• From: Germany
  • Registered: 2023-01-22
  • Posts: 5

Topic: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

Hi everyone,

I've got a Fireface UFX III for a few months..
Right now, I mainly use it for jams with frineds and so far it's just great!
Though, I'm still pretty new such a device. I have yet to gain experience on working with DIGICheck.

Right now, I'm trying to configure a MIDI-Controller für TMFX.
To be precise, a MIDI Fighter Twister (MFT)

I'm trying to get my head around this for about one and half our and failed.
Configuring the MFT was fairly easy, within it's software tool. And I verified the functionality, by setting a knob to ch1 cc102 - which should be AN-In 1 VOLume on TMFX, if I understood the manual correctly - creating a MIDI-track on a Synthstrom Deluge with parameter knobs on the same cc values.

Now, my guess is a misunderstanding, regarding the UFX III/ TMFX-settings.
Should I leave some screenshots of the settings, so you might help me, figure it out?


By now, I was mainly browsing pages 87 to 91 in the manual.

Right now, the UFX III and the MFT are connected to a PC via USB.
My preferred, optimal use case would be, the MFT being connected the Deluge at the beginning of a MIDI chain, so I can partially use it for control of the Deluge and of the in-/ outputs of TMFX.

Anyway, I hope you guys can help me out here.
Have a wonderful weekend!


Kind regards,

Lightyear

Sincerely,

a professional greenhorn

2 Reply by Lightyear (edited by Lightyear 2024-11-03 13:26:48)

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2023-01-22
  • Posts: 5

Re: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

Also, here a the MIDI-settings:

  • Options\ Settings\ MIDI\ Remote Controller Select - 1 / In Use (checked)

  • Options\ Settings\ MIDI\ MIDI In - MIDI Fighter Twister

  • Options\ Settings\ MIDI\ Enable Protocol Support (checked)

  • Options\ Settings\ MIDI\ Submix Selection in Input/Playback Row (checked)

  • Options\ Settings\ MIDI\ Enable full LCD support

  • Options\ enable MIDI Controll (checked)

  • Options\ Submix linked to MIDI Controller - 1 (checked)

Sincerely,

a professional greenhorn

3 Reply by maggie33 (edited by maggie33 2024-11-04 03:02:57)

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 470

Re: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

by setting a knob to ch1 cc102 - which should be AN-In 1 VOLume on TMFX

if you want to use the "Standard" MIDI Control via CCs, etc (as described in chapter 28.5.MIDI Control page 91-92)

Options\ Settings\ MIDI\ Enable Protocol Support (checked)

Disable this checkbox (=Disable Mackie Protocol Support)

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

4 Reply by Lightyear (edited by Lightyear 2024-11-04 20:25:34)

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2023-01-22
  • Posts: 5

Re: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

It works?!

*ahem* I mean:
It works. :-D
Thanks you so much!

I mistook, what's been written in the manual.
It states:
Mackie Control Options
Enable Protocol Support. When disa-bled TM FX will only react on the Control Change commands of chapter 28.5.

But, for the sake of knowledge

  • What would be a use case to check this box?

  • What does it actually enable (and how can I measure it)?

  • Does this ultimately mean, the MFT is unable to use these "extended" protocol support or does it maybe need some config adjustments?


Thanks a lot for resolving my initial issue.


Kind regards,

Lightyear

Sincerely,

a professional greenhorn

5 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

This checkbox enables all the simple MIDI notes that trigger Mackie protocol functions (see list in manual). This can be very unpleasant when trying to do something different or just playing a keyboard on the same MIDI channels...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2023-01-22
  • Posts: 5

Re: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

Hi everyone,

sorry for the late response.

Thanks, MC.
Honestly, I figured, there might be some more advanced scenarios.
But still, this is absolutely logical. Can't argue with that. :-)


Now, it also works with Mackie protocol support enabled. But I'm still trying different MIDI parameter values an encountered another issue (probably the MFT).
pebkac

Just for documentation:
- scenario = UFX iii and MFT are connected to a pc via usb
- when opening the MFT-utility (for cc param adjustment) it states, the MFT was not connected
- by unplugging and plugging it back in, the software recognizes the MFT BUT the ufx is not recognizing it anymore
- in short: only one application can access/ receive the controller messages at a time, so while one's in use, the other should remain (completely) closed - the MFT utility also displays a message at the bottom-left of the utility window

Out of curiosity:
Any controller recommendations (besides ARC USB, which is on my to-acquire list)?
May be later version from Behringer or TASCAM, since the tests within the manual have been made with their predecessors.

Kind regards and thanks a lot for your help!


Lightyear

Sincerely,

a professional greenhorn

7 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

'the ufx is not recognizing it anymore' - what does that mean exactly? Exit TM FX and restart it to gain access to  that MIDI source again might work.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

8 Reply by maggie33 (edited by maggie33 2024-11-08 03:33:05)

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 470

Re: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

@Lightyear

I never had to do sth with MFT. But i just looked a little deeper:

- when opening the MFT-utility (for cc param adjustment) it states, the MFT was not connected

read the manual of your MFT:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-QvId … ZfOTA/view

Page 9:

...To get started launch the application and connect your Midi Fighter Twister to a spare USB
port.
Note: If the Midi Fighter Utility does not detect the Midi Fighter Twister please make sure all
other MIDI software has been shut down, then restart the utility and reconnect the device...

----

- by unplugging and plugging it back in, the software recognizes the MFT BUT the ufx is not recognizing it anymore

So, i downloaded the MFT-utility - what i can say:

Short:
Because MFT is in edit/flash mode while using this utility.

Long:
At the moment you start up the utility it, it sends all ~500ms the (according official midi spec), Universal Device Inquiry message "F0 7E 7F 06 01 F7" to all available midi ports on your system.
What that means:
The SW wants to communicate with the MFT via Sysex and - as i assume - if it responds, it probably sets it to some kind of "exclusive configuration" (or flash) mode. To avoid any inference. This would make sense as you "are currently editing its internal config". But its just my experience at this point...

---

I would say, your statement "only one application can access/ receive the controller messages at a time" is (probably) not correct. This would be very unusual, in general, for midi devices. All usual communication between multiple Apps should be possible - if its not in config/flash mode.

---

Any controller recommendations

. My Tip: ARC USB is optimised for RME Units. Standalone and/or in combo with Totalmix. Try to make you familiar with MIDI and Mackie Protocol first, before buying other HW.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2023-01-22
  • Posts: 5

Re: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

Good evening!

@MC: Well, as stated by Maggie, this will probably be it.
And as he quoted as well. the message within the manual is being displayed within the MFT-utility at the bottom.
I just didn't know, how to put it.

I don't know, that it might be a flash mode and how Maggie came to that conclusion.
But my guess was something like an exclusive mode as well. At least from what I could observe.

Sincerely,

a professional greenhorn
  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 470

Re: Controling TMFX via MIDI (FireFace UFX III)

So your "issue" is solved, at all?

I don't know, that it might be a flash mode and how Maggie came to that conclusion.

Maybe a further explanation:

There exist a lot of tools for monitoring MIDI messages on different systems.

Again, the SW sends Identity Requests to all midi ports on startup: "F0 7E 7F 06 01 F7".

See the midi spec: https://midi.org/midi-1-0-universal-sys … e-messages

Detailed explanation:

F0 7E <device ID> 06 01 F7 
      F0 7E <device ID>   Universal System Exclusive Non-real time header (see midi spec)
      06                  General Information (sub-ID#1 - see midi spec) 
      01                  Identity Request (sub-ID#2 - see midi spec) 
      F7                  EOX 

if <device ID> = 7F then the device should respond regardless of what <device ID> it is set to (also described in midi spec).

Again: i cannot verify 100%, as i do not have a MFT here, to see the answers from it.
But putting 1 and 1 together, Identity Requests are usually sent to identify a device, for further in-deep SySex Communication.

Hope it helps.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard