1 (edited by THE47RASCALS 2024-12-05 11:54:56)

Topic: Muting dry signal

hiya

is there a way to mute the dry signal? i can still hear*(sp.edit) the dry signal going into my hardware chain

2 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-05 16:53:07)

Re: Muting dry signal

THE47RASCALS wrote:

is there a way to mute the dry signal? i can still hear*(sp.edit) the dry signal going into my hardware chain

Seems to be a routing issue in your DAW.
Don’t route the dry signal to the monitor path, only the return signal from the hardware chain.

ADI-2/4 Pro SE just plays what you throw at it.


Typical configuration would be:

Set:

• SETUP / Options / Device Mode/DSD / Basic Mode: USB

• For Class Compliant Multi-channel mode:
Unplug USB cable.
SETUP / Options / Device Mode/DSD / CC-Mode: Multichannel
Replug USB cable

• I/O / Phones Out 3/4 / Settings / Rear TRS Source: Ph.3/4,
to use the rear TRS outs as send into the hardware chain.

• Dry tracks or DAW master -> ADI-2 analog out 3/4 -> hardware chain input.
• Hardware chain output -> ADI-2 analog in -> DAW record track
• DAW record track -> DAW monitor path -> ADI-2 channel 1/2 -> monitors and/or headphones.

• Dry tracks (or DAW master) should NOT be routed to DAWs monitor path, hence ADI-2 1/2.
If this is not possible in your DAW (some insist on monitoring the master), use a DAW subgroup as sub-master for the dry tracks, routed to ADI-2 out 3/4.

Re: Muting dry signal

KaiS wrote:
THE47RASCALS wrote:

is there a way to mute the dry signal? i can still hear*(sp.edit) the dry signal going into my hardware chain

Seems to be a routing issue in your DAW.

^ i figured this was the issue.

admittedly i have spent no time configuring an appropriate template inside ableton since having the RME device. thanks for the explanation, will attempt to put the instructions into practice later.

4 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-05 17:08:37)

Re: Muting dry signal

There’s a quick and dirty solution, to listen to the analog hardware chain by switching ADI-2’s monitor channel’s source to “Analog”.
This works in certain configurations / “Modes” only.

In this case you need to use 1/2 for the hardware chain’s and 3/4 as monitor outputs, to separate both.
IMO this is the lesser optimum config, so not really advised.
Only if there’s no DAW for routing it makes some sense.

In general 1/2 is better suited as studio monitor output, as it can handle switching between speakers and headphones with individual settings.

Re: Muting dry signal

KaiS wrote:

There’s a quick and dirty solution, to listen to the analog hardware chain by switching ADI-2’s monitor channel’s source to “Analog”.
This works in certain configurations / “Modes” only.

In this case you need to use 1/2 for the hardware chain’s and 3/4 as monitor outputs, to separate both.
IMO this is the lesser optimum config, so not really advised.
Only if there’s no DAW for routing it makes some sense.

In general 1/2 is better suited as studio monitor output, as it can handle switching between speakers and headphones with individual settings.

yeah i mean ideally i'd like to get it set up neatly, but it doesn't look like ableton is permitting me to. i can't figure this out. i still have the dry signal. currently my set up (with all the configurations set as above on the RME device) are such:

track 1) audio for processing > TRS 3/4 > chain > back in through analog inputs 1/2 and appropriately set on another audio channel.

i mean it shouldn't be that complicated. i have done it with the external audio effect too. and also, attempting to use a channel as a sub-mix prior to the masterbus. nothing is quite as irritating as this lol!

6 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-06 20:49:50)

Re: Muting dry signal

What if you cut the analog mastering chain (unplug cable) - do you still hear the (dry) signal?
Then you still send the dry signal to the master/monitor section inside Ableton.

This is what you need to change.

It’s a routing thing, not directly ADI-2 related, as ADI-2 doesn’t have any internal mix function that could combine dry + wet.

Re: Muting dry signal

yeah if i unplug my chain the dry signal is still there. i understand it's a problem inside ableton. but to my knowledge, the settings are correct. the audio should not sound with out set to 3/4, but for some reason it's audible. monitor is also set to off as should be, sound... persists...

8 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-07 20:57:26)

Re: Muting dry signal

Start over with a new project, just one (the dry) track.
Ignore the return input for a moment.

Now route this track to 3/4.
Does it appear on 3/4 only, or additionally goes to 1/2 too?
(On ADI-2/4’s meter overview you can watch all it’s I/O’s at the same time:
Repeatedly press Encoder 1 or 2 until you see the multi-meter screen.)

If the dry track appears at 3/4 only, add another empty track.
Configure the track for recording the hardware chain and monitor it through 1/2.

On each inter-step, check that the dry track does not appear in the monitor.

Re: Muting dry signal

apologies for the absence KaiS; routing electronics is my kryptonite, i had to take a pause and focus on other things

i have followed your instructions-- it doesn't appear in 1/2 at all during any stage of the process on the RME device

on the volume/balance menu it says phones 3/4 muted

could this be due to using the bal input for headphones?

Re: Muting dry signal

i only managed to sleep for an hour last night so am gonna get to rest. probably just going to reset it to factory settings in the morning and try to follow the instructions from the start again. hopefully that will solve the problem.

11 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-18 20:48:55)

Re: Muting dry signal

OK, and for the moment don‘t use the balanced ‘phones out.

In theory it shouldn’t make a difference in ADI-2/4 Pro SE.
The balanced ‘phones out occupies channel 3/4 only on the ADI-2/4 Pro SE (opposed to ADI-2 Pro where it uses 1/2 AND 3/4).

Still, just to keep the test simple, basic.

Phones on 3/4 isn’t meant to be used at all anyway in what you intend, as is 3/4 part of the analog mastering chain.

For headphones use PH 1/2.

12 (edited by THE47RASCALS 2024-12-19 11:56:13)

Re: Muting dry signal

hmm

did the factory reset, changed the settings to those above

sound has disappeared completely

this is a nightmare

*edit, just to clarify:

if i set the track to out 3/4 and open a return for 1/2, there is no sound

if i leave it as out > main, then set up an external audio device with the sends 3/4 return 1/2, i am in the same predicament. the sound is there, but i cannot remove the dry signal.

Re: Muting dry signal

there is sound intruding from elsewhere too. damn me and my limited knowledge.

so, i have the external audio effect set up on a return channel inside ableton. now, even if i do not send audio to the return channel for the analog chain processing, if it is active, audio that i do not wish to be processed *is*

Re: Muting dry signal

i am going to hazard a guess that this is because ableton master is set to 1/2 out - but i am unaware of how to set it otherwise, as the sound just disappears completely

15 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-19 21:19:08)

Re: Muting dry signal

1/2 as master in Ableton is correct.
If you see a small signal on Ableton’s input it might just be random noise from your analog devices, might even be you’re mistakingly on the PC’s analog input.
At this point we don’t care.


I‘d ask you to thoroughly go through EVERY STEP one by one.
Don’t skip anything.


On ADI-2, set:

• Do a Full Factory Reset again, to avoid any unknown misconfigurations:

While powering up, push and hold the VOL button (NOT the VOLUME dial) and Encoder 1 and Encoder 2, until you see the message: “Reset done“.


• SETUP / Options / Device Mode/DSD / Basic Mode: USB

• For Class Compliant Multi-channel mode:
Unplug USB cable.
SETUP / Options / Device Mode/DSD / CC-Mode: Multichannel
Replug USB cable.

• I/O / Phones Out 3/4 / Settings / Source: USB 3/4.

• I/O / Phones Out 3/4 / Settings / Rear TRS Source: Ph.3/4,
to use the rear TRS outs as send into the hardware chain.

• Make sure ADI-2’s outputs are not muted (would be visible in the main screen’s bottom line).


DAW checklist:
• Start with a fresh project, 2 tracks and master.
Track 1: Dry track with music, routed to ADI-2 output 3/4.
Track 2: Record track, input from ADI-2 analog input 1/2, routed to DAW master, input monitoring active.
MASTER: routed to ADI-2 output 1/2.

Play the project, check:

• Can you select ADI-2’s output 1/2 AND 3/4 (and 5/6, 7/8 which we DON’T use!) in your DAW?
• Can you select ADI-2’s input 1/2 (and 3/4, 5/6 which we DON’T use!) in your DAW’s record track?
• If not, configure the DAW accordingly.
Some need to activate ins and outs in a menu.

This is the final routing config, to double check:
• Dry track -> ADI-2 analog out 3/4 -> hardware chain input.
• Hardware chain output -> ADI-2 analog in -> DAW record track.
• DAW record track monitoring -> DAW master -> ADI-2 channel 1/2 -> monitors and/or headphones.

• Dry track should NOT be routed to DAWs master (ADI-2 1/2).


Check your signal path one by one, in order of signal flow:
(Temporarily break the chain by unplugging analog cables, to verify what exact signal you see).

1. Dry track to ADI-2 3/4:
Does ADI-2’s main screen (meter/analyser) for Phones Out 3/4 show the signal?
You can scroll up/down through ADI-2’s main screens by pushing Encoder 1/2.

2. ADI-2’s main screen (meter/analyser) for Line Or Phones Output 1/2 SHOULD NOT show the (dry) signal.

3. Do the analog mastering devices’ meters show the signal?

4. Is ADI-2’s main screen (meter/analyser) for Analog Input showing the analog return signal?

5. Does the DAW record track show ADI-2’s Analog Input signal?

6. Does this signal (and nothing else) go to DAW’s master?

7. Does the master out signal show up at ADI-2 Line Or Phones Output 1/2 ?


Hint:
For a quick overview there’s a Global Meters main screen in ADI-2, showing all in’s and out’s levels at the same time.
Push Encoder 1 or 2 until you see it.