Topic: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

Hello, first time poster here. Sorry for the longish post.

I have a fairly new Mac Mini M2 and a USB based audio interface. No need to name call here, but it is red in color. The computer came preloaded with MacOS Sonoma, and I use it strictly for audio recording and playback. For recording I am using Logic Pro and various guitar amp plugins. For playback I am using Roon. The audio interface I have has good audio quality and general features and I/O count that I need. However it also has some "quality of life" issues that really annoy me. I am looking at an RME Fireface UCX II to replace it. I have been reading about the quality and robustness of the RME drivers and continued support even after the device is not produced. I am willing to spend the triple cost needed to upgrade but only if it is truly more robust and reliable. To that end, here are some questions I have and am hoping you all can provide constructive feedback.

1) Time to switch sample rates: My interface takes 5-6 seconds to change sample rates and this is true even if the rate doesn't actually change. (i.e. "switching" from 44.1 kHz to 44.1 kHz). This is not a problem with Logic Pro since it is set once when the project is loaded. However, this is a hassle when using Roon for music playback. I have Roon configured to delay actual playback for 6 seconds to prevent missing several seconds of the beginning of each song.

Roughly speaking, how long does it take for the UCX II to switch sample rates?

2) Mixer not functional on high sample rates: The configuration software for my interface disables the mixer when the sample rate is above 96 kHz. I don't use such high rates in Logic Pro for my own projects, however there plenty of songs recorded in such rates that stream in Roon via Tidal. I have to specifically configure the audio interface to allow this and disable the mixer. Kind of annoying to switch back and forth.

Is TotalMix FX fully functional in all sample rates? Another other limitations that might exist here?

3) Misbehaving on system sleep: The configuration software for my interface becomes unusable when the OS wakes up from sleep. It is unable to communicate with the audio hardware. Interestingly the rest of the OS and all other applications can use the interface without issue. It's just their own homegrown configuration app that can't deal with sleep/wake operations. To recover I have to power-cycle the interface and re-launch the app. Sometimes have to reboot the computer, and sometimes have to re-install the application. Super annoying.

I have found some threads on here regarding issues with RME and sleep. How is the stability here with RME?

4) Attenuated line-in: I have a Mackie mixer that I use for CD player, cassette player/recorder, and a custom guitar effects unit that outputs a -10 dBV line level. I believe that the mixer main out is +4 dBu level but feeding that into line-in on the interface seems to attenuate the level considerably. Instead of boosting the input gain, I am compensating by increasing the output from the mixer. It seems odd to me and I don't expect anyone here to be able to troubleshoot that. From reading the documentation of the UCX II, it appears that the reference level can be changed for each input. If so, that might help me out here.


The customer support for my existing interface is generally responsive, but their effective responses have been yeah that's all by design, can't be fixed and I should prevent my computer from going to sleep. I am not pleased with any of those responses. The chatter on the Internet regarding RME seems pretty positive compared to other manufacturers. I am concerned that the sleep issue may still exist in some form and that I may trade one set of problems for another. I'm looking for an interface that just works as one would expect. If it costs 3X to get that, so be it.

Thanks for your input.

2 (edited by waedi 2024-06-26 03:23:12)

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

1 a few seconds, opening the driver settings ( a small software) and select the desired sample rate from a drop-down menu.

2 yes fully functional

3 Re-awake issues have been solved with updates, Sonoma and RME works pretty fine together now.

4 Yes every hardware input has it's own settings in Totalmix

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 (edited by oli77sch 2024-06-26 07:29:17)

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

To point 1: related to what audio software one use and what exact apps are running in either foreground or background, such issues can happen with every interface probably. I recently had something like that which was related to DSP Quattro (audio editor) and another running app (don’t remember what it was).
Selected hardware was my RME Babyface pro! I suggest to check in what moments the sample rate issue happens and what software apps are involved.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

Regarding the 5-6 second time to change sample rates, it does not appear to be a software issue. I think anyway. This is how long the hardware takes to change and lock onto the newly requested rate. It is very consistent and the behavior does not alter based on the software app used. Also, does not matter if the computer has been running for days or just completed a boot. I can manually set it using the configuration/mixer app from the vendor, or it can be done automatically via Logic Pro, or Roon. I can also change it using the MacOS Audio Midi Setup app. In all cases the time to switch sample rates is 5-6 seconds.

By the way, thanks for responding to my queries. smile

5 (edited by ramses 2024-06-26 15:24:33)

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

I can only speak for Windows & RME ASIO driver. The sample rate changes immediately.
In this case, the recording interface is the clock master and the application tells the ASIO driver, which sample rate to use.
Even if the RME recording interface is clock slave to another clock SteadyClock technology ensures a very fast lock and sync to the sample rate and also removes any potential clock jitter to a high degree and distributes thus refreshed clock signals out on every digital output and Word Clock.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

Hmm, @waedi states it takes several seconds to switch sample rates but @ramses says it changes immediately. That's quite the discrepancy. Can either of you or anyone else comment on that?

Thanks

7 (edited by ramses 2024-06-26 17:55:06)

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

djmuoio wrote:

Hmm, @waedi states it takes several seconds to switch sample rates but @ramses says it changes immediately. That's quite the discrepancy. Can either of you or anyone else comment on that?

Thanks

If you read closely (check the signatures), I am using Windows, waedi uses macOS.

I just validated it again by double-clicking to two auto-playlists in the MusicBee Player (a music player which supports ASIO driver). One autoplay list for single speed and the other for double speed music content.

I created them 1 or 2 years ago because I involved myself to convince the dev of MusicBee to invest some time to make sample rate changes possible in the software. As many people have music content in the library with different sample rates. As soon as a new song plays, the sample rate is changed immediately without a noticeable delay.

Otherwise, I know RME products very well and understand how Steadyclock works, that RME products can lock extremely fast to other clock sources. You can also see information about this in RME videos:
https://rme-audio.de/steadyclock-fs.html

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

In addition to my post above I would like to clarify that normally (so without 'interfering' apps or such) it takes less than a second to change the sample rate on all my different RME interfaces and on different Mac computers.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

I think waedi meant, it takes some seconds to open the FF Settings App AND find the Menu to select the new Sample Rate. :-)

I use a FF802 on Mac, Win and Linux... The Samplerate changes immediately after selecting it. The OS or App is not relevant for this.
Regarding Mac: In Audio Midi Setup, or in the FF Settings App or any other App (which has the capabilities):
If you select a new Samplerate, it just switches. Adhoc!

Maybe one Point, which ist Apple - related: If you have Logic open, the Projects Samplerate is the "King". That means, CoreAudio assigns the control of the units Samplerate to Logic as exclusive Master. No other app can access it until you "release" the device in Logic. Anyhow, this makes absolutely sense for me. But as you already had experience with Logic and Mac - I am sure, you noticed that yourself.

Another thing: You cannot control the IN/OUT Volume Levels in AMS or in the MacOS Audio Settings (The global MacOS Volume Sliders) with drivers installed and in USB Mode. The slider is just greyed out. But you can do this with Totalmix or in any DAW/App which gives Access to the unique channels.

Anyhow - if you consider buying a UCX II, maybe 2 Tipps:

1) Always a good idea is reading the manual before buying.
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ucx2_e.pdf

2) And Totalmix FX is free available for all. A nice feature is, you can set a "Offline Device" and "emulate" all units, choose UFX II there... and you can try out TM by your own, as you would have a UFX II connected...
Latest TM version 1.95 here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 55#p220555




BTW: It would be interesting (just for me) which interface you are talking about. No bashing or sth... Focusrite?

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

It might be easier to watch the RME tutorial videos first and then to check the manuals.

All further information / info sources summarized here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34394

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

magie33,

My interpretation of what waedi stated is the same as yours. Time to navigate a UI does not count. wink It sounds like from subsequent responses that time to switch sample rates is nearly instantaneous from a human perception point of view. If so, then that's great.

Yes I am using a Focusrite interface. In fact I have two of them. A Scarlett Solo and a Clarett+ 4Pre. I have the Solo for laptop portable use. The Solo changes sample rates near instantaneously . However, the Clarett+ apparently (according to tech support) has internal relays it uses to switch out different circuits/chipsets based on the chosen sample rate. That's why it takes so long to switch.

I have looked over the manual for the UCX II. I posted my questions here because I wanted feedback from people with real world experience with RME.

12 (edited by ramses 2024-06-26 20:52:01)

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

At least with Windows, you do not need to open an app to change the sample rate.
The application sets the sample rate automatically through the ASIO driver.

Is this different with macOS? Doesn't the application itself change the sample rate itself?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

ramses,

Yes this is the same in MacOS as well. All the various comments about how to select a sample rate in apps/drivers has added confusion to the discussion. The issues I have with my Clarett+ 4Pre taking 5-6 seconds to change sample rates is directly related to the hardware itself. What software is used to select that sample rate is not a factor.

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

ramses,

Same on Macs...  Apps can change the rate. or whatever. But if Logic is open, it grabs it for itself as exclusive...
I tried to explain here:

In Audio Midi Setup, or in the FF Settings App or any other App (which has the capabilities):
If you select a new Samplerate, it just switches. Adhoc!
Maybe one Point, which ist Apple - related: If you have Logic open, the Projects Samplerate is the "King". That means, CoreAudio assigns the control of the units Samplerate to Logic as exclusive Master. No other app can access it until you "release" the device in Logic.

djmuoio,

Your questions make absolutely sense.
I can only tell my own experiences...  A friend owns a UCX I and a FF800 - Even if none is a UCX II, but if i sum up (including my old FF802) - i am 100% sure: You will not notice any lags by switching the rate.
You should decide by your own.

I try to be as neutral as possible...

And thanks for your confirmation about my suggestion ;-) I know people owning similar Units you described, they told about same issues... Thats why i asked.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

That an application locks the sample rate is normal, how should a device support multiple sample rates?
Then the answer to his question is, that with RME he won't have any noticeable delay.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

ramses,

Thus, it gets off-topic, maybe i was not precise enough:
NO (!). Its not "normal" that an (=every?) app locks the rate. Only certain Apps (like Logic) do that.

Then the answer to his question is, that with RME he won't have any noticeable delay.

Thanks for finally summing up.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I now have an RME Fireface UCX II being delivered today! After I spend time getting familiar, I'll report back with my experience with it.

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

I've had the UCX II for almost a week and I love it! Every issue I had with my previous (vendor) interface is resolved with RME. So far I have no issues at all and I am using the newer (MacOS) DriverKit driver. I also have the ARC-USB which is a great accessory to have. The only "negative" at all is the learning curve with TotalMix FX. There's plenty of YouTube videos out there that pretty well show how it works. I haven't mastered all the features yet but I can do what I want without confusion. It's super powerful.

My wallet is a bit lighter now but was very much worth it!

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

ramses wrote:

I created them 1 or 2 years ago because I involved myself to convince the dev of MusicBee to invest some time to make sample rate changes possible in the software. As many people have music content in the library with different sample rates. As soon as a new song plays, the sample rate is changed immediately without a noticeable delay.

Thanks for your effort, MusicBee is perfect for this use case!

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

20 (edited by ramses 2024-07-03 15:51:36)

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

Nice to hear.

List of tutorial videos here in my blog
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … al-Videos/

Please check also this:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34394

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

Jeff wrote:
ramses wrote:

I created them 1 or 2 years ago because I involved myself to convince the dev of MusicBee to invest some time to make sample rate changes possible in the software. As many people have music content in the library with different sample rates. As soon as a new song plays, the sample rate is changed immediately without a noticeable delay.

Thanks for your effort, MusicBee is perfect for this use case!

Thanks, Jeff, very kind from you :-)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

22 (edited by tonpalt 2024-07-03 20:29:12)

Re: Considering switching to RME with MacOS

Thanks OP

Wonderful to read how a well-argued doubt has been transformed and developed into a source of opinion, knowledge and generosity.

I also come from Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 (I still use it as a DAC in my "Home-Cinema") and Clarett 4Pre, I love them and I won't sell it but when I received my UCX II felt the same as you ... expensive but worth it!! Hopefully my last Audio Interface (who knows?).

Let's enjoy and learning smile

UCX II FW106/34/104 v1.253 TM1.97 - PC Win11 23H2 / Fedora WS 41 - Reaper 7.27