Topic: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Hey guys,

first post here. I've had a Fireface UFXIII for almost a year now and love it.  I also have a Ferrofish Pulse 16 for 16 channels of ADAT in & out.

I need to expqand more so I bought a Ferrofish MX because the UFXIII has MADI. Seemed pretty straight forward; connect the Ferrofish to the UFX with the delivered MADI cable. The problem is; the UFX doesn't even see there is a MADI device connected. The MADI light on the UFX stays off and on the Ferrofish it says "NO LOCK". My ADAT follows the UFX and also my AES to where I connected the ADI 2 Pro.

Pretty frustrating and I think I did all the obvious things correctly. MADI input is set to Autoselect, but all the options don't make a difference. MADI output is set to optical.

I do hear a clicky sound when I change the MADI output though....

The clock source is set to Internal. I'm on Windows 11 and the routing on the Ferrofish is also ok I believe. But I do think the routing on the Ferrofish doesn't even matter at this point since I think it's not even connecting.
I did select the clock source on the Ferrofish to MADI but it does nothing.

Could it be a faulty cable from Ferrofish? It's brand new...

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Most likely a MADI cable issue, unfortunately I have seen some that are broken and some that have the tips reversed on one end.

On the LC end (smaller plugs) try flipping the positions of the two tips. It's easy to change that side.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

I tried to change the tips but it's not possible.

Could it really be that simple? Or do I need to install some extra RME drivers or something?

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

It's definitely possible, there is just a plastic clip holding them together. Take a close look.

There is nothing further to install.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

5 (edited by ramses 2023-12-20 22:15:02)

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Another idea. Maybe wrong SFP in use? Did you get the one from Ferrofish for multimode (for OM3 or OM4 mm fibre cable).
Check also MADIface driver settings whether you use optical.
And whether MADI frame size is 96k on both devices.

You are aware of, that you need to connect with a duplex cable

UFX III                      Ferro
LC Connector            SC Connector
IN    OUT                     IN   OUT
|        +--------->--------+     |         OM3 or OM4 cable
+----------------<--------------+

If duplex cable check the polarity, that out/in of the two devices become properly connected.

To check the cable, perform a loop test on the UFX III: connect MADI OUT with MADI IN, MADI LED should be lit and in the MADIface driver settings dialogue you should get a sync.

Always good to have a 2nd fiber cable and a 2nd SFP as a reserve.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Well, I bought a brand new Ferrofish MX specifically build for MADI purposes and they include a cable that connects only one way to the Ferrofish itself and the RME Fireface UFX3. There is no way to connect it otherwise and if I'm gonna break the plastic omn the cable, which is needed to make it 2 separate cables, I break my warranty. I suspect the cable it comes with should work, Ferrofish stuff is also very compatible with RME (aren't they partners?) si it seems highly unlikely that it's not the right cable.

Everything is on optical now, 96k frame and still nothing. No sign of life. The routing on the Ferrofish is also correct.
Hopefully it's just the cable. Gonna call Ferrofish or RME I think.

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Come on, just separate the Clip. Give the connector a little Twist, the Clip comes right apart.
You can also visually confirm the correct in and out on the cables.  The cable which is on the left side on one end should be on the right side on the other.
Output to input and vice versa.
The cable Costs a few euros, I doubt breaking it will affect the warranty of the whole unit.

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Holy sh*t! Like yu said I could easily separate the cable, even without breaking it, changed the L/R from the little connectors and it CONNECTS!

Will probably run into some other time consuming stuff like routing and all but they see each other now so I assume it's all gonna work!

THANK YOU GUYS!!

9 (edited by ramses 2023-12-21 10:33:14)

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

You're welcome & well done.

I do not know which adapter you mean, the usual way is to buy a LC to SC OM3 or OM4 multimode cable like this.
I would avoid the use of adapters in cases where it is absolutely not needed.

Your adapter cable might have the purpose to do the twist to change TX/RX.

All you need is in fact a proper cable with needed plugs, LC to SC:
https://www.kabelscheune.de/LWL-Kabel-L … 5-OM4.html


UFX III---SC <SC-------------------OM3/4 MM cable-----------------------LC> SFP---Ferrofish

These OM3/4 duplex cables should be prepared so that TX is connected with RX on the other side and vice versa.
But usually every cable has the possibility to flip this at one end, but is a bit "fiddly by nature".

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

I used the cable that came with the Ferrofish! It's this one:

https://www.ferrofish.com/product/sc-lc … ode-cable/

You would think that one would be plug & play right? The cables are clipped together. Probably a mistake in the factory or something..

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Skiggy wrote:

I used the cable that came with the Ferrofish! It's this one:

https://www.ferrofish.com/product/sc-lc … ode-cable/

You would think that one would be plug & play right? The cables are clipped together. Probably a mistake in the factory or something..

Likely. As far as I remember, I could use my cables out of the box.

With 3 devices and different plugs you need to open duplex cables anyway at a certain point to get at least one single cable or you leave the other cable of a duplex cable unused.

Example: RME UFX III, 12Mic, Octamic XTC

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachment/3079-09-rack-back-madi-extfx-cabling-jpg/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Skiggy wrote:

Holy sh*t! Like yu said I could easily separate the cable, even without breaking it, changed the L/R from the little connectors and it CONNECTS!

Will probably run into some other time consuming stuff like routing and all but they see each other now so I assume it's all gonna work!

THANK YOU GUYS!!

Your Welcome, it took only three posts, nr2, nr4, nr7 to convince you try it.
G

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Just to say thanks for this thread. I've just had exact the same experience and fortunately had the same outcome when pulling apart the connector and swapping the in/Out.


M

7950x-win 11|Macbook pro M1 Max-Sonoma| RME Raydat-Ferrofish| Sonnet TB

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Having a similar issue here with my setup. I have the UFX III and two Pulse 16 MX units. When I use one unit with the included cable it works perfectly but when daisy chaining the second device does not get clocked. It says master instead of Madi.Any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance. I have the it setup this way currently. UFX III Madi out to FFP16MX 1 SC to LC FFP16MX1 to the FFP16MX2 LC to LC and finally FFP16MX2 to UFXIII Madi in LC to SC.

15 (edited by ramses Yesterday 20:19:54)

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Bad cable? Bad or wrong multimode SFP module (needs 1310nm wavelength)?

First, I would check both Ferros single and test also all cables and SFPs.
If this works satisfactory, I would start with a two device setup and check proper routing of MADI channels.

Maybe a routing issue on each of the Ferros?
In my setup - chaining multiple devices on one MADI bus (UFX III) -
I also have to route both:
- the used MADI channels by the device and
- for passing though of the unused MADI channels (to the next device) (*)
on each of the connected MADI devices.

(*) On the 1st Ferro to the 2nd, on the 2nd Ferro to the UFX III.

While you are at it, check that all devices (UFX III and the Ferros) use 64ch and 96k MADI frames.
You need it latest for proper clock synchronization via MADI when working at double speed.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

Will try these methods out and report back. Appreciate your advice.

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

So I went thru the steps and it seems that it might be my cables being faulty. Both units work with the dual cable that was provided the box.
As soon as I use the single cables to daisy chain the 3 devices nothing gets locked in sync. Super frustrated at the moment.

18 (edited by ramses Today 10:00:52)

Re: UFX III doesn't recognize Ferrofish MX MADI

So you have three OM3 or OM4 multimode fiber cables?

- Two SC-LC and
- one LC-LC?

Did you properly connect MADI OUT with MADI IN on each of the devices?

           UFX III                        Ferro#1                    Ferro#2                  UFX III
Cable      OUT------------------>IN  OUT--------------->IN  OUT------------->IN
PlugType   SC.........................LC   LC......................LC   LC...................SC

When plugging the simplex cable to the LC port, you need to be careful, to properly plug them in and that the sending port on one device is connected to the receiving port on the next device in the chain and back to the UFX III.

The final locking of the metal latch after inserting the connector can be somewhat more difficult with OM4 multimode simplex cables (possibly also depending on the cable manufacturer), compared to duplex cables.
With duplex variants, the two connected connectors provide more mutual stability, making it easier to lock and unlock the metal latch of the SFP for securing and releasing both, the SFP itself and the plugs of the cables.

When using simplex cables, I have encountered last recently the issue that the locking mechanism can be quite tricky. In my case, the metal latch somehow slipped under the LC connector’s locking mechanism, making it very difficult to release the latch and remove the connector to reinsert it properly.

With my previous duplex cables, the connectors also snapped in more easily and locking the metal latch of the SFP was effortless. Here, I had to slightly bend the plastic latch on the LC plug to get it to fully engage in the SFP and to "snap in".

To rule out any kind of connection errors in this "chain of MADI devices", I would recommend rechecking the entire multimode cabling.

Even though you likely already know this, just to ensure we have the same basic understanding of the device-to-device wiring:

#1 A MADI I/O port on a device has one jack for transmitting and one for receiving.

#2 When daisy-chaining multiple MADI devices, you must connect the transmit port of one device to the receive port
  of the next device, and finally looping back to the recording interface where the chain started.
  So: from UFX III (out) to Ferro#1 (in), from Ferro#1 (out) to Ferro#2 (in), from Ferro#2 (out) back to UFX III (in).

#3 Ensure that the SFP modules are properly seated so that the transceivers are fully inserted and snap into their final position. By locking the metal latch both will be locked, the SFP and the plugs of the multimode cables.

#4 All devices need to be powered (besides proper cabling), otherwise the chain of devices is broken,
      audio transmission towards UFX III won't work and you also do not get clock synchronization.

#5 You checked that the two SFP for the Ferrofish are both for multimode (not singlemode) and have 1310nm wavelength

Also ensuring the following two things might help:

#6 Check if your Ferrofish has a settings which the "preferred clock" is.
      If such a setting is possible, then set it to "MADI optical".
      The M-1620 Pro default setting for preferred clock was "Word Clock" initially.
      When I deleted all MADI routing on the device clock synch failed.
      After setting preferred clock to "MADI optical", then clock synch worked even if the routing of MADI channels
      on the device was not yet done/ready.
      Or in other words, if your Ferro has no setting for preferred clock it might also default to WC.
      Then clock synch possibly also won't work, until you finalized all the MADI routing on each Ferro.
      What needs to be routed? Everything, the channels that you use and those for other devices, see next point.

#7 Ensure that the MADI routing on each of the Ferrofishes is ok and that you route
     - proper MADI in/out channels for the particular device
     - passing through of all other channels (the channels of other devices and those which are not in use)

Please double-check that the multimode cables are correctly connected from device to device (MADI output of one device to the MADI input of the next device in the chain).

Pay particular attention to the proper seating of the SFP and the connectors.
This is easier with the slightly larger SC connector on the UFX III,
whereas potential issues are more likely to occur at the SFP ports of the Ferrofish units.

You can check the clock synchronization status to see, whether the cabling is poper.
Assumed the UFX III is clock master and the ferros are configured as slaves getting clock from their optical MADI inputs.
Best is to ensure that also the MADI frame size is configured to "96k frames" on all devices.

Then you can use the clock synchronization status at two locations
a) MADIface driver settings, you should get for MADI Opt. the status "Sync" (lock is not sufficient).
b) at the front of the UFX III the green Sync Status LED for MADI

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10