101 (edited by anoise 2024-10-24 12:50:59)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

memopro wrote:

If we pay attention to the things that are the same for both of us, it is that we use the speaker equalizer in Totalmix to correct the sound.

I think If more people with BF start using the speaker equalizer in Totalmix to correct the sound, then I imagine other people will come to the thread with the same problem.

So the problem is either in our computers or in Totalmix, at the moment it seems more to me that the problem is from Totalmix.
Correct me if I'm reasoning wrong.

Exactly my thoughts. By using the EQ all the time, we either found a rare bug or we are unlucky with the PC hardware combination, which I highly doubt.
If the problem can't be fixed, a solution would be to disable the EQ and to invest in a standalone room correction device, like the ARC Studio from IK. But that is another layer of AD/DA conversion.

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

memopro wrote:
anoise wrote:

Thanks to MC, he was so kind to replace my unit. After a week, today, I got my replacement. I plug it in, start playback and EQ distortion in right channel (exaggerated bass, resetting the EQ resolved it). I couldn't believe it. Brand new unit, issue on the first try. Firmware was 318 so I updated now to the latest 320. I suppose this is the ESS version of the Pro FS, because my old unit had Firmware 208. Anyway, I expect white noise blast any day now. I don't know what is going on...

Congratulations on the new device, it's an outstanding gesture from RME.
But I'm very sorry that the noise problem happened again.
So far we are the only two in the world with the exact same problem.

Let's think a little. If the problem was with our computers/motherboards (which are different brands) then turning the speaker EQ on/off shouldn't fix the problem because I don't think the Totalmix has a direct connection to the motherboard.
It has already become clear that it is not from the device itself, because after replacing it with a new device, the problem continues.

If we pay attention to the things that are the same for both of us, it is that we use the speaker equalizer in Totalmix to correct the sound.
As far as I understand from the thread so far, people are not in the habit of using the equalizer in Totalmix to adjust their speakers, which I think is much more convenient than Sonarworks or Equalizer APO and similar software, because you are not constantly turning some software on and off. I use the equalizer for speakers and headphones all the time, adjust the sound of the devices from there and I don't touch anything while working or listening to music, I just switch between speakers and headphones and that's it.
I think If more people with BF start using the speaker equalizer in Totalmix to correct the sound, then I imagine other people will come to the thread with the same problem.

So the problem is either in our computers or in Totalmix, at the moment it seems more to me that the problem is from Totalmix.
Correct me if I'm reasoning wrong.

I used to calibrate my monitors by Totalmix EQ for one and a half years, until upgrading my monitors to Genelec 8320a with GLM. The noise issue never happened during that time.

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

OHtaru wrote:

I used to calibrate my monitors by Totalmix EQ for one and a half years, until upgrading my monitors to Genelec 8320a with GLM. The noise issue never happened during that time.

Thanks for the reply.
What operating system were you using?

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

memopro wrote:
OHtaru wrote:

I used to calibrate my monitors by Totalmix EQ for one and a half years, until upgrading my monitors to Genelec 8320a with GLM. The noise issue never happened during that time.

Thanks for the reply.
What operating system were you using?

Windows 11, i5-10400, MSI H410M-A PRO.

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

OHtaru wrote:
memopro wrote:
OHtaru wrote:

I used to calibrate my monitors by Totalmix EQ for one and a half years, until upgrading my monitors to Genelec 8320a with GLM. The noise issue never happened during that time.

Thanks for the reply.
What operating system were you using?

Windows 11, i5-10400, MSI H410M-A PRO.

This is very close to my configuration, except for the motherboard chipset.
Windows 11, i5-11400, MSI B560M-A PRO

Again we go back to the original assumption, if it is from the motherboard then what could be causing this problem.

By the way, I haven't had the problem for a month now.
Happens to me at about 6 months, but the noise is so loud it just scares you.

106 (edited by anoise 2024-12-30 08:30:31)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

Today I got the right channel exaggerated EQ on playback after startup. Disabling the EQ fixed it. I had no issues since I got the new unit, apart from the first day and now. I did a lot of software updates in the meantime. New BIOS, moved to Win 11 24H2 (had to reinstall the RME drivers for the ASIO to work), etc. I was hoping the issue was resolved somehow, but it is not. sad

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

anoise wrote:

Today I got the right channel exaggerated EQ on playback after startup. Disabling the EQ fixed it. I had no issues since I got the new unit, apart from the first day and now. I did a lot of software updates in the meantime. New BIOS, moved to Win 11 24H2 (had to reinstall the RME drivers for the ASIO to work), etc. I was hoping the issue was resolved somehow, but it is not. sad

The problem hasn't happened to me since September.

108 (edited by memopro 2025-01-02 05:23:17)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

anoise wrote:

Today I got the right channel exaggerated EQ on playback after startup. Disabling the EQ fixed it. I had no issues since I got the new unit, apart from the first day and now. I did a lot of software updates in the meantime. New BIOS, moved to Win 11 24H2 (had to reinstall the RME drivers for the ASIO to work), etc. I was hoping the issue was resolved somehow, but it is not. sad

When you wrote that the noise had started for you, I already knew that it would start for me too in the next few days, because until now it had always happened to both of us at the same time. (STRANGE)

Voila! It happened!

When starting the computer, a loud pink noise appeared from the right speaker.
The left speaker plays normally!
In TotalMix a red indicator is visible on the right output and says OVR (overload) I guess.
I tried turning some controls on and off and none of them changed the situation.
Changing the volume level does not affect the right output, only the left!
When changing the speaker equalizer settings, the noise first turned into something like a squeal, and after changing more settings it disappeared.
Overall, the solution is still to turn the speaker equalizer off and on!

Driver version: 1.253
Firmware: 208
They were installed a few months ago!

Of course, I also made a video of everything described above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OftBwba1T10

109 (edited by anoise 2025-01-02 10:09:25)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

memopro wrote:

When you wrote that the noise had started for you, I already knew that it would start for me too in the next few days, because until now it had always happened to both of us at the same time. (STRANGE)

Voila! It happened!

The synchronicity is very strange indeed.

My "ritual" every day to avoid the chance of getting blasted by noise is:
1. Start PC with the speakers off
2. Play a track in foobar or a youtube video and check the meters in Totalmix.
3. If the meter does not show OVR, I turn the speakers on.

If I have to restart the PC for some reason, sometimes I turn the speakers off, or I just cover my ears, to be on the safe side, I'm not joking, because you never know when it happens, I don't trust it. At least the white noise was rare here. With the new unit I had no noise yet, only distorted EQ.

If this wasn't an RME product I would get rid of it. It feels like an explosion could happen anytime on system startup.
If anyone new to this topic is reading this and thinks this is an exaggeration, just imagine, suddenly on full volume, white noise blasting through the right speaker. Very unpleasant to say the least.

I was thinking, maybe have an option to always start Totalmix with the EQ off and enable it manually via key command on the device or global keyboard shortcut or automation (somehow) to avoid the inconvenience of manually doing it on every startup...

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

My "ritual" every day to avoid the chance of getting blasted by noise is:
1. Start PC with the speakers off
2. Play a track in foobar or a youtube video and check the meters in Totalmix.
3. If the meter does not show OVR, I turn the speakers on.

If I have to restart the PC for some reason, sometimes I turn the speakers off, or I just cover my ears, to be on the safe side, I'm not joking, because you never know when it happens, I don't trust it.

If this wasn't an RME product I would get rid of it. It feels like an explosion could happen anytime on system startup.

I do absolutely the same thing!

I hope this problem will still be fixed!!!

111 (edited by vinark 2025-01-02 12:59:16)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

As a temporary fix, would it be an idea to set up this eq in the players and the daw, whichever you use?
In cubase I can set up speaker eq in the control room, so it will not render in the final file. And my player of choice has an option to use internal and vst FX.

Btw I have a baby fs too, I just never used the eq and this does not make me want to try it. I hope it gets fixed for you two and hopefully soon!
Happy new year, with a fix!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

It has never happened to me on BF Pro FS and I use FX.... I am on Win10.

That synchronization of occurence of problems between Memopro and Anoise might be caused by Win updates or like. Still strange that it seems only few people are affected... There must be unique combination of factors that cause it.

FF UCX II, Digiface USB, Babyface Pro FS

113 (edited by ramses 2025-01-02 17:04:59)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

As this is just speculation, the following proposal for the next time, to bring more clarity into this and to avoid chasing shadows.

1. identify the latest date where everyting worked and the 1st day, where it messed up
2. check the Windows update history, whether there was a significant change
3. restore your system backup to the day where everything still worked and check whether there is any difference
4. perform windows update and immidiately re-check whether there are issues by update.
    Sometimes Microsoft reworks updates, so there is a chance that it works now if this was the issue

Ideally, you do this immediately before your backup files expire or other potential changes enter the system.

Tip: there is a possibility to delay Windows updates, to increase the likeliness to get mature Windows updates only, let other people play the beta tester for Microsoft ....
https://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/thre … t-11741191

Group Policy is AFAIR only available on Windows Pro systems.

See Windows Group Policy, sorry here German, as I do not know the names for English version:
Computer Konfiguration -> Administrative Vorlagen -> Windows-Komponenten -> Windows Update -> Windows Update für Unternehmen -> Beim Empfang von Qualitätsupdates Auswählen -> "Aktivieren"

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

114 (edited by memopro 2025-01-02 16:57:21)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

That synchronization of occurence of problems between Memopro and Anoise might be caused by Win updates or like. Still strange that it seems only few people are affected... There must be unique combination of factors that cause it.

The combination is clearly unique. I guess the factors are motherboard+operating system+totalmix (speakers equalizer)
Apparently something is being updated on the operating system (I'm not checking what) and this problem appears, but the problem lasts for a few days at most and then disappears for months (from 3 to 6 months according to my experience so far).

Btw I have a baby fs too, I just never used the eq and this does not make me want to try it.

If you want, you can turn it on just from an experimental point of view, for example at 20kHz activate one band at +-0.5dB, so that it doesn't affect the sound, but the equalizer works, but if the problem happens to you, know that it's really scary, especially after waking up, you won't need coffee afterwards smile

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

I believe you that it is highly unpleasant. I just wrote my experience. I am on Win10, which may be one of the factors. And I have Win set so, that I have to confirm Win or drivers update, which may be another factor. And I mostly wait for week or two, before I apply them, that may be the main point, things may be fixed meanwhile. And updates are not distributed the same time accross the countries, it may be another of factors.

Maybe it would be benefitial what Ramses suggests. Check what has been updated and so on. Or at least set the Update, that installation has to be confirmed by user. And wait few weeks with installing updates.

FF UCX II, Digiface USB, Babyface Pro FS

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

Kubrak wrote:

I believe you that it is highly unpleasant. I just wrote my experience. I am on Win10, which may be one of the factors. And I have Win set so, that I have to confirm Win or drivers update, which may be another factor. And I mostly wait for week or two, before I apply them, that may be the main point, things may be fixed meanwhile. And updates are not distributed the same time accross the countries, it may be another of factors.

Maybe it would be benefitial what Ramses suggests. Check what has been updated and so on. Or at least set the Update, that installation has to be confirmed by user. And wait few weeks with installing updates.

Thanks for the idea.

I don't see any point in investigating which update is causing it (if that's the cause at all), because the problem disappears after a few days and doesn't reappear for 3 to 6 months. If it's from the update, wouldn't the problem remain for weeks, say until the next update (I  don't track how long it takes for updates to be installed).

117 (edited by Kubrak 2025-01-03 08:33:26)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

There may come fix for update few days later and that fix of update is installed by Win Updater. If those problems occure in 3 to 6 months's periods it may be influenced by Win/driver updates.

Anyway, you may try to set Win Updates so, that installation of Updates must be confirmed by user. And wait with installation of updates week or two. It is not much hassle, one has controll over the process and it could possibly solve your problem (no guarantie).

Anyway that is setting that everyone who prefers to avoid problems caused by faulty updates should do. Delaying Win updates is must for anyone, who works on computer every day and needs computer every day. Updates have bugs, sometimes rather serious, mostly influencing just certain users, not all users. Better to wait with installation of update, fix will come soon.... Better to be on safe side and not to be SW gamatester.

FF UCX II, Digiface USB, Babyface Pro FS

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

I can not imagine this having to do with windows update or even the driver at all. Yes the driver disappearing, possible (happened here few years ago, but ms fixed that), worse (usb) performance possible, but such a specific problem I think no way.
Until RME can reproduce this in home or suddenly just know why, this will not be fixed. It is definitely are rare fault state in the Baby.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

119 (edited by memopro 2025-01-03 14:33:43)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

Thanks for the ideas!
There are easier solutions than keeping an eye on Windows updates.

There are several solutions and they are easy to implement, but we didn't buy an audio interface for $50, it's still a high-end device and there shouldn't be such problems.

Solutions:
1. Start the computer with the speakers turned off, and checking if there is no indication of OVR in TotalMix and then turning on the speakers.
2. Reduce the volume of the right speaker before starting the computer, and checking for an OVR indication in TotalMix and then increasing the speaker volume.
3. Turn off and on the speaker equalizer before playing music (I haven't tried this, but it should work, because turning it off/on fixes the problem). This seems to be the easiest solution.

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

vinark wrote:

I can not imagine this having to do with windows update or even the driver at all. Yes the driver disappearing, possible (happened here few years ago, but ms fixed that), worse (usb) performance possible, but such a specific problem I think no way.
Until RME can reproduce this in home or suddenly just know why, this will not be fixed. It is definitely are rare fault state in the Baby.

Well, you may be right.... But that synchonization of problems´ occurence is rather strange and IMHO directs focus to Updates. What else would synchronize those problems?

Simply postponing updates by few weeks (till they are fixed) would show, if it is caused by updates or not.

FF UCX II, Digiface USB, Babyface Pro FS

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

That is absolutely true! But make it a few months to be sure. I don't do updates on my win10 machine at all, but is not online except for authorisations that can not be done offline.
I do have the latest win10 build, 22h2 I think it's called, but latest for sure.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

Sure, few months delay would be even better. Few weeks might do, but it is not for sure. OP says that problems disapear within days (hypotethically due to fix of update), so few weeks might be enought... One would have to try.

FF UCX II, Digiface USB, Babyface Pro FS

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

Or if the problem reoccurs without updates, it says it is not that.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

124 (edited by ramses 2025-01-04 13:43:39)

Re: Babyface Pro FS - Pink noise from right output channel after startup

Possibly a bit off-topic, but as we talk about backup / restore .. a few thoughts.

If you postpone updates too much, then you miss possibly important security updates.

Most important here is to implement a good working and tested backup/recovery !!

Then you can live well with postponing only up to 30 days, where you had some issues with.
In the rare case that there is still a bad patch/update, well then recover to the day before.

This can/should be supported by choosing a good disk layout.
Best is to keep user data separate and to store them ideally on a different drive.
This makes it possible to restore the OS without loosing the last changes in your projects / user data.

It is recommended to also move the from Microsoft prepared folders to the separate disk, e.g.
c:\users\<loginname>\(Documents, Music, Pictures, Videos, etc) to u:\users\<loginname>.
You can easily do it by opening the properties of the prepared folders, to select move and provide as destination folder
u:\users\<loginname>.

By this the new files there will be moved to that location, but not overwriting what is already there.
Additional advantage is that the registry will be updated automatically, so that you can continue to use Microsoft prepared folder names like "My Documents" in the file explorer or elsewhere.

Sadly you can't move all files from your userprofile to that other disk, also not the location, where the application settings reside (c:\users\<loginname>\appdata\{Local, LocalLow, Roaming]. But this is not too bad, as the configuration of applications does not change that often.

The only thing which I have to backup separately are my Firefox bookmarks !!
I export them to a folder on the separate drive and restore them after restoring the disk image as a 2nd step
     u:\users\<loginname>\Documents\0-Firefox-Bookmarks

But the goal is reached. This way, with a good disk image based backup program, you can restore at any time, if something becomes messed up. Also the TotalMix FX Last Settings File and other related setup files are restored automatically by this.

Which backup software for what purpose?

I am using a combination of reliable disk image program (Macrium Reflect Home) for the Windows installation alone
and FreeFileSync to mirror my user data in "native format".
The latter has the advantage that I do not depend on a backup software, which might have bug.
It is important for me to have granted access to my user data, with an archive format you depend on a working application.
For the OS it doesn't matter much, as you might have backups of the disk image and in the worst case you can install new but still have your user data in safe harbour.

Macrium Reflect Home

The strength of Macrium Reflect Home disk imaging software is reliability, speed and cool features.
They have a nice mechanism to change only those blocks on disk / ssh that needs change.
They call it "rapid delta restore". By this a restore is much much faster and reduces the "wear" on SSDs.

I can make a restore of my 850GB on Boot SSD in less than 15 minutes, including boot times, until I can work again.
My server mainboard has a long BIOS post phase. Normal consumer boards with faster boot times would be even faster.

That is simply awesome! You have a problem ? Something went wrong due to bad patch or whatever ?
10-15 min for a restore and everything is fine again!!!

Another advantage of splitting OS/applications and user data is, that the disk images are not so large, because I have a lot of data. Backup / restore is simply faster.

The latest version fo Macrium Reflect Home (called "X") went to a subscription model, which I personally do not like.
So, if you are interested then best get a v8.1 license, if you find somebody who would sell it to you.
Otherwise, fast and reliable backup / recovery is important, better a subscription of a trustworthy program, than having issues with backup / restore.

Also remarkable, the recovery program can be stored on boot disk into the boot menu, on USB sticks or CD-Rom.
Additionally needed drivers (e.g. for network or USB3 cards) are automatically added to the recovery image.
So it is guaranteed, that you can perform a recovery from a network drive, in case you have a NAS storage.

Also good, the proposed backup schemas. I like "Granfather, Father, Sun" much. It is a combination of full, differential and incremental backups which also speed up the restore process.
Restore from one full, one differential and maybe one or more incremental backups is much faster than backup from one full and a LOT of incremental backups as every incremental backup file has to be analysed if there is interesting data for restore.

FreeFileSync

FreeFileSync is a proven solution for mirroring files at top speed. It is the best that you can get since over a decade.
Open Source, nice gui, possibility to export batch files which you can automate in Windows as backup job.

I am giving the author a donation quite often for this very good program.

A cool feature is, that you can configure backup files with a timestamp to keep a history of modified files.
And this is not all, you can configure, that those backup files have to reside in a parallel path.
This has two advantages:
- if you restore one or multiple folder, then you do not copy the backup files with a timestamp, they are not needed
- if you are missing space on your backup disk, you can recursively delete this folder to re-gain space by
removeing the backup files with timestamp.
I configured up to 20 backups of a file. But if you are low on disk space maybe 3 backups with timestamp could be sufficient.

My daily automatic backup jobs

So I have here every day at 6am (or later, when the computer starts) two backup jobs running
a) Macrium Reflect to perform a disk image of the complete Windows driver (RAID-0, 20 TB)
b) FreeFileSync mirror job to internal RAID and two external USB3 drives (2x 20 TB)

Just to give you some ideas, how you can organize things in a good way to have reliably options for fast and reliable recovery.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10