Re: Room EQ, Crossfeed, Triple SPDIF - UFX+, UFX II, UFX III, UCX II
Man, I’m still waiting and reallllllyyyy hoping for the 802fs Room Eq…
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RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Room EQ, Crossfeed, Triple SPDIF - UFX+, UFX II, UFX III, UCX II
Man, I’m still waiting and reallllllyyyy hoping for the 802fs Room Eq…
First of all: great to have the Room EQ features added, makes a Fireface interesting for my use case!
Some questions:
- Are all nine Room EQ PEQs usable below 300 Hz?
- Do all these PEQs have Q up to 9.9?
- What is the frequency resolution of these PEQs, I.e. can I adjust the middle frequency per single Hz or per 10Hz or...?
Reason for asking is that my ADI 2 Pro FS R BE has quite some restrictions regarding PEQs making this feature quite uninteresting for dealing with room bass resonances.
Feature request: would it be possible to add a bass mono feature for vinyl playback like the one implemented into the ADI 2/4 Pro SE? This could be just another crossfeed option for two analog inputs (stereo pair). Would be useful to reduce rumble and noise.
Some questions:
- Are all nine Room EQ PEQs usable below 300 Hz?
Yes
- Do all these PEQs have Q up to 9.9?
Yes
- What is the frequency resolution of these PEQs, I.e. can I adjust the middle frequency per single Hz or per 10Hz or...?
**Single freq up to 200Hz then in steps of 10Hz up to 2kHz, then steps of 100Hz
**(please correct me if I am wrong)
Thank you Matt.
Sounds very usable, so I will probably swap my minidsp with a Fireface.
UCX II, Win 11, driver 1249, TM 1.93, DSP 31.
One pair of Monitors is connected via AES. RoomEQ is activated for 9 bands. When setting up the second, 3-band EQ, on this channel (AES), at some point there was a strong pop and the sound on the monitors disappeared. Now the sound in the monitors is only audible if the 3-band EQ is disabled. When turning the 3-band EQ on/off, the same pop is constantly heard. When changing the volume level of this AES output channel, every step is a bang. If there is no signal from the player, then the 3-band EQ can be turned on/off without a pop. With 3-band EQ turned on, if I turn on the player, a pop sounds and there is no sound. Channel indicator are working. Disabling RoomEQ on this channel does not change the situation.
(On the second, analog output channel, both channel equalizers work well.)
WHAT COULD BE THE PROBLEM?
Can you send us a workspace with all settings set so that the sound is lost?
Dear Matthias, I sent it in a personal message to your email.
If you order, I will post it here in a message on the forum.
Thank you!
Files received, thanks. We'll check.
Now that was easy
Change Q in band 3 (20 kHz) from 0.4 to 0.5 and it will work. We check how to fix this.
Surprisingly, this fixed the problem ,
Thanks a lot, Matthias!
I’m just 2 days into owning my new UFX 3. Was excited to use the room eq, delays and trims to calibrate my Atmos speaker system and move this job away from Logic pro’s Atmos master bus.
Loving this whole experience so far but have a a small feature request for TM.
You would think that 9 bands of eq may be enough to calibrate some speakers in a well treated room but even high end speakers like Dutch and Dutch offer 18 bands of eq in their dsp (I don’t own them) this is to say that so far I have needed to use Totalmix’ s regular 3 band eq a few times in addition to the room eq to get a speaker or two calibrated.
So the feature request is simply to be able have the 3 band eq and the room eq windows both visible at the same time. That’s it.
Kind regrads
It might be user configurable feature in TM. User would see and have ability to configure in one window either just room EQ or room EQ together with 3 band EQ. And it would be visible which band belongs to which qroup of EQs.
So, one could see (and modify) either impact of just Room EQ or combined impact of Room EQ and 3 band EQ.
IMHO it would be just pure interface thing of TM and does not require more DSP or any change in fimware of interfaces.
But yes, it might require pretty much of programming in TM interface.....
Hi Everyone, i have searched and have not found an exact answer for what options are available for HPF and LPF filters.
Im looking to puchase a UFX III to handle my stereo and new 7.1.4 atmos system, and was hoping to rely on it for bass management (which i understand how to setup in totalmix) but i was told by one user who owns the UFX III that the LPF's available are different than the HPFs in totalmix RoomEQ and can cause some issues in this scenario/make it challenging.
Can anyone confirm specifically what EQ options are availalb for RoomEQ or channel EQ HPF/LPFs in the current totalmix?
It might be user configurable feature in TM. User would see and have ability to configure in one window either just room EQ or room EQ together with 3 band EQ. And it would be visible which band belongs to which qroup of EQs.
So, one could see (and modify) either impact of just Room EQ or combined impact of Room EQ and 3 band EQ.
IMHO it would be just pure interface thing of TM and does not require more DSP or any change in fimware of interfaces.
But yes, it might require pretty much of programming in TM interface.....
It seems it would use more resources since the 3-band EQ is stored in Snapshots and Room EQ currently isn't. In another one of your posts you didn't appear to see the point of storing Room OK in snapshots. Some ARC USB are probably not happy about this. Since RME don't seem interested in implementing this feature either, at this point I'd be beating a dead horse, so a while ago I decided to stop using the built FX entirely and switched to using a DAW (Reaper in this case) as a monitor controller. After setting things up, the results is surprisingly reliable and considerably more powerful and versatile than TMFX, as you'd expect since any routing and plugin can be used. The small price to pay is a tiny few extra ms of latency, which I can live with. Now I'm no longer limited to a certain number of EQ bands for example, and I can use any compressor I want. Even better, I can recall any number of very complex mixer snapshots (not just 8) using MIDI. Merit where it's due though, for computer-less operation and ultra-low latency though it's nice of RME to provide on-board FX.
Hi Everyone, i have searched and have not found an exact answer for what options are available for HPF and LPF filters.
These are explained in the current manuals, available online.
Im looking to puchase a UFX III to handle my stereo and new 7.1.4 atmos system, and was hoping to rely on it for bass management (which i understand how to setup in totalmix) but i was told by one user who owns the UFX III that the LPF's available are different than the HPFs in totalmix RoomEQ and can cause some issues in this scenario/make it challenging.
Misleading info. LPFs and HPFs are identical in Room EQ and 3-band PEQ, and have the same values/parameters to set. The extra Low Cut, which is a separated filter, is different.
bowmansound wrote:Hi Everyone, i have searched and have not found an exact answer for what options are available for HPF and LPF filters.
These are explained in the current manuals, available online.
bowmansound wrote:Im looking to puchase a UFX III to handle my stereo and new 7.1.4 atmos system, and was hoping to rely on it for bass management (which i understand how to setup in totalmix) but i was told by one user who owns the UFX III that the LPF's available are different than the HPFs in totalmix RoomEQ and can cause some issues in this scenario/make it challenging.
Misleading info. LPFs and HPFs are identical in Room EQ and 3-band PEQ, and have the same values/parameters to set. The extra Low Cut, which is a separated filter, is different.
Thank you for the reply!
I had searched for a manual but i was looking for a totalmix manual, and didn't clue in that it was a part of the hardware's manual which totally makes sense in retrospect.
Sorry the comment from the other engineer i was referring to was not that the filters between the PEQ and room EQ are different, but, that the available HPF and LPF in the EQ do not match up, so when doing bass management depending on the slope you choose, a LPF option and HPF option might not totally correspond. Which i hope is incorrect!
I see in the UFX III manual there is a "Lo Cut" option that is adjustable between 6, 12, 18 and 24 dB per octave. Are the same options available for a Hi Cut (LPF)? In the manual i can only find that "Low Pass Mode" is an option, but doesn't specify any details from what i can see. I just want to make sure that this is able to match with the db/oct slopes that are available with the Lo Cut, or at least some of them.
These are explained in the current manuals, available online.
Misleading info. LPFs and HPFs are identical in Room EQ and 3-band PEQ, and have the same values/parameters to set. The extra Low Cut, which is a separated filter, is different.
The issue is not the Room EQ, as you can't low pass your surrounds for bass management from the physical output row.
What is needed is to do a low pass on the Sub channel output that matches and has a functional crossover with the speaker output high pass filters. The settings and filter style are different between the Lo Cut and the HPF on the channel EQ. Can't really be certain what the crossover is actually doing when setting it up this way.
I have a dedicated sub just for bass management.
Sorry the comment from the other engineer i was referring to was not that the filters between the PEQ and room EQ are different, but, that the available HPF and LPF in the EQ do not match up
They do. No clue what is meant here exactly, but when introducing the Room EQ we also made the Q values identical, and added LPF/HPF options to the existing ones so the 3-band PEQ is perfectly suited to builkd crazy crossovers...if you know how to do it...
[, so when doing bass management depending on the slope you choose, a LPF option and HPF option might not totally correspond. Which i hope is incorrect!
I see in the UFX III manual there is a "Lo Cut" option that is adjustable between 6, 12, 18 and 24 dB per octave. Are the same options available for a Hi Cut (LPF)?
I explained already that Low Cut is a different thing. HPF and LPF are directly available in the 3-band PEQ for bands 1 and 3.
I explained already that Low Cut is a different thing. HPF and LPF are directly available in the 3-band PEQ for bands 1 and 3.
I found the answer in another thread that you replied to I think. The Lo Cut is 12db/octave and Q=0.7
So if we used the lo cut for the speakers at 12db/oc and then used the HP filter on the 3band at Q=0.7, it should be the same curve/characteristic right?
The Lo Cut (LC) has a fixed Q of 0.5, adjustable dB/oct, and references its corner frequency at -3 dB.
The High Pass (and Low Pass) in the PEQ is fixed at 12 dB/oct, and references its corner frequency at -6 dB.
So Lo Cut (LC) should not be used in combination with the other filters as its settings must be very different to match.
I'm in the process of spec-ing out a high channel count (at least 32, perhaps up to 45) system for a research project where I plan to pipe audio from a UFX III to 1 or 2 M-32 DA's (possibly pro II) via MADI. I'm hoping to use the room EQ feature to tune the speaker dome with the help of REW. I have a few questions:
1) Is the current maximum number of room EQ channels 16 or 20? I've continually seen 20 in forums and videos, but the here the manual says "only" 16 on p. 64:
https://rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufx3_e.pdf
2) In either case, is there any chance of the channel count could increase in the near future? And if not, perhaps a better question:
3) (and sorry to derail the thread a bit...) Does anyone have any other recommendations for a (not too CPU taxing) solution to eq a large number of channels independently? I see that there are still a bunch more 3 band EQs available in TotalMix, but I'm afraid they won't be precise enough compared to the room EQ option... As an alternative to the room EQ feature, I'm looking at Genelec 8320A and Neumann KH 80 DSP for their ability to be tuned with calibration software/kits from the respective manufacturers, which are both attractive as the correction happens in the speakers, but I'm a bit worried about the potential blackbox nature of such a solution vs. calibration with REW + TotalMix
thanks,
-eric
It's 20 channels, manual will be updated with some more stuff soon. And the number will not rise, sorry.
Thanks Matthias!
Looks like RME Room EQ export from SoundID, has just gone live. (although you'll have to open SoundID reference to see the update, which is 5.12.0.49, at least for MacOS).
Awesome!!
Again, congrats on your rollout of room EQ; it seems like a hit! However, I feel dismayed that it hasn't come to the Babyface Pro FS. While I understand that this device has memory limitations, I suspect is has enough memory for a limited implementation of this new feature.
For example, I currently use REW and EQAPO for my room correction. On one output, I have 11 filters and on another I have seven, and these are mono filters—not stereo. For headphones, I use a vst plugin and that is the extent of it.
For myself, I would gladly sacrifice some other DSP in order to have room correction directly on the BF. Even if it were 10 mono filters on each output, that would suffice. For that, I would give reverb or even trade the existing three band EQ.
I hope you can find a way to do it even if it is just seven mono bands per output. Even if it is a simple text loading feature with no GUI! Nobody in 2024 should be without room EQ—especially RME users—whether they're in their studio or in the field with a portable interface.
Thank you for your consideration.
Post number xxxx answered xxxx times already!
!!! The Babyface PRO does not have a DSP chip !!!!
The currently running PEQ is a DSP emulation within the FPGA and does not allow any other features. Reverb/Echo are already running on the host CPU.
While memory (RAM) is also non-existent here the missing DSP alone makes it impossible to add.
Post number xxxx answered xxxx times already!
!!! The Babyface PRO does not have a DSP chip !!!!
The currently running PEQ is a DSP emulation within the FPGA and does not allow any other features. Reverb/Echo are already running on the host CPU.
While memory (RAM) is also non-existent here the missing DSP alone makes it impossible to add.
Thank you for your response. I did not see that this question was answered, my apologies.
room eq not working on babyface pro?
room eq not working on babyface pro?
Really?
room eq not working on babyface pro?
Yeah, it's not available on that device.
Hi, i'm having issues with the room eq, standard eq, and phase controls on the master channel since the update, the eq changes dont affect the output signal on the master channel.
On other outputs the room eq works great, the issue only exists on the master channel.
I'm using rme ucx ii
You use which TM FX version? 1.95 will work. But we are at 1.96 beta 7 now, see other thread.
I'm using version 1.96 beta 7. Tried uninstalling and reinstalling but still same issue. EQ, ROOM EQ, Phase controls on the master channel not working
Update: Issue is fixed after a couple reinstalls and computer reboots! Thx ))
I'm responding to your 8/6 email about the 1.96 beta of TM. I'm particularly interested in room EQ and wonder if this is or will be available for the original UCX. If it is currently available, what do I need to install? I'm on a Mac. Is there an OS requirement?
The Fireface UCX (blue faced original version) is not supporting the Room EQ feature, it does not have the required DSP resources.
Thanks. I'll have to weigh the value of room EQ then.
Thanks. I'll have to weigh the value of room EQ then.
Room EQ is essential, even if you don't implement it in an RME device. Mac has a number of ways to use output EQ. My site has a recent post on this topic with several relevant links if you want to read more.
rbpeirce wrote:Thanks. I'll have to weigh the value of room EQ then.
Room EQ is essential, even if you don't implement it in an RME device. Mac has a number of ways to use output EQ. My site has a recent post on this topic with several relevant links if you want to read more.
May I have a link?
Having so much fun with this! Many thanks again MC and other RME people that are involved!
Couple of questions, one of them is already been asked for a couple of times but not answered I believe. Could be my stupidity that I didn't see the answer or don't get it to work as I think it should work though (forget about the italic question then).
It would be nice to to see somewhere in the RoomEQ window which preset is loaded (recalled) by showing its name.
And also which curve is the resulting curve in a dark color or one with low opacity (when using SoundID as import source)
If this isn't possible it would be nice that you can see which curve you've loaded when you try to load another profile (via a 'v-sign', '*', or '×' before the preset for example).
It would be nice to have the ability to have sort of mix knob like in Sound ID, so that you can blend from 'speaker(s) untouched' until fully corrected via a knob 0 to 100%. - sometimes you want to have some more headroom (especially in the lows because of THD problems)
The ability to copy EQ settings from Left to Right or vice versa (perhaps by just using CTRL-C and CTRL-V + CTRL-R for neutral/reset)
It would be nice to have in an addition to the toggle on/off a option to have either a hot-select for the curves you want to select or an option to cycle trough the list of saved curves. <- this has been asked before by a couple of people.
What do you think of these feature requests?
After getting my 802 working solid om my Mac Sonoma I have been using it and not visited this forum for a year or so. Now I pleasantly surpriced see that the room eq feature I wished for back then is now reality. Sadly I notice that the 802 is not supported. I guess the DSP in 802 is a bit weaker than the updated 802FS, but if it matters I would gladly disable reverb and delay for Room EQ if it is a resource issue - never use the FX in my 802 anyway.
Sadly I notice that the 802 is not supported.
Yes, as a 802 owner - i understand you. But its not possible.
See https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 47#p211247
Sadly I notice that the 802 is not supported.
Yes, as a 802 owner - i understand you. But its not possible.
In that text Mathias says the 802 will not get it, but not why. Other interfaces was explained with "units without external DSP chip" which makes sense. Would be nice to know why the 802 can not get room eq, after all there is another version of EQ in the 802 now.
For the new Room EQ setting on my UFX III, it seems I can only change the filter type for bands 1, 8 and 9? So any filter in between these will always be a bell/peak filter type?
If so, when I try to do a shelf filter for band8 at 20Hz, I guess the software assumes I mean a high shelf filter because I'm using band 8 instead of band1?
I think a cleaner option is for the user to pick high or low shelf filter (instead of letting the software do it based on band number)... If there could also be a filter type option for each band (if possible) that'd be great. Also, having more than one low shelf filter is really almost required as that's where most small room acoustic issues are going to be (in the low frequencies).
I'm trying to copy headphone EQ settings from Oratory1990 on reddit or use custom generated PEQ filters I generate from https://autoeq.app/ However, I need to be able to specify a filter type for each band to use headphone EQ recommendations, as they can contain multiple low shelf filters, multiple high shelf filters and peak/bell filters.
Also your filter export function has a parsing error, so if you open the file in notepad++ or some text editor, it looks like this, where Band1Type should be Band1 Type.
<val e="REQ Band1Type" v="1.00,"/>
<val e="REQ Band8 Type" v="1.00,"/>
<val e="REQ Band9 Type" v="1.00,"/>
<val e="Chan Gain" v="0.00,"/>
Both these issues are on version 1.97 beta 2 (3).
I'm trying to copy headphone EQ settings from Oratory1990 on reddit or use custom generated PEQ filters I generate from https://autoeq.app/ However, I need to be able to specify a filter type for each band to use headphone EQ recommendations, as they can contain multiple low shelf filters, multiple high shelf filters and peak/bell filters.
Because i didnt want to copy/paste (and fiddeling) all these params manually, i made a modded javascript of the original js, provided by https://autoeq.app/ 2 moths ago...
- My idea is based on local override of the main.3996d468.js (normally served by the https://autoeq.app) in a browser.
- Tested with Safari and Google Chrome.
- I know, should be possible to pack it via electron or sth into an app, to be more easy to use - but - (as always, had no time ;-))
- Works with every Headphone and Profile-Target(inclusive Modifications)
- Just select your new-appeared option from the equaliser app dropdown and hit the download button!
I also shared this directly with 2,3 users from this forum for testing (especially the ADI-2 eq), but never got feedback.
Probably, because you need to fiddle a little with your browsers dev settings, maybe too complicated to get it to run??
Anyhow - maybe it is useful for someone...
Feel free to let me know if you need some help or if sth doesn't work as expected, or any other ideas.
My archive contains the js, some exported profiles, the images and a minimal readme
Get it here:
https://cloud.sndtek.de/s/fXERXcdsonAWW … .0.1b6.zip
Just a few impressions:
New options via mod:
TM roomEQ fixed:
TM roomEQ custom (experimental!):
ADI-2 fixed (importable via the ADI Remote App):
Enable the modded script (ex:in safari):
For the new Room EQ setting on my UFX III, it seems I can only change the filter type for bands 1, 8 and 9?
Correct.
So any filter in between these will always be a bell/peak filter type?
Yes.
If so, when I try to do a shelf filter for band8 at 20Hz, I guess the software assumes
It doesn't.
I mean a high shelf filter
The function is clearly shown on the button below band 1, 8 and 9, as symbol. 1 is low shelf, 8 and 9 are high shelf if Shelving is chosen from the mouse dialog.
If this is not enough you can also use the 3 band PEQ for a total of 12 bands and even more shelfs...
etc6849 wrote:If so, when I try to do a shelf filter for band8 at 20Hz, I guess the software assumes
It doesn't.
Hi Mathias,
Thanks! Is there a way to add the option to select a high or low shelf filter for all three filter type bottons?
Upon studying your response and looking again, this appears intentional as the filter type button changes to indicate shelf direction when comparing the far left filter type button to the right two filter buttons.
If you could provide the option for the user to select low or high shelf, that'd be much appreciated, but given all the other features you've implemented, you probably have a technical reason for not including it?
If this is not enough you can also use the 3 band PEQ for a total of 12 bands and even more shelfs...
I have a lot of headphones, and would have to adjust the 3 band PEQ every time I switch headphones... I think?
Thanks for sharing! That is much easier than defining the RME EQ parameters for each headphone I want to EQ
Because i didnt want to copy/paste (and fiddeling) all these params manually, i made a modded javascript of the original js, provided by https://autoeq.app/ 2 moths ago...
Get it here:
https://cloud.sndtek.de/s/fXERXcdsonAWW … .0.1b6.zip
would have to adjust the 3 band PEQ every time I switch headphones... I think?
- You can predefine the 16 preset slots for each headphone in the 3 band eq pane
- You can predefine the 16 preset slots for each headphone in the roomEQ pane
-> you have in sum 12 band, as MC said...
-> you can save the combination in snapshots, so you have to set it up only once...
-----
And regarding my earlier post: I just found a good description about local overrides. Ok, here for safari, but it basically works similar for chrome and firefox...
https://webkit.org/web-inspector/local- … -overrides
RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Room EQ, Crossfeed, Triple SPDIF - UFX+, UFX II, UFX III, UCX II
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