1 Topic by Chaos-Dynamics (edited by Chaos-Dynamics 2024-07-26 20:45:52)

  • Registered: 2024-07-26
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Topic: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

I bought a Fireface 800 but no matter what I try, I cannot get it recognized by the FireWire bus.
I tested it on three Mac's, an old iMac which has a FireWire 9pin connection running OSX 10.13. When looking at the FireWire bus it is searching and then gives a warning: device not recognized. When I turn off the Fireface the warning message disappears.
The red 'host' led on the Fireface stays red. I tried both a 6pin and a 9pin cable. The cable works fine because I have an other interface that works. I also have an other iMac which has thunderbolt 2 connection running OSX 10.15. On this machine the FireWire bus doesn't show anything. When connecting my other FireWire interface it works also fine. On this machine the computer gets stuck when booting with the Fireface on, as soon as I switch the Fireface off the machine boots. I looked for several solutions on the forum but nothing worked. I also tried connecting it to a Mac Mini with OSX10.15, here I used the Firewire to thunderbolt 2 adapter together with the thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter. Same results nothing recognized. I'm affright someone sold me a faulty device because the seller doesn't replay to my messages anymore. Because I tried it on three different Mac's with three different drivers I think it is not a driver problem.
Does anyone has an idea what else I could try to get it working because I get a little bit desperate after two days of troubleshooting and not getting any results so far.

I would appreciate the help.

Rick

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-07-27 02:08:19)

  • waedi
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Unfortunately I can't give you a trick other than contact the RME support via email and send in the unit for repair, seems to be broken firewire port or internal power supply fail.
Email support : support@rme-audio.com

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Thanks for your replay Waedi,

I had contact with RME support, Daniel asked me if I could test it with a PC.
My kids both have a PC but have no FireWire on those machines. I'm considering buying a Delock PCIe card with a Texas Instruments chipset, which should work. (fingers crossed)
The thing is I have four FireWire interfaces right now, some are old but still working great and I have only one Apple FireWire to Thunderbolt 2 adapter. These things are very hard to get and get pretty hot when in use. So just for backup sake I need a spare FireWire controller anyway.
I opened the Fireface yesterday and checked the connectors on the board, they look good, because I read some users had a connector coming loose from the pcb. What I also heard is that some people had succes with connecting a FireWire harddrive first and make sure it connects to the FireWire bus then daisy chain the Fireface  to it. I have a FireWire harddisk lying around so I will test this today, maybe it works. Also I heard that if the wrong bios is loaded in the Fireface there could be connection problems so If I can get it connected via PC, I could flash the bios. A firewire card comes in handy anyway for me, it's another 50 bucks but better than only depending on the Apple adapter alone.
If al this doesn't work I have to send the unit in for repair. And by the way I find it really great that RME still repairs these old units and once I have the money to buy me a new one it will definitely be RME because their drivers guarantee to update and work for years.

Thanks for your replay, Rick

  • waedi
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Great to hear.
Your task list has lots of good ideas and at the end when repaired or fixed you have a superbe audio interface.
It was the flagship a few years ago, the features and specs don't get lost.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

I tried the daisy chain option but that didn't fix the problem, I expected this but had a little hope it would work.
For now I will order the FireWire controller for PC and see if it connects and check if it's a possible bios issue.
That will basically be my last option to try, I tried many things like turning it on and wait for the host led to turn off when the login screen pops up, some users could establish connection this way. Also using the right hand side FireWire 9-pin connector worked for some people. Ah well I probably have to send the unit in for repair. If I ever get it working I will post the solution here.

  • Registered: 2024-07-20
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Chaos-Dynamics wrote:

Thanks for your replay Waedi,

I had contact with RME support, Daniel asked me if I could test it with a PC.
My kids both have a PC but have no FireWire on those machines. I'm considering buying a Delock PCIe card with a Texas Instruments chipset, which should work. (fingers crossed)
The thing is I have four FireWire interfaces right now, some are old but still working great and I have only one Apple FireWire to Thunderbolt 2 adapter. These things are very hard to get and get pretty hot when in use. So just for backup sake I need a spare FireWire controller anyway.
I opened the Fireface yesterday and checked the connectors on the board, they look good, because I read some users had a connector coming loose from the pcb. What I also heard is that some people had succes with connecting a FireWire harddrive first and make sure it connects to the FireWire bus then daisy chain the Fireface  to it. I have a FireWire harddisk lying around so I will test this today, maybe it works. Also I heard that if the wrong bios is loaded in the Fireface there could be connection problems so If I can get it connected via PC, I could flash the bios. A firewire card comes in handy anyway for me, it's another 50 bucks but better than only depending on the Apple adapter alone.
If al this doesn't work I have to send the unit in for repair. And by the way I find it really great that RME still repairs these old units and once I have the money to buy me a new one it will definitely be RME because their drivers guarantee to update and work for years.

Thanks for your replay, Rick

Same problem here with an Old ff400. Tryed with my m1 on Monterrey, Ventura and Sonoma. All fails. Tryed on a pc with W10 and fw400 and the same. Just I’m waiting for a friend who has a working unit with his Mac m2 to test the last try. Then will mail for the repair costs

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

alespardo wrote:

Same problem here with an Old ff400. Tryed with my m1 on Monterrey, Ventura and Sonoma. All fails. Tryed on a pc with W10 and fw400 and the same. Just I’m waiting for a friend who has a working unit with his Mac m2 to test the last try. Then will mail for the repair costs

Yeah, I'm ordering a FireWire controller for PC now and will check if it connects.
I don't really expect it to work but never know without trying, the last resort ;-)

Then I'll send it to RME for repair, hopefully it's still worth it

  • Registered: 2024-07-26
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

So good news on the issue,

Today I got a Delock FireWire controller with Texas Instruments chipset for PC (Windows 10) delivered.
First I connected the Fireface with a 9 pins to 6 pins cable and the unit was not recognized, host light on.
But when I connected the unit with a 9 pins to 9 pins cable the unit worked, which is really great news.
I then uploaded the latest firmware ( which seems to be already present ) just to be sure.

Now I know the unit works and has connection on PC which is great but I still can't get it recognized on any Mac.
So I'm back troubleshooting again to find out what's the issue here. Am I missing something ?
When I get any results I will post them here.

If anybody has any clue or tips, you're definitely welcome.

  • ramses
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

BTW .. Delock .. which TI chipset? If it is XIO2200A, this one is known not to be good. But it should work at least "a little".

TI didn't produce only good working FW chipsets. This one had issues with interrupt handling. They even dropped a note on their webpage, that this chipset should not be used in future designs anymore (from memory). But sadly this chipset has been used by so many vendors producing a lot of FW400 PCIe cards. So its in the range that you also stumbled over such a product with not so nice TI chipset.

More recent TI FW cards which are known to work well are e.g. this one with TI XIO2213 Firewire chipset:
https://preisvergleich.heise.de/exsys-e … 75938.html

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Hi Ramses,

I have no idea what kind of chipset the Delock FireWire card has, there is nothing mentioned on their website nor on the data sheet.
For now I only needed it to see if I could get a connection with the Fireface, which it does so the unit is working good.
My studio computer is a Mac so I need to get it working on a Mac which seems not possible for some stupid reason.

11 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-07-29 18:03:52)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Chaos-Dynamics wrote:

Hi Ramses,

I have no idea what kind of chipset the Delock FireWire card has, there is nothing mentioned on their website nor on the data sheet.
For now I only needed it to see if I could get a connection with the Fireface, which it does so the unit is working good.
My studio computer is a Mac so I need to get it working on a Mac which seems not possible for some stupid reason.

You can see it printed on the chipset.
I only wanted to let you know because this is not a FW card that you can really trust, even if you get the FF800 working.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41xAHZfvVvL.jpg

Not sure, but could it be the case that the FF800 is damaged?
Maybe you should give it back as long as there is a possibility, at least let the seller know that you have issues.

Maybe it would be better to look for a used UFX (if it has to be something used) and use USB.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

12 Reply by Chaos-Dynamics (edited by Chaos-Dynamics 2024-07-29 18:23:13)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Ramses,

I will keep it in mind if I ever need to run it on PC, thanks for the heads up ;-)
The seller doesn't respond on any of my messages anymore so sending it back is no option.
I don't want to sell this unit either knowing it doesn't seems to work on a Mac.
In my opinion there must be a driver issue because it works on PC right away.

13 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-07-29 18:15:29)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Chaos-Dynamics wrote:

I will keep it in mind if I ever need to run it on PC, thanks for the heads up ;-)

Just realized I overlooked one information, sorry.
FF800 works on PC with this card, but not on any of your Macs. Ok, then it doesn't seem to be damaged.

Do you have thunderbolt and an extension case? Then you could experiment whether it works with the DeLock card in an extension case at one of your macs. If this could also be a feasible solution. But I am not sure, if this card would be supported by macOS. Maybe, if the TI chipset is being recognized/supported by the OS.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

ramses wrote:
Chaos-Dynamics wrote:

I will keep it in mind if I ever need to run it on PC, thanks for the heads up ;-)

Just realized I overlooked one information, sorry.
FF800 works on PC with this card, but not on any of your Macs. Ok, then it doesn't seem to be damaged.

Do you have thunderbolt and an extension case? Then you could experiment whether it works with the DeLock card in an extension case at one of your macs. If this could also be a feasible solution. But I am not sure, if this card would be supported by macOS. Maybe, if the TI chipset is being recognized/supported by the OS.

I don't have an extension unit so I can't test that, I have other FireWire interfaces from an other manufacturer which all work on all Macs. I will keep trying to get it working otherwise I maybe have to send it in to RME for repair, but it is a little bit fishy i.m.o. because it works on the PC why shouldn't it work on a Mac. I have emailed RME support, they asked me to test it on a Pc but I haven't heard back from them yet.

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Tested it again today and everything works fine on PC, however still not working on any Mac so far.

Mac OS X Intel Flash Update Tool for Fireface 400 and Fireface 800.     2012-05-22    fut_mac_fire_x86.zip
Update to firmware revision 1.71 and 2.77. Compatible up to 10.14 macOS Mojave.
Supported products     Fireface 400, Fireface 800

Mac OS X Flash Update Tool for Fireface 800                                       2008-07-16    fut_mac_fire_800.gz
PPC and Intel Macs (Universal Binary). Update to firmware revision 2.70.
Supported products     Fireface 800

Is it possible that the 2.77 firmware isn't right? It says it is compatible up to 10.14 macOS Mojave and I have 10.15 Catalina.

I'm afraid that I'm going to give up on getting it to work on a Mac, I deleted all my FireWire drivers from other vendors so no issues can be caused by those but nothing seems to matter. The driver has been given acces for the Mac security by adding it with the terminal in recovery mode with the command:  /usr/sbin/spctl kext-consent add 67AK2U2X7M

Has anyone got a Fireface800 running under OS 10.15 Catalina ?
If you can let me know the firmware version loaded in the device, I can then make sure I have the right firmware.

What a nightmare is this pfffff :-(

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Has anyone got a Fireface800 running under OS 10.15 Catalina ?

Longer time ago, but yes it was running on catalina with Firmware 2.77.

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17 Reply by oli77sch (edited by oli77sch 2024-07-31 07:36:28)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Yes, firmware v2.77 is fine, also up to current macOS version 14.
What driver version do you have installed on all these different Mac models? Are you sure you did all the needed clicks for security to enable the driver on macOS? Maybe it helps to install the driver again.
EDIT: sorry, I overlooked this before:
'The driver has been given acces for the Mac security by adding it with the terminal in recovery mode with the command…'.
Never heard about that. Normally it simply works with all the needed 'yes, I want…' clicks during or after the installation process.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

oli77sch wrote:

Yes, firmware v2.77 is fine, also up to current macOS version 14.
What driver version do you have installed on all these different Mac models? Are you sure you did all the needed clicks for security to enable the driver on macOS? Maybe it helps to install the driver again.
EDIT: sorry, I overlooked this before:
'The driver has been given acces for the Mac security by adding it with the terminal in recovery mode with the command…'.
Never heard about that. Normally it simply works with all the needed 'yes, I want…' clicks during or after the installation process.

There were some problems with allowing the drivers with the privacy and security settings in the past. This is a known problem that when you reinstall the drivers the button for allowing the drivers would not show up in the security settings. Also when upgrading the OS the security could blok the drivers again. There where some work arounds to fix this problem but they didn't always work. The added permission via the terminal in the OS recovery boot was a final fix from RME to tackle this problem.

An to answer your question, as noted in the tread, I installed the recommended drivers on three different machines. Two iMacs and a Mac mini. All have a different OS with their recommended drivers, OS 10.6 - OS 10.13 and OS 10.15

I start to hate the Mac OS more and more. They work great if they work but the hardware support through drivers sucks to say at least. I have an old Digidesign FireWire interface that is only supported up to OS 10.6, then I have a Focusrite interface which is only supported up to OS 10.15 then there are a lot of Plugins that need a higher OS than 10.15 in order to work, so basically Mac OS is a big bottleneck for all devices because all the mentioned hardware and plugins work well on Windows 10. I personally think I will build me a Windows PC and have everything working on Windows 10.

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

maggie33 wrote:

Has anyone got a Fireface800 running under OS 10.15 Catalina ?

Longer time ago, but yes it was running on catalina with Firmware 2.77.

Thanks Maggie, I appreciate that you letting me know :-)

20 Reply by Apfel (edited by Apfel 2024-07-31 11:45:24)

  • Apfel
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

When reading all this I wonder why I did not have any of such problems with my good old Fireface 800. Neither had I any problems with driver installations on a MacBook Pro (Intel) nor on a iMac M1. And I never ever had to reinstall drivers after any MacOS upgrades.

My setup is working and always worked flawlessly up to the most current situation, which is Sonoma 14.5 on the iMac M1.

BTW, are you using the original Apple adapters?

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Apfel wrote:

When reading all this I wonder why I did not have any of such problems with my good old Fireface 800. Neither had I any problems with driver installations on a MacBook Pro (Intel) nor on a iMac M1. And I never ever had to reinstall drivers after any MacOS upgrades.

My setup is working and always worked flawlessly up to the most current situation, which is Sonoma 14.5 on the iMac M1.

BTW, are you using the original Apple adapters?

Hi Apfel, thanks for your reply

Yes, I'm using the original Apple adapters and they work with all my other interfaces except the Fireface.
I tried deleting all Firewire drivers from other manufacturers in case there would be an unknown conflict between them.
So far nothing mattered. I wanted to use Fireface so I could upgrade my Mac mini and have more resources available.

The only option I have left is to use the Fireface in standalone mode so I can still use the AD converters and have it via adat connected to my Focusrite. The main reason I bought this interface was so that I could use it for recording drums (12 tracks) outside my studio, with the Focusrite as master this will still be possible.

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

For everyone following this, I will try a clean OS install.

I was thinking, the only thing all three Macs have in common is that they had previously Focusrite Saffire drivers installed.
So I will do a clean Mac OS install on a machine and see if it solves this weird issue.

I have a hunch it will work...  (fingers crossed :-)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Chaos-Dynamics wrote:

For everyone following this, I will try a clean OS install.

I was thinking, the only thing all three Macs have in common is that they had previously Focusrite Saffire drivers installed.
So I will do a clean Mac OS install on a machine and see if it solves this weird issue.

I have a hunch it will work...  (fingers crossed :-)

I wish you luck!
With my FF400 i never had such an issue. Since 2009 I've had it running on PowerPC-Macs and now it still works absolutely fine on Intel and M1 Macs. I really cannot imagine what is going wrong with your FF800. Hopefully you can solve it.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Done a fresh install of Mac OS 10.15, installed the (driver_fw_mac_3391.zip)
Checked the security settings, RME driver didn't show so couldn't click "accept"
Rebooted the computer and still no connection, nothing showing on the FireWire bus, host led stays red.
Rebooted into security boot, added the driver into the security settings manually, reboot... still nothing.
Checked if the driver was added in the terminal with command: /usr/sbin/spctl kext-consent list and it shows three times
Allowed Team Identifiers:
67AK2U2X7M
67AK2U2X7M
67AK2U2X7M
I don't know if this is generating a issue or not.

  • Registered: 2024-07-26
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

I removed all external kernel extensions and reinstalled the drivers, this time I got the security notice after the driver install.
Allowed the driver in the security settings and rebooted the machine, still it won't work.
I have one more option, my daughter has a Mac Pro M1 laptop so I will try if it works there.
If not then I tried it on four different machines and there must be something wrong in the device.
Really crazy that everything works perfectly on Windows tho, I just don't understand why :-(

  • waedi
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

In the MacOS system report under thunderbolt, the adapters should appear.
If you connect the adapters without Fireface do they appear in the system report ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

waedi wrote:

In the MacOS system report under thunderbolt, the adapters should appear.
If you connect the adapters without Fireface do they appear in the system report ?

Hi Waedi,

Yes the FireWire adapter shows under Thunderbolt in the system report.

( also my other FireWire converters of Focusrite and Digidesign work and get recognised )

  • waedi
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

After the adapters there is only the Fireface, the failure seems to be there or in the cable.
But the unit works fine on the Windows computer... weird.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

waedi wrote:

After the adapters there is only the Fireface, the failure seems to be there or in the cable.
But the unit works fine on the Windows computer... weird.

Yes it's really weird.
I just tried to install it on a Mac Pro M1 laptop and same issues there.
Allowed the kernel extension in the startup security bla bla bla allowed the driver and same issue :-)

For now I don't have any clue how to fix it, I call it a quit for now.
Maybe someone else has a genius idea or I come up with trying something else later.
For now I'm done for the day pfffff, crazy

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Have you tried different orders to start or power up the Mac and Fireface?
In rare occasions my FF400 has to be powered off and on again to be recognised from the Mac

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

oli77sch wrote:

Have you tried different orders to start or power up the Mac and Fireface?
In rare occasions my FF400 has to be powered off and on again to be recognised from the Mac

Yes I tried many sequences, power on before booting, power on at login screen, power on when logged in. Have it on when installing drivers, off when installing drivers. Switch multiple times on and off.

32 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-08-01 05:04:54)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

The firewire cable is how long ? And not rolled together, right ?

Never roll cable !
https://maraindustrial.com/cart/247183-thickbox_default/belden-9463-roll-of-shielded-cable-30-cable-new-no-box.jpg

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

33 Reply by MC

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Chaos-Dynamics wrote:

Tested it again today and everything works fine on PC, however still not working on any Mac so far.

Mac OS X Intel Flash Update Tool for Fireface 400 and Fireface 800.     2012-05-22    fut_mac_fire_x86.zip
Update to firmware revision 1.71 and 2.77. Compatible up to 10.14 macOS Mojave.
Supported products     Fireface 400, Fireface 800

Mac OS X Flash Update Tool for Fireface 800                                       2008-07-16    fut_mac_fire_800.gz
PPC and Intel Macs (Universal Binary). Update to firmware revision 2.70.
Supported products     Fireface 800

Is it possible that the 2.77 firmware isn't right?(

I don't get it. When the FF works under Windows then do the flash update there. And also you then know which firmware version is in the unit and if an update is necessary at all.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

34 Reply by Chaos-Dynamics (edited by Chaos-Dynamics 2024-08-01 12:11:39)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

MC wrote:

I don't get it. When the FF works under Windows then do the flash update there. And also you then know which firmware version is in the unit and if an update is necessary at all.

I don't get it either, I checked the firmware on Windows and it says it's version 2.77,
Flashed the bios again but nothing changed, works on Windows but not on Mac.

35 Reply by Chaos-Dynamics (edited by Chaos-Dynamics 2024-08-01 12:14:55)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

waedi wrote:

The firewire cable is how long ? And not rolled together, right ?

Never roll cable !

Hi Waedi,

The cable is 1 mtr. long and it's a new cable. It works with other interfaces on both Mac and Pc.
Also I have it not rolled and have no other equipment connected or in the neighbourhood.
The Mac is a new fresh install with nothing installed except the RME drivers.

36 Reply by Chaos-Dynamics (edited by Chaos-Dynamics 2024-08-01 12:21:00)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

By the way I read from a user who had a similar problem, he connected it to a old OS had it recognised and flashed the firmware there, he had however an old firmware in the unit but it fixed his problem so I will try to hook it on a OS 10.6 machine which has a 9pin FireWire onboard and see if I can get communication there. I already tried this but I will try again.

37 Reply by Apfel (edited by Apfel 2024-08-01 13:01:49)

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Just to be sure:

What is the MacOS version on the MacBook Pro M1 that you tried?

Did you meticulously follow the driver (Fireface 800, version 3.41) installation process for MacOS 11 and up: https://rme-audio.de/rme-macos.html

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Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Are you using the same FW connection on both systems (800/400)? If you're only using 800 on the Mac, try with an adapter.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2024-07-26
  • Posts: 33

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

RME Support wrote:

Are you using the same FW connection on both systems (800/400)? If you're only using 800 on the Mac, try with an adapter.

I'll try to sum it up: I have four Mac computers available and tested everything on all devices,

iMac (late 2009 3,06 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo - MacOS High Sierra 10.13.6) 9pins FireWire connection, I tried both a 9pin to 9pins cable on both 9pin connectors of the Fireface, also used a 9pin to 6pins cable on the 6pins connector of the interface. I tried this with the version 3.391 driver without succes.

Same iMac has also MacOS 10.6 installed, I tried this with the version 3.06 driver also without succes.

Another iMac has Mac OS 10.15 installed, this iMac has a Thunderbolt 2 connector, used the Apple dongle (which 100% works) installed the version 3.391 driver without succes. (tested with all ports on the Fireface)

My studio computer is a Mac mini with MacOS 10.15, here I use the FireWire to Thunderbolt 2 adapter and the Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter, same issue no connection.

Next I tested it on my daughters Mac Book Pro with Mac OS Sonoma M1 chip, same results, no connection. I did the proper installation procedure with allowing the kernel extension exactly according the installation procedure.

Note that all mentioned Mac's work with old Digidesign and Focusrite FireWire interfaces, same cables same adapters.

On my son's PC the Fireface works flawlessly, tested all i/o can do firmware updates, connected with same cable 9pin to 9pins into a Delock Firewire controller.

On any Mac when connecting the Digidesign or the Focusrite they show up on the Firewire bus, the Fireface doesn't show on any machine.

Hope this info helps, I really appreciate the time and effort everybody puts in here to help me out, which is awesome !

40 Reply by Chaos-Dynamics (edited by Chaos-Dynamics 2024-08-01 20:50:19)

  • Registered: 2024-07-26
  • Posts: 33

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Okay tested it on Windows PC again and found out that the FireWire 400 (6-pins) port on the Fireface doesn’t work. Both 800 (9-pins) ports do work. So there is something wrong with the Firewire i/o on the Fireface. For some reason this doesn’t affect the functionality on a Windows PC but it seems to screw up the FireWire bus on a Mac even when only the 800 (9-pins) connection is connected.

My conclusion is that the unit needs to have the FireWire controller replaced to work properly on a Mac.

I’ve put the Fireface in standalone mode and connected it to a Focusrite Pro40 with adat. So at least I can use the four mic pre’s for recording drums next week and have four extra line inputs available for external mic pre’s. A total of 16 mic inputs which is great.

A little bit happy after all :-)

  • Registered: 2024-07-26
  • Posts: 33

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

I want to thank everyone on this thread who helped me out with tackling this weird issue,

You guys an girls and everyone in between are awesome :-)

I learned a lot (the hard way is the best way)

Thanks, Rick

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 443

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

My conclusion is that the unit needs to have the FireWire controller replaced to work properly on a Mac.

Ports either work, or do not work (physically).

You seem to use at least two different cables:
- 1394a (FW400) to 1394b (FW800)
- 1394b (FW800) to 1394b (FW800)
- maybe a 1394a (FW400) to 1394a (FW400) too?

Okay tested it on Windows PC again and found out that the FireWire 400 (6-pins) port on the Fireface doesn’t work. Both 800 (9-pins) ports do work. So there is something wrong with the Firewire i/o on the Fireface.

Would make more sense that there is sth wrong with your 1394a to "whatever" cable...?
"whatever" because, afaik, the Delock card has two 1394b and one 1394a Ports.

And at all - sure, you did 100% not use some daisy chaining connection-stuff (with your other 2 interfaces) on your FF800 during your experiments?

See Page 25 in FF800 Manual:

• The cabling of FireWire 800 units is critical. In real world operation, it is not unusual that all
Firefaces have to be connected directly to the 1394b ports of the computer, using cables of
similar length. A long cable from the computer to the first Fireface, and a short one from the
first to the second Fireface can cause problems.
You use different cables, multiple macs, each with different connection

Maybe, keep in mind for future:
Red Light = No physical connection between host and the unit (for whatever reason).
Page 9 in Manual:

The red HOST LED lights up when the Fireface 800 has been switched on, signalling the pres-
ence of operating voltage. At the same time it operates as error LED, in case the FireWire con-
nection hasn't been initialised yet, or has been interrupted (error, cable not connected etc.).

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

43 Reply by Apfel (edited by Apfel 2024-08-02 08:40:57)

  • Apfel
  • AD/DA expert
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  • From: Deutschland
  • Registered: 2022-09-13
  • Posts: 52

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

And keep in mind: There is absolutely no need for and advantage of Firewire 800 when using a single Fireface 800. That is why the Fireface 800 originally came with a Firewire 400 cable only. That is still the one I'm using to this day, btw.

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 443

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Exactly. What i meant - i am not really sure if chaos-dynamics uses the FF800's other FW Ports as a Hub for his other Devices, too. In this case the 400 Port will probably not serve enough Bandwidth plus the cable length things, etc. Because i saw some older Mac Models in his "collection" just offer one single FW Port.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard
  • Registered: 2024-07-26
  • Posts: 33

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

FIY,

Cables are tested and brand new.
No daisy chaining during testing.

  • Apfel
  • AD/DA expert
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  • From: Deutschland
  • Registered: 2022-09-13
  • Posts: 52

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

maggie33 wrote:

Exactly. What i meant - i am not really sure if chaos-dynamics uses the FF800's other FW Ports as a Hub for his other Devices, too. In this case the 400 Port will probably not serve enough Bandwidth plus the cable length things, etc. Because i saw some older Mac Models in his "collection" just offer one single FW Port.

Here is what the manual says:

"When using only one Fireface 800, a FireWire 800 interface does not improve performance, and does not help to achieve lower latency. But connecting a hard drive to the Fireface (Hub functionality), FireWire 800 will immediately increase performance and reliability."

I'm not sure if FireWire 800 in that case would have any effect on the performance of the Fireface or the added components (here: the hard drive) only.

In any case I would make the tests with only the Fireface connected and no other components. And with the original FireWire 400 cable that came with the unit, if possible (plus the original Apple adapters where neccessary).

And the start up sequence should be Mac first, wait until everything is fully booted, only then power on the Fireface. I never had problems with this order but in rare occasions when the Fireface was powered on first. That was at least my experience.

iMac M1, Fireface 800, Logic Pro X
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 443

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

In any case I would make the tests with only the Fireface connected and no other components

Exactly that is what i wanted to point out in my post above. Maybe i was not clear enough.

And at all - sure, you did 100% not use some daisy chaining connection-stuff (with your other 2 interfaces) on your FF800 during your experiments?

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard
  • Registered: 2024-07-26
  • Posts: 33

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Chaos-Dynamics wrote:

FIY,

Cables are tested and brand new.
No daisy chaining during testing.

I was just on the phone with a technical engineer from RME and he couldn’t figure out what’s going on either. Since the Fireface gives a fault warning on the bus when connected on a Mac directly there must be something wrong with the unit. Also because other devices work when using the same system.

It’s definitely a weird issue,

I think about buying another Fireface because basic repair costs at least 250,- I can buy a used one for around 350,- and have this unit in standalone mode connected with adat, this is how I use the unit now and this works. Eventually I need 24 i/o for my setup so having more units isn’t a bad thing. I could even buy a Digiface USB and skip the whole FireWire issue.

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 443

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

Or plug it into the PC of your son, and control it via TM Remote App^^

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard
  • Registered: 2024-07-26
  • Posts: 33

Re: Fireface 800 - No connection possible

maggie33 wrote:

Or plug it into the PC of your son, and control it via TM Remote App^^

Good luck with that :-)

My son is a programmer, his computer is only available when he sleeps or is on the toilet hahahaha