Topic: Muting dry signal
hiya
is there a way to mute the dry signal? i can still hear*(sp.edit) the dry signal going into my hardware chain
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Muting dry signal
RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → Muting dry signal
Posts: 21
1 2024-12-05 11:51:33 (edited by THE47RASCALS 2024-12-05 11:54:56)
2 2024-12-05 13:49:42 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-05 16:53:07)
Re: Muting dry signal
THE47RASCALS wrote:
is there a way to mute the dry signal? i can still hear*(sp.edit) the dry signal going into my hardware chain
Seems to be a routing issue in your DAW.
Don’t route the dry signal to the monitor path, only the return signal from the hardware chain.
ADI-2/4 Pro SE just plays what you throw at it.
Typical configuration would be:
Set:
• SETUP / Options / Device Mode/DSD / Basic Mode: USB
• For Class Compliant Multi-channel mode:
Unplug USB cable.
SETUP / Options / Device Mode/DSD / CC-Mode: Multichannel
Replug USB cable
• I/O / Phones Out 3/4 / Settings / Rear TRS Source: Ph.3/4,
to use the rear TRS outs as send into the hardware chain.
• Dry tracks or DAW master -> ADI-2 analog out 3/4 -> hardware chain input.
• Hardware chain output -> ADI-2 analog in -> DAW record track
• DAW record track -> DAW monitor path -> ADI-2 channel 1/2 -> monitors and/or headphones.
• Dry tracks (or DAW master) should NOT be routed to DAWs monitor path, hence ADI-2 1/2.
If this is not possible in your DAW (some insist on monitoring the master), use a DAW subgroup as sub-master for the dry tracks, routed to ADI-2 out 3/4.
Re: Muting dry signal
KaiS wrote:
THE47RASCALS wrote:is there a way to mute the dry signal? i can still hear*(sp.edit) the dry signal going into my hardware chain
Seems to be a routing issue in your DAW.
^ i figured this was the issue.
admittedly i have spent no time configuring an appropriate template inside ableton since having the RME device. thanks for the explanation, will attempt to put the instructions into practice later.
4 2024-12-05 17:03:14 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-05 17:08:37)
Re: Muting dry signal
There’s a quick and dirty solution, to listen to the analog hardware chain by switching ADI-2’s monitor channel’s source to “Analog”.
This works in certain configurations / “Modes” only.
In this case you need to use 1/2 for the hardware chain’s and 3/4 as monitor outputs, to separate both.
IMO this is the lesser optimum config, so not really advised.
Only if there’s no DAW for routing it makes some sense.
In general 1/2 is better suited as studio monitor output, as it can handle switching between speakers and headphones with individual settings.
Re: Muting dry signal
KaiS wrote:
There’s a quick and dirty solution, to listen to the analog hardware chain by switching ADI-2’s monitor channel’s source to “Analog”.
This works in certain configurations / “Modes” only.In this case you need to use 1/2 for the hardware chain’s and 3/4 as monitor outputs, to separate both.
IMO this is the lesser optimum config, so not really advised.
Only if there’s no DAW for routing it makes some sense.In general 1/2 is better suited as studio monitor output, as it can handle switching between speakers and headphones with individual settings.
yeah i mean ideally i'd like to get it set up neatly, but it doesn't look like ableton is permitting me to. i can't figure this out. i still have the dry signal. currently my set up (with all the configurations set as above on the RME device) are such:
track 1) audio for processing > TRS 3/4 > chain > back in through analog inputs 1/2 and appropriately set on another audio channel.
i mean it shouldn't be that complicated. i have done it with the external audio effect too. and also, attempting to use a channel as a sub-mix prior to the masterbus. nothing is quite as irritating as this lol!
6 2024-12-06 20:49:28 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-06 20:49:50)
Re: Muting dry signal
What if you cut the analog mastering chain (unplug cable) - do you still hear the (dry) signal?
Then you still send the dry signal to the master/monitor section inside Ableton.
This is what you need to change.
It’s a routing thing, not directly ADI-2 related, as ADI-2 doesn’t have any internal mix function that could combine dry + wet.
Re: Muting dry signal
yeah if i unplug my chain the dry signal is still there. i understand it's a problem inside ableton. but to my knowledge, the settings are correct. the audio should not sound with out set to 3/4, but for some reason it's audible. monitor is also set to off as should be, sound... persists...
8 2024-12-07 20:50:41 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-07 20:57:26)
Re: Muting dry signal
Start over with a new project, just one (the dry) track.
Ignore the return input for a moment.
Now route this track to 3/4.
Does it appear on 3/4 only, or additionally goes to 1/2 too?
(On ADI-2/4’s meter overview you can watch all it’s I/O’s at the same time:
Repeatedly press Encoder 1 or 2 until you see the multi-meter screen.)
If the dry track appears at 3/4 only, add another empty track.
Configure the track for recording the hardware chain and monitor it through 1/2.
On each inter-step, check that the dry track does not appear in the monitor.
Re: Muting dry signal
apologies for the absence KaiS; routing electronics is my kryptonite, i had to take a pause and focus on other things
i have followed your instructions-- it doesn't appear in 1/2 at all during any stage of the process on the RME device
on the volume/balance menu it says phones 3/4 muted
could this be due to using the bal input for headphones?
Re: Muting dry signal
i only managed to sleep for an hour last night so am gonna get to rest. probably just going to reset it to factory settings in the morning and try to follow the instructions from the start again. hopefully that will solve the problem.
11 2024-12-18 15:54:44 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-18 20:48:55)
Re: Muting dry signal
OK, and for the moment don‘t use the balanced ‘phones out.
In theory it shouldn’t make a difference in ADI-2/4 Pro SE.
The balanced ‘phones out occupies channel 3/4 only on the ADI-2/4 Pro SE (opposed to ADI-2 Pro where it uses 1/2 AND 3/4).
Still, just to keep the test simple, basic.
Phones on 3/4 isn’t meant to be used at all anyway in what you intend, as is 3/4 part of the analog mastering chain.
For headphones use PH 1/2.
12 2024-12-19 11:52:35 (edited by THE47RASCALS 2024-12-19 11:56:13)
Re: Muting dry signal
did the factory reset, changed the settings to those above
sound has disappeared completely
this is a nightmare
*edit, just to clarify:
if i set the track to out 3/4 and open a return for 1/2, there is no sound
if i leave it as out > main, then set up an external audio device with the sends 3/4 return 1/2, i am in the same predicament. the sound is there, but i cannot remove the dry signal.
Re: Muting dry signal
there is sound intruding from elsewhere too. damn me and my limited knowledge.
so, i have the external audio effect set up on a return channel inside ableton. now, even if i do not send audio to the return channel for the analog chain processing, if it is active, audio that i do not wish to be processed *is*
Re: Muting dry signal
i am going to hazard a guess that this is because ableton master is set to 1/2 out - but i am unaware of how to set it otherwise, as the sound just disappears completely
15 2024-12-19 16:56:30 (edited by KaiS 2024-12-19 21:19:08)
Re: Muting dry signal
1/2 as master in Ableton is correct.
If you see a small signal on Ableton’s input it might just be random noise from your analog devices, might even be you’re mistakingly on the PC’s analog input.
At this point we don’t care.
I‘d ask you to thoroughly go through EVERY STEP one by one.
Don’t skip anything.
On ADI-2, set:
• Do a Full Factory Reset again, to avoid any unknown misconfigurations:
While powering up, push and hold the VOL button (NOT the VOLUME dial) and Encoder 1 and Encoder 2, until you see the message: “Reset done“.
• SETUP / Options / Device Mode/DSD / Basic Mode: USB
• For Class Compliant Multi-channel mode:
Unplug USB cable.
SETUP / Options / Device Mode/DSD / CC-Mode: Multichannel
Replug USB cable.
• I/O / Phones Out 3/4 / Settings / Source: USB 3/4.
• I/O / Phones Out 3/4 / Settings / Rear TRS Source: Ph.3/4,
to use the rear TRS outs as send into the hardware chain.
• Make sure ADI-2’s outputs are not muted (would be visible in the main screen’s bottom line).
DAW checklist:
• Start with a fresh project, 2 tracks and master.
Track 1: Dry track with music, routed to ADI-2 output 3/4.
Track 2: Record track, input from ADI-2 analog input 1/2, routed to DAW master, input monitoring active.
MASTER: routed to ADI-2 output 1/2.
Play the project, check:
• Can you select ADI-2’s output 1/2 AND 3/4 (and 5/6, 7/8 which we DON’T use!) in your DAW?
• Can you select ADI-2’s input 1/2 (and 3/4, 5/6 which we DON’T use!) in your DAW’s record track?
• If not, configure the DAW accordingly.
Some need to activate ins and outs in a menu.
This is the final routing config, to double check:
• Dry track -> ADI-2 analog out 3/4 -> hardware chain input.
• Hardware chain output -> ADI-2 analog in -> DAW record track.
• DAW record track monitoring -> DAW master -> ADI-2 channel 1/2 -> monitors and/or headphones.
• Dry track should NOT be routed to DAWs master (ADI-2 1/2).
Check your signal path one by one, in order of signal flow:
(Temporarily break the chain by unplugging analog cables, to verify what exact signal you see).
1. Dry track to ADI-2 3/4:
Does ADI-2’s main screen (meter/analyser) for Phones Out 3/4 show the signal?
You can scroll up/down through ADI-2’s main screens by pushing Encoder 1/2.
2. ADI-2’s main screen (meter/analyser) for Line Or Phones Output 1/2 SHOULD NOT show the (dry) signal.
3. Do the analog mastering devices’ meters show the signal?
4. Is ADI-2’s main screen (meter/analyser) for Analog Input showing the analog return signal?
5. Does the DAW record track show ADI-2’s Analog Input signal?
6. Does this signal (and nothing else) go to DAW’s master?
7. Does the master out signal show up at ADI-2 Line Or Phones Output 1/2 ?
Hint:
For a quick overview there’s a Global Meters main screen in ADI-2, showing all in’s and out’s levels at the same time.
Push Encoder 1 or 2 until you see it.
16 Yesterday 14:23:34 (edited by THE47RASCALS Yesterday 14:23:48)
Re: Muting dry signal
1. 3/4 shows full dry signal
2. 1/2 shows wet signal
3. devices show signal
4. analog input shows signal, *but*, the 1/2 reads 'off' (the wet signal still appears in my DAW with the return track however)
5. daw shows wet signal
6. only wet track is routed to the master
7. not sure what you mean here
*edit, and merry christmas xD
17 Yesterday 19:18:13 (edited by KaiS Yesterday 19:22:54)
Re: Muting dry signal
THE47RASCALS wrote:
4. analog input shows signal, *but*, the 1/2 reads 'off' (the wet signal still appears in my DAW with the return track however)
“Off” in the DAW? Maybe not activated, but if it works …
THE47RASCALS wrote:
7. not sure what you mean here
You can hear the DAW Master now, with only the wet signal as intended?!
If yes, all good now, Happy New Year!
Re: Muting dry signal
sorry, for 4. 1/2 on my the ADI says off for some reason. i followed your instructions, so am presuming it is supposed to say such a thing. i couldn't figure out how to turn it 'on' to see if it made a difference.
i wish we were all good now, but now i just hear the dry track, not even the wet. i do appreciate this time spent helping me, i am quite obviously a nimrod with regards to this. all the gear, no idea, as the age old adage goes.
19 Yesterday 22:48:01 (edited by KaiS Yesterday 23:00:41)
Re: Muting dry signal
THE47RASCALS wrote:
sorry, for 4. 1/2 on my the ADI says off for some reason. i followed your instructions, so am presuming it is supposed to say such a thing. i couldn't figure out how to turn it 'on' to see if it made a difference.
i wish we were all good now, but now i just hear the dry track, not even the wet. i do appreciate this time spent helping me, i am quite obviously a nimrod with regards to this. all the gear, no idea, as the age old adage goes.
At which output do you hear the dry track if Line Output 1/2 shows OFF, meaning quiet?
Have you plugged phones into 3/4 to hear the dry track?
You should hear the wet track on your studio monitor speakers, plugged into Line Output 1/2, the rear XLR male connectors.
Currently I’m a bit lost on what‘s going on.
I have no more idea, even checked my own “checklist” again if I missed something.
There are several ways to set Line Output 1/2 “ON” again - I assume factory default setting other than the settings I described, and no ‘phones plugged:
1. Push the VOLUME dial until the square at the bottom of the display is around 1/2, then turn volume up, it will unmute automatically.
2. Press VOL, then push Encoder 1.
3. On the remote app.
Re: Muting dry signal
i hear the dry track inside ableton even when the audio is routed to 3/4 - as is was the case prior to all the new settings. in ableton audio is set no input to 3/4 - but only when i mute that channel (toggle off) does the sound disappear. now to my understanding, routing it to 3/4 should make the audio disappear until i load in a return track. but for some reason. perhaps this ableton vers. is buggy?
i don't have my monitors plugged in, only the bal. headphone socket is used - when i unplug that 1/2 comes back on. but for some reason, when i insert them back into the bal. socket it turns 1/2 off. even with the dial attempt to toggle on inside the RME device, it does not work. i'm not sure what's gone on there.
i will plug in my monitors and download the latest editions of software etc. 'cause i am clueless right now. the strangest thing, is i managed to do this previously without looking at anything. confusing to say the least.
21 Yesterday 23:54:15 (edited by KaiS Today 00:11:43)
Re: Muting dry signal
THE47RASCALS wrote:
…i don't have my monitors plugged in, only the bal. headphone socket is used - when i unplug that 1/2 comes back on. but for some reason, when i insert them back into the bal. socket it turns 1/2 off.
Here’s the culprit:
Balanced ‘phones on ADI-2/4 Pro SE alway is output 3/4 and mutes 1/2 in default settings.
Don’t use balanced ‘phones, use single ended phones connection on PH 1/2 only and leave PH 3/4 and BAL connector alone.
3/4 in the intended configuration is reserved to feed the mastering chain, therefore dry!
REMARK:
if you NEVER want to use speakers, AND really want to use balanced ‘phones, this is possible:• Reverse all 1/2 and 3/4 output (NOT input) assignments in Ableton.
1/2 to feed the dry track to the mastering chain.
3/4 as Master in Ableton, and listening path for the wet signal.• I/O / Phones Out 3/4 / Settings / Rear TRS Source: Line 1/2,
to use the rear TRS outs as send into the hardware chain, now from Line 1/2.Or use the 1/2 XLR outs to feed the dry signal to the mastering chain.
Posts: 21
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