• Registered: 2010-03-30
  • Posts: 35

Topic: Increased latency with AES converter = normal?

Hi,

Not sure where to post this as it isn't strictly about my RME MADIFace Pro!

I've just upgraded my AD part of my ADDA master chain from the standard outputs of an SSL Alphalink SX, to a Lavry Black AD10. I've been using a DA10 for monitoring years and my plan was to get another DA10 or DA11 (or Benchmark) to have a 'poor mans high end' ADDA for mastering or master bus duties (or 2008's finest).

However, after adding the AD10 (connected to SSL Alphalink SX via AES) the round trip latency in Logic went from about 62 samples (with just the Alphalink DA to AD roundtrip) to 240 samples when using the AD10.

Anyone have a clue why the latency is 4x higher now? Is this normal for the Lavry/an AES connection?

The clock is set to AES, as is the Alphalink. I have an RME MADIFace Pro as the main USB audio interface/brain, using its internal clock. I've experimented with different clock sources, it made no difference.

Am I doing something wrong? (I hope so)

Thanks!

Mac Studio Ultra, MADIFace Pro, SSL Alphalink SX/Lavry AD10/DA10, macOS 14.3.1, Logic 11, SSL Matrix
  • Registered: 2010-03-30
  • Posts: 35

Re: Increased latency with AES converter = normal?

I've now hooked up clock via BNC cable from the Alphalink to the AD10 and the latency is now... 226 samples...

Also strangely, the Lavry is about 2db quiter than it should be... so when I do a loopback, the signal drops by just over 2db... do I perhaps have a faulty unit?

I'm hoping I've done something wrong in Totalmix, but I don't think so...

Mac Studio Ultra, MADIFace Pro, SSL Alphalink SX/Lavry AD10/DA10, macOS 14.3.1, Logic 11, SSL Matrix

3 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2024-06-05 10:37:30)

  • vinark
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Re: Increased latency with AES converter = normal?

If everything sounds undistorted and click free and all totalmix levels are set to 0db, then this is how it is. It is impossible, unless you ask the other companies, to know if it is the SSL or AD10 or both which cause the extra latency. The level drop might be intentional on the db10, only the manufacturer can tell you. But personally I would not worry about both if it sounds 100% ok

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2010-03-30
  • Posts: 35

Re: Increased latency with AES converter = normal?

Thank you - the latency is not such a huge issue (if it is as intended), however I am worried about the -2.3db difference when using the Lavry via AES...!

Can anybody think why this may be the case?

Mac Studio Ultra, MADIFace Pro, SSL Alphalink SX/Lavry AD10/DA10, macOS 14.3.1, Logic 11, SSL Matrix

5 Reply by The Beatsmith (edited by The Beatsmith 2024-06-05 13:04:34)

  • Registered: 2010-03-30
  • Posts: 35

Re: Increased latency with AES converter = normal?

Having done a bit of digging, the SSL Alphalink operates at +22dBu, while the Lavry DA10 and AD10 work at +24dBu. This is likely the issue.

If I do an 'all Lavry' DA10 -> AD10 round trip, the level does not drop and is within about 0.2db of not leaving the DAW. The latency @ 48Khz is 287 samples or just under 6ms. This is 62 samples for the SSL and a round trip (peak level wise) to within 0.3db...

To complicate things, the RME MADIFace Pro outputs works at +19dBu. I thought I would be able to mix/match between all three converters (SSL, RME, Lavry), but that doesn't seem to be the case. I haven't tried mix/matching converters before.

Hey, I'm not too old to learn...

Mac Studio Ultra, MADIFace Pro, SSL Alphalink SX/Lavry AD10/DA10, macOS 14.3.1, Logic 11, SSL Matrix

6 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2024-06-05 13:10:38)

  • vinark
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Re: Increased latency with AES converter = normal?

Of course depending on what you are going to do with it, I can not see any real problems.  Only if you would record with the different latency s, like a drum kit, you will get serious phase and sync issues, but I don't think this is your goal? If you are going to use it for inserting analogue mastering, that will have more effect on the levels, not on latency of course.
Cheers!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

7 Reply by The Beatsmith (edited by The Beatsmith 2024-06-05 13:18:30)

  • Registered: 2010-03-30
  • Posts: 35

Re: Increased latency with AES converter = normal?

Yes, I'm not too worried about the latency. I was just ignorant to the level change issue.

My goal is to use it:

1) To capture the summing from my analog desk
2) To use with another Lavry DA10 (when one comes up online) as part of an analog mastering chain.

An additional 6ms isn't too big of an issue.

I did want to use it with a patch bay to potentially use as my main AD converter and record 1 or 2 input devices/mics, but I don't think I would do that now, especially not mix/matching different converters.

Mac Studio Ultra, MADIFace Pro, SSL Alphalink SX/Lavry AD10/DA10, macOS 14.3.1, Logic 11, SSL Matrix

8 Reply by The Beatsmith (edited by The Beatsmith 2024-06-05 14:05:17)

  • Registered: 2010-03-30
  • Posts: 35

Re: Increased latency with AES converter = normal?

To keep things 'on topic' i.e. RME related - I did a test with the RME MADIFace Pro main outputs 1-2 into the SSL. This gives an incredible 36 samples latency.

31 samples of those are from AD of the SSL.... which means that the is only an amazing 5 samples of latency from the DA of the RME! smile

Mac Studio Ultra, MADIFace Pro, SSL Alphalink SX/Lavry AD10/DA10, macOS 14.3.1, Logic 11, SSL Matrix
  • vinark
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Re: Increased latency with AES converter = normal?

Yes that is one of the levels of progress in converter tech. Lower latency, mabey more so then significant audible quality improvement

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632