scenario would be as described in "2.3) Setup 3"
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 88#p218588
Is 30 channels of audio a problem with the USB-bus on the computer?
Recommended video about this: https://youtu.be/dSIf4QGYs-c?si=QjmVyt3nHTYqi8lg
But in DAW/computer you will see all interfaces (that use the same driver) as one group. At least on Win. I guess, it should be the same on Mac. So, most probably no need for agregate device on Mac. But, Mac user would have to confirm it, if it is not mentioned in manual.
Windows and macOS (core audio) are different beasts... on Mac, the only way to combine multiple interfaces is the aggregate device. I've never tested / used it extensively, but with two RME interfaces which use the same driver software and are properly clocked / synced together, it would work fine I assume.
I am not on Mac so I do not know. But are you sure that two RME interfaces (that use the same type of driver) are visible to user as two separate devices?
It is true on Win if using interfaces of different makes or RME interfaces using different type of driver. But using say FF UCX and FF 802 (use the same driver type) they show in DAW together which is handy on Win as it does not have agregate thing like Mac...
I am just curious, whether RME treats multiple interfaces differently or not. It is not clear even from manual excerpt presented in this thread.
Concerning USB2 and number of channels it can handle. It is roughly 70 at 44/48 kHz.
So, two FF 802 should be able to work on the same USB2 controller. But of course having each interface on separate USB controllers is much better.
Also, if input from synths is the main requirement..... Maybe Digiface USB that has 4 ADAT in/out sockets, so it can give 32 ins at 44/48. Aditional AD would be needed. But it has different driver type, so you would need aggregate device on Mac for sure. If wanting use it together with 802 at the same time.
Depending on what you need, you could also use DF USB only as sort of patch device reducing its 32 ins to 16 outs and feed that to 802 two ADATs. If 16 at time will do.
That is how I use DF USB.
analog I 4 x ADAT
i V
i DF USB
i i
v i 2 x ADAT
802<-
RME tests up to three interfaces, so officially / according to the manual, 3 is the maximum.
Whether the computer supports that many (channels) is another topic.
You need to clock sync the interfaces by either WC or using a digital link (SPDIF, ADAT, AES, MADI).
In TotalMix FX you have in the upper right a pull down menu, to select the interface.
Or you can open new TM FX windows, select the interface therein.
If you save/restore the workspace, then also the sizes and position of all TM FX windows are remembered / properly restored.
A general problem is, that you have no common "backplane" between those interfaces,
you have to route through the DAW if you want to route input/SW playback channels to the output of another interface.
Or you need to create digital connections (via ADAT) to route a few channels over ADAT.
But this is only for 8 channels and depending on sample rate you have only 4 and 2 channels at double/quad speed.
I am not on Mac so I do not know. But are you sure that two RME interfaces (that use the same type of driver) are visible to user as two separate devices?
Yes, it behaves exactly like that. Regardless of shared driver or not, there is no other way to combine two or more devices than creating an aggregate.
And just a fyi, you can have two tmfx windows open so see both at the same time. After you set that up a click on the tmfx icon opens both and closes both, very handy as I use a Babyface pro de and a hdsp9652 together. At least here on windows
And just a fyi, you can have two tmfx windows open so see both at the same time. After you set that up a click on the tmfx icon opens both and closes both, very handy as I use a Babyface pro de and a hdsp9652 together. At least here on windows
Also possible on Mac 
Kubrak wrote:I am not on Mac so I do not know. But are you sure that two RME interfaces (that use the same type of driver) are visible to user as two separate devices?
Yes, it behaves exactly like that. Regardless of shared driver or not, there is no other way to combine two or more devices than creating an aggregate.
Thank you. I only suspected this. From another source I have seen that using Aggregate Device adds 0.3ms latency per device. If that is true Aggregate is and acceptable solution for me to add a second RME unit. I am not sure there are any advantages from adding another 802 instead of a cheaper Digiface and a cheap ADAT ADDA converter like a third Octopre. Or is there some benefit of a second 802 that i can not see?
I can confirm that the aggregate works very well on mac now days so you could have your 2 x 802 showing 60 IO to your daw if you had enough Adat converters but you will still have 2 two windows with no ability to internal route signals between the 2 802s.
I’m wondering how you ended up with 2 x 802s instead of something like 1 x 802 and a couple of Adat expanders or one Ferrofish pulse. You end up with a lot more IO and no downside other than the different latencies of the different converters.
Kind regards
I can confirm that the aggregate works very well on mac now days so you could have your 2 x 802 showing 60 IO to your daw if you had enough Adat converters but you will still have 2 two windows with no ability to internal route signals between the 2 802s.
I’m wondering how you ended up with 2 x 802s instead of something like 1 x 802 and a couple of Adat expanders or one Ferrofish pulse. You end up with a lot more IO and no downside other than the different latencies of the different converters.
Kind regards
There was some indications that two units of the same model could use the same driver in Windows and it could be the same on the Mac. If that was true there would be no need to use Aggregate. But since that seems not to be the case the benefit of using an 802 would not be so strong compared to getting a Digiface. Not even sure if there is a benefit for not picking another USB interface entirely like a Scarlett 18i20 to expand my setup with more inputs.
You're not making a lot of sense to me with some of your comments so I will just say this - You haven't made it clear whether you have any adat IO expansion or simply just 2 802's. If you don't have any expansion then aggregate is a waste of time for you since both units together only provide 24 analog IO and the best way is to use the 2nd 802 is via adat like a regular adat expansion device to the first 802 whose driver the software will use and have 2 Totalmix windows but the TM window for the second 802 is only to initially set up the assignment of the 12 analog ins and outs to pass to/ from the adat ports.
Once setup you will work with one driver - not aggregate and you will have 24 IO. That's the maximum you can get with your available hardware.
You're not making a lot of sense to me with some of your comments so I will just say this - You haven't made it clear whether you have any adat IO expansion or simply just 2 802's. If you don't have any expansion then aggregate is a waste of time for you since both units together only provide 24 analog IO and the best way is to use the 2nd 802 is via adat like a regular adat expansion device to the first 802 whose driver the software will use and have 2 Totalmix windows but the TM window for the second 802 is only to initially set up the assignment of the 12 analog ins and outs to pass to/ from the adat ports.
Once setup you will work with one driver - not aggregate and you will have 24 IO. That's the maximum you can get with your available hardware.
Part 1. I have filled all the slots on my RME802 AND the two adat expanders that I have connected to it.
I read posts where people stated that in Windows if you have more than one unit of the same model they will use the same driver and it will show up in a DAW with the inputs of both devices. If that is true and was also true i Mac it would make sense to buy a second of the same. Now it is not.
So unless there is other benefits of having two of the same model I will probably get a cheaper second unit and merge it with my 802(and it expansions) with aggregate device.
Yes on Mac you only need to take care of sync. One thing to consider if you do have 2 devices with the same driver is that in the future you could also use them on windows if you ever need to.
Yes on Mac you only need to take care of sync. One thing to consider if you do have 2 devices with the same driver is that in the future you could also use them on windows if you ever need to.
+1
Beside the fact RME is probably also the most future proof solution regarding product support…
Yes on Mac you only need to take care of sync. One thing to consider if you do have 2 devices with the same driver is that in the future you could also use them on windows if you ever need to.
Do Fireface802 and FireFace802 FS share the same driver? Room EQ is a small upgrade.
Do Fireface802 and FireFace802 FS share the same driver? Room EQ is a small upgrade.
They do, of course only for USB, the 802 FS has no more FireWire. What driver version do you have on your Mac now? The 'old' 802 needs a firmware update for USB driverkit 4.10. Btw it’s also the same driver for Digiface USB…
Regarding Win... Not only the same interfaces run on the same driver, but also different ones. For example FF UCX and FF 802 run on the same driver and show up in DAW together.
On the other side Digiface USB runs on different driver than FFs. So, it is accesible in DAW only as a separate device....
I am using driver 4.09 forMac with my 802. Not upgrading until I am reasonably sure it will make something better.
Why isn't there a common driver for the units that work in Totalmix btw?
It is more question to RME. I think that that is because of historical reasons, different branches of HW had its own drivers... Maybe there is also some kind of technological (HW related) reason. And maybe, do not change things, if it works.
I personally prefer, that Digiface USB runs on different driver than Firefaces (on Win). Some nonDAW programs do not handle too many ins/outs comfortably. But I understand that others might prefer one driver for all devices...
-----------------------
If your question was related only to Mac. I do not know if all/most RME devices share the same driver, or not. Mac users would know.
I am using driver 4.09 forMac with my 802. Not upgrading until I am reasonably sure it will make something better.
Why isn't there a common driver for the units that work in Totalmix btw?
1. A smaller driver "to the point of the supported technology" is more efficient and easier to write, maintain and troubleshoot.
2. Other physic (FW, TB, PCI/PCIe, USB2, USB3) and regarding USB, different transfer modes supporting more channels
3. Supporting special product features of the HDSPe MADI FX (optimization of CPU utilization, Seamless Redundancy Operation)
Regarding Win... Not only the same interfaces run on the same driver, but also different ones. For example FF UCX and FF 802 run on the same driver and show up in DAW together.
On the other side Digiface USB runs on different driver than FFs. So, it is accesible in DAW only as a separate device....
OP uses Mac!
- Digiface USB runs on same driver as 802 on macOS but on different ones on Windows
- again: on macOS core audio aggregate devices is needed to use more than one interface at the same time, unlike Windows
I know he uses Mac. But he also spoke about Win. I was not sure if OP talks generally (Win/Mac) or just Mac.
And also other (Win) users may read it.
Maybe we have to consider that macOS has a different architecture.
On Windows, the ASIO driver fully bypasses Windows audio (mixer, sound infrastructure) and gives you direct hardware access to the recording interfaces. This is beneficial in terms of lowest latencies and that nothing in the OS can fiddle around with audio data.
On MacOS this is different. Everything has to use the audio subsystem of Apple. See the manuals in terms of extra buffers for macOS most likely for this reason, because the Apple libraries related to it are in use / in between.
What is a bit confusing to me is why two RME interfaces needs to be glued together with Aggregate in Mac if they use the same driver as mentioned above?
Anyway if it works good with Aggregate I am ok. I will get a Digiface or something from somewhere with open returns policy and give it a shot.
That's just how MacOS handles audio-interfaces. Windows works different. It has nothing to do with RME.
It's a very good idea to buy with open return option or try-before-buy.
I could imagine that with ASIO the access to multiple devices is handled in the driver, because it has direct HW access.
In macOS you have the Apple Sound system (Core Audio) in between. I am not sure if its absolutely right, but I read that in core audio every application can only access one device. By aggregating devices in core audio you take several physical interfaces and put it together into one virtual device so that the application can access them all.
The two operating systems simply have a different architecture.
… By aggregating devices in core audio you take several physical interfaces and put it together into one virtual device so that the application can access them all.
Yes, from the application’s 'view' it’s one single device then. Core audio handles the different i/o in the background. The cool thing is, one can combine different devices, e.g. an USB interface, a FireWire interface and the integrated audio hardware (headphone out or such) together. They have to be clock synced. I’m not sure how well such a heterogenous setup works. I can imagine, an aggregate of devices using the same driver is better in general.
At the end of the day you can also do this with ASIO4ALL in Windows.
But then it is an "unfortunate" setup because you break the clear design of ASIO, to have direct access to the device.
Instead, you add another driver layer between the Application and the RME ASIO driver.
And this is not a real ASIO driver. It uses all the different sound drivers / devices that exist in your Windows installation, also USB Mics and all this stuff and then unifies this and talks only ASIO protocol to the application.
From an application perspective, it appears like an ASIO driver, but in fact it isn't as there is no direct access to the hardware.
And the application is now also not using the RME driver anymore. By this, you can / are mixing now different driver standards with different intrinsics. Some might work lossless with low latencies, but some might not. And in Windows audio you have also extensions which can modify the sound or you might get lower quality by the use of the Windows mixer.
Biggest disadvantage: it is not supportable because nobody can tell precisely whether ASIO4ALL is generating issues or not.
With macOS aggregate device it is different because it is part of the OS and so it needs to be supported by Apple and by RME.
Afaik aggregate devices are there, but not supported, not by apple nor RME. Correct me when wrong.
That statement confuses me. Aggregated Devices is a feature built into and handled by macOS, so we don't need to 'support'
this feature in our drivers. It just works.
RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Multiple devices in Totalmix
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.