1 Topic by djscheppert (edited by djscheppert 2024-09-26 01:53:32)

  • Registered: 2024-09-25
  • Posts: 2

Topic: Fireface UCX II MIDI SYNC setup with hardware TR8S

Hi Everyone,

After spending a lot of time researching and trying out different solutions for almost a year, I figured I’d reach out here to see if anyone else has faced the same issue and might have some advice or recommendations to make things easier.

Last year I bought the Fireface UCX II, hoping it would solve all my problems big_smile, but I'm still running into the same issues I had with my previous, much cheaper audio interface.

My Setup:
Windows PC / MacBook Pro (Intel, 2018)
Ableton
Fireface UCX II
TR8S Drum Machine

What I'm Trying to Achieve:
Studio Setup: I want to sync my TR8S with Ableton on my Windows PC for production purposes. I like using the TR-Editor to easily control the TR8S while working.
Live Performance: I want to sync my TR8S with Ableton on my MacBook Pro for live performances.

The Problem:
In both setups, I face the same issue. After setting up the clock to send from Ableton via MIDI or USB to the TR8S and adjusting the delay to sync everything perfectly, I notice that after a few minutes, the sync drifts, and the drum machine is no longer in sync.

During my live performances, I’ve had to open Ableton's settings mid-set to adjust the MIDI Clock Sync Delay to get everything back in sync (which is super stressful), Nudge my TR8s or I’ve had to stop and restart the project to reset the sync.

What I’ve Tried:

  • Syncing via USB instead of a MIDI cable.

  • Syncing via a MIDI cable instead of USB.

  • Sending audio from the TR8S via USB + use USB to sync midi clock.

  • Sending audio via TRS-Cable into the interface and syncing midi clock via USB.

  • Sending audio via TRS-Cable output and syncing clock through a MIDI cable.

  • Changing the MIDI sync type to song or pattern mode.

  • Ensuring a low buffer size in Ableton (128 samples).

  • Confirming both TR8S and Ableton are set to the same sample rate.

What I’m Hoping to Get from This Thread:
I know MIDI sync issues are common, and I was hoping the RME Fireface UCX II’s SteadyClock FS feature would help solve this problem. I’m looking for advice on how to properly set up both my studio and live performance setups with the Fireface to keep my TR8S in sync.

Has anyone with a similar setup found a solution for MIDI drifting? Any tips or tricks I might not know about? Is there anything in the Fireface settings I need to do? Or is there any additional gear I’d need to ensure everything stays in sync?

Hope I can get some more insight into my issue and thanks a lot to everyone taking the time to read this!

Best
Michael

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-09-26 04:10:50)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
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  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
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Re: Fireface UCX II MIDI SYNC setup with hardware TR8S

Wrong attempt, you should not try to use Midiclock for the TR8S
Better use its internal tempo
Use start stop sync from the DAW then the DAW project and the TR8S both using their own tempo (same bpm) started at the same moment.

Steady clock FS has nothing to do with Midi-clock.
The interface is just forwarding all Midi signals untouched.
You receive what Ableton spits out.

For Liveset, the two tempoclocks will differ over time, you have to start stop from time to time

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 391

Re: Fireface UCX II MIDI SYNC setup with hardware TR8S

If i understood djscheppert right, he wants to use Ableton as MIDI Clock Master and the TR8S as Slave.
Two independent Audio Sources, running their own patterns, etc.

Steady clock FS has nothing to do with Midi-clock.

Thats 100% correct.



you should not try to use Midiclock for the TR8S

why?



Better use its internal tempo

2.nd - why?



Use start stop sync from the DAW then the DAW project and the TR8S both using their own tempo (same bpm) started at the same moment.

3.rd - why?

-> I think that is exactly the reason why the 2 audio sources are drifting after a time. Independent clocks, just triggered by the Start/Stop/Continue MIDI Command. (Google for the "System Realtime" MIDI Spec for details).

----

djscheppert, make sure that in your TR8S you switch in Functions and Settings (UTILITY) from AUTO to:
- MIDI: The tempo synchronizes to MIDI clock being input from the MIDI IN connector.
or
- USB: The tempo synchronizes to MIDI clock being input from the USB port.
(Depends how you connected it to Ableton.
- Set "Sync Out" to OFF

In Ableton, check only the Sync Checkbox and set the Clock Type to Song.
Disable any Incoming MIDI from your TR8S in Ableton - just for isolating the MIDI Stuff for checking if the Sync works properly.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard
  • mkok
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  • Registered: 2020-11-04
  • Posts: 624

Re: Fireface UCX II MIDI SYNC setup with hardware TR8S

It sounds like the drum machine is free running and not correcting with the incoming midi clock. What does the tr8s manual say about syncing? Maybe it is just stop start? If you it is I would be tempted to put the midi into the DAW and just trigger the tr8s that way. Will the tr8s export a standard midi file?

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 391

Re: Fireface UCX II MIDI SYNC setup with hardware TR8S

What does the tr8s manual say about syncing? Maybe it is just stop start?

In general, this would be very very unusual for a drum machine...

---

Look at page 21 in TR8S manual:
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/ … ng03_W.pdf

The TR-8S can receive MIDI Clock (F8) data to synchronize its tempo. It can also receive MIDI Start (FA) and MIDI Stop (FC) to start/stop itself.

And how to set it up is in the Reference Manual, Page 46 (SYNC/TEMPO).
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/ … ng05_W.pdf

- TempoSync: Either MIDI or USB
- Sync Out: OFF
- RxStartStop: ON

Thats what i meant above in my post.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard
  • Registered: 2024-09-25
  • Posts: 2

Re: Fireface UCX II MIDI SYNC setup with hardware TR8S

Thanks everyone for taking the time to look into this and give me some guidance.

Scenario 1: Sync TR8S with Windows Ableton
First try
TR8S settings: Sync Out "OFF", RxStartStop "ON" TempoSync "INT"
Audio via TRS into FireFace UCX II, USB into Windows Ableton for Midi

Ableton settings: turned on 'Start Stop Sync' but didnt configure TR8S to receive midi

Didnt start my TR8S when I press play in ableton

Now via Midi cable instead of USB

Didnt start my TR8S when I press play in ableton

Second Try (suggestion from maggie33)
TR8S settings: Sync Out "OFF", RxStartStop "ON" TempoSync "MIDI"
Audio via TRS into FireFace UCX II, Midi cable from FireFace Out into TR8S IN
Ableton Settings: Turned on Start Stop Sync, in the midi ports section I turned on Sync only(track and remote is disabled) for UCX II Midi Port 1, Midi Clock Type is on Song and I adjusted the Midi Clock Sync Delay so the kick is on grid in ableton

The TR8S is now perfectly sync, even when I multiple times start stop the project, the kick still stay on the grid.

Thanks a lot Maggie33 for the recommendation! I'm going to use the same settings for my live performance setup with my macbook and try this out over the next few weeks at home and during my live performance but I guess this will solve it for now!

7 Reply by maggie33 (edited by maggie33 2024-09-28 10:11:13)

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 391

Re: Fireface UCX II MIDI SYNC setup with hardware TR8S

Nice.

100% sure it will work with your MacBook if you set ableton settings the same way as you did on win. 

Happy Beatsmashing (Perfectly in sync) ;-)


Edit: The reason for fail in scenario1 was the
„TempoSync "INT" Setting in your TRS.
In this case it ignores incoming MIDI Clock/Start/Stop signals. Because it is set to -  „ i use my Internal sync stuff…“

PS
I dont think it matters, if you use a midi cable or the „internal“ usb-midi port at all. To switch to usb-midi you can set the trs from MIDI to USB and switch the port in ableton from fireface to the TRS-USB. Should work flawlessly, too.
Maybe useful to know how to establish a Backup Connection - just in case on a live Performance….

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard