Topic: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

Ive had the UC for about a year now, right from the beginning I would get audio/drop out distortion for about a second, this makes the play back loose time, Ive tried going back from snow leopard with a clean install, new/old drivers and so on.

basically my $1500 'pro' audio card is unusable live.

And tech support replies to my emails intermittently and when it has replied.......well I still have the problem even about a year later sad


IS THIS GOOD ENOUGH?

because Im really pissed I still dont have a reliable solution to play live ! ! !

I payed the big bucks for the best instead of buying the rest
but it doesnt work and the makers couldnt care less boom chick boom chick chick....

and so on and so on ......

reverbnation.com/ovorigin

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

I have this same issue. I've been troubleshooting to try to figure out if it's the FFUC or the macbook pro (mid 2010) I really want to use ine live as well.

www.toddbass.com
Macbook pro i7 15" (mid 2012) 8 gigs ram, Fireface UCX

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

Hi,
sorry, your last mail was spam-trapped.

ovorigin wrote:

Ive had the UC for about a year now, right from the beginning I would get audio/drop out distortion for about a second, this makes the play back loose time, basically my $1500 'pro' audio card is unusable live.

In one of your mails, you mentioned this does not happen at a buffer size of 512, but does so at 64. This quite clearly indicates that it is likely to be an issue of computer performance rather than something that is caused by the UC, even though the obvious symptoms show up there. Excuse the silly analogy, but even though your nose is running when you have a cold, the nose itself is not to blame and not the cause... :roll

Apparently, your Core 2 MBP is not the very latest model, and may in fact simply be unable to cope with your projects at 64 samples. Have you considered this possibility? Have you also considered a faster MBP?

because Im really pissed I still dont have a reliable solution to play live!!!
I payed the big bucks for the best instead of buying the rest
but it doesnt work and the makers couldnt care less boom chick boom chick chick....

There is a bit of a misconception here - regardless of the price, any soundcard can only work as well as the computer's performance will allow. The FF UC can not increase your system's performance or reduce latency. "Pro" does not mean "magic"...

The Fireface UC is a product of the year 2009, i.e. with latest technology, and works best with current computers.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

4 (edited by gtodd876 2011-03-14 23:17:08)

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

Not sure if that post was only aimed at the OP but as for me I'm using a mid 2010 Macbook pro with UC and I can't use it live yet. I wish I had more tools to diagnose the problem. I don't need 'Magic' but I just need to be stable with 128 sample buffer. A macbook pro i7 should easily be able to handle this task. My CPU is always 35% or lower. I'm not sure if it's a background process since it happens rarely but enough to keep me from playing live. It's a very strange sounding audio glitch. This is not the normal pop or click people speak of with buffer underuns.

I get amazing recording performance with Reaper but trying to use Mainstage or Bidule for live performance is when I get these glitches.

Again, I would love to hear of some tools or methods to help me diagnose this problem but  so far all I've heard is to search for IOAudioStream in the Console after it happens. I've done that located these message but I don't have a computer science degree so I don't know where to go from there:)

I completely understand the OP's frustration because the main reason I bought both of these was to perform live. These were two very major purchases for me (Macbook pro i7 17" + FFUC) yet I seem like I'm in the same situation as when I used an old macbook white and an motu ultralite. I made the false assumption that if I throw 3500 american dollars at my live performance issue my dreams would come true and all my problems would go away. Now after spending that kind of cash I realize I made the wrong decision. I will have to continue to  spend my time troubleshooting instead of making music and all the while working my tail off to continue to make my payments on this (at least to me) extremely expensive gear that doesn't accomplish the task I purchased it for.

You live and you learn.

www.toddbass.com
Macbook pro i7 15" (mid 2012) 8 gigs ram, Fireface UCX

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

For the record I don't mean to sound like I'm pointing the finger only at RME. I realize this could be an issue with Apple(OSX or Mainstage), RME, or Bidule. There were some fixes with the i7 processors and Mainstage with the 10.6.5 update so maybe there could be more issues. That's the problem with computers for audio. Lots of variables and unless you are a programmer or computer scientist there not much you can do about problems (especially with OSX) if they arise. You just kick back, wait for updates, and hope for the best.

I just have to share my experience because most of what you hear out there is that a macbook pro and RME would be a rock solid combo. My advice to others that are thinking about going this route is to make sure you buy with a return policy and make sure you have the time to really put the gear to the test if you buy it.

www.toddbass.com
Macbook pro i7 15" (mid 2012) 8 gigs ram, Fireface UCX

6 (edited by ovorigin 2011-03-15 02:30:29)

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

RME Support wrote:

In one of your mails, you mentioned this does not happen at a buffer size of 512, but does so at 64. This quite clearly indicates that it is likely to be an issue of computer performance rather than something that is caused by the UC,

You advertise the UC as 'The low latency product' I was able to run at 128k on the same machine with a Duet with ease and even at 64k which worked also but less reliably. With the over heads of firewire exactly how is your product ANY better for latency? All the talk of how you have bypassed the usb protocol by writing your own and so one but at the end of the day is it just advertising hype? Its very much starting to feel that way.

RME Support wrote:

Apparently, your Core 2 MBP is not the very latest model, and may in fact simply be unable to cope with your projects at 64 samples. Have you considered this possibility? Have you also considered a faster MBP?

So If I go out and buy brand new MBP tomorrow and Im still getting the same problem is RME going to pay for my new machine?

or even fix/replace the product they sold me.........

I know what audio sounds like when a computer cant cope with the latency and this problem ISNT it, the UC plays at 64k with no pops clicks or signs of stress which is why I bought it when I tested it in store and 'upgraded' from the Duet but every so often it quite literally SHITS its self. All I upgraded was my mastercard debt.

RME Support wrote:

any soundcard can only work as well as the computer's performance will allow. The FF UC can not increase your system's performance or reduce latency.

Funny, your advertising of the UC suggests as much. I broke a cardinal rule buying th UC which is NEVER buy usb interfaces, I feel like such a stupid consumer victim of advertising.

RME Support wrote:

The Fireface UC is a product of the year 2009, i.e. with latest technology, and works best with current computers.

Well when the UC was released the i5/i7 had been out only 1 month meaning rme would have been developing the UC on the core 2 platform, Core 2 could hardly of been considered an old/surpassed architecture at the time, yes mine is older but the technology is still a core 2. My cpu is never above 40% so I am not stressing my system by any means, I dont want to sound like a whiney little bitch but Ive been down the 'buy the latest/most expensive' path before and it almost never solved my problems and nearly always created new ones.

With in days of posting this another user WHO ALSO HAS A NEW MACHINE says he has similar issues so this just strengthens my argument against throwing away more good money......

So basically your telling me that your 'low latency' product cant achieve any lower latency than the countless other (and far cheaper) firewire products on the market?

this IS effectively what you are saying if your stating my computer is to old when an old school DUET was able to achieve much the same.

my reply is 'NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A GOOD ENOUGH RESPONSE'

whats really sad is that a part of me wants you to be right and believe that buying a new MBP will solve everything, that would be easier than the FULL YEAR OF FRUSTRATION Ive had to endure with the promise of just being able to make music with a laptop that RME and others advertise, but thats how you 'get' us isnt it and keep the cycle of consumers buying 'the next' thing............makes my blood boil.

reverbnation.com/ovorigin

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

ovorigin wrote:

You advertise the UC as 'The low latency product' I was able to run at 128k on the same machine with a Duet with ease and even at 64k which worked also but less reliably. With the over heads of firewire exactly how is your product ANY better for latency?

If your MBP does not work reliably at 64 samples (not k) with the Duet, then apparently it can't handle your projects at this latency.
And the Duet is a Firewire interface, this may also make a difference on this MBP to a degree.

All the talk of how you have bypassed the usb protocol by writing your own and so one but at the end of the day is it just advertising hype? Its very much starting to feel that way.

No, it's a fact. But all this does need a solid base to work well.


I know what audio sounds like when a computer cant cope with the latency and this problem ISNT it, the UC plays at 64k with no pops clicks or signs of stress which is why I bought it when I tested it in store and 'upgraded' from the Duet but every so often it quite literally SHITS its self.

What indication do you have of the UC actually causing these phenomena?
Have you tested it with another computer? If the unit turned out to be defective, it would be repaired. If you suspected as much, you could have sent it in long ago for checkup/repair.

Funny, your advertising of the UC suggests as much.

Quote, please.


So basically you're telling me that your 'low latency' product cant achieve any lower latency than the countless other (and far cheaper) firewire products on the market?

It's your computer that needs to "achieve" low-latency operation. Your above statement indicates it can not reliably do so at 64 samples even with the Duet.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

If your it's computer, then Macbook pro are not the answer. My 2010 MBP i7 is not the answer and someone else posted they have distorted sound problems with a 2011 Macbook pro.

I'm curious then which PC notebooks have solid performance with the Fireface UC? No strange glitches or dropouts at 128 sample rate buffer with up to 40-50% CPU usage. This would be the ultimate. I have never experienced that yet.


Is there anyway for people with USB issues on the new MBP's to swap a UC for the firewire version?

www.toddbass.com
Macbook pro i7 15" (mid 2012) 8 gigs ram, Fireface UCX

9 (edited by ovorigin 2011-03-15 15:27:27)

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

would the firewire version make any difference, Id doubt it...

Is a new machine going to solve our problems, probably not...

will a new sound card come out claiming to solve them, absolutely...

will I be desperate enough to give it another chance........SIGH!

You want a Quote? ok 'the Fireface UC provides revolutionary ultra-low latencies' and 'the available latencies* are simply sensational. The smallest buffer offered under Windows has 48 samples, under Mac OS X 14 samples.'

then in features again ' also provides a unique low-latency concept'

RME DO advertise it as a low latency card no less than 3 times on the first page. While it achieves no lower Latency than the technology before it on an identical machine Is my experience.

I bet I can find a whole heap of ppl with my machine who do run it at 64 samples without my errors

on that note, are you saying that you dont know anyone with a 2.4 core 2 that runs at 64 samples stably?

reverbnation.com/ovorigin

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

ovorigin wrote:

would the firewire version make any difference, Id doubt it...

On your MBP, maybe. But maybe not, considering it doesn't perform that much better with the Duet.

Is a new machine going to solve our problems, probably not...

More likely IMHO.

will a new sound card come out claiming to solve them, absolutely...

Certainly not from RME. Nowhere do we claim that our sound card solve inefficient computers' inherent performance issues.

You want a Quote? ok 'the Fireface UC provides revolutionary ultra-low latencies' and 'the available latencies* are simply sensational. The smallest buffer offered under Windows has 48 samples, under Mac OS X 14 samples.'

The UC allows the use of such low latencies. It's still the computer that has to complete all required chores (effects, virtual instruments) withing the specified latency time.
There are other potential causes of disturbance, of course, matters of individual system configuration - have you tried disabling Wireless Network? You could also search this forum and you will come up with lots of threads discussing Macbooks, maybe some will contain helpful information.

then in features again ' also provides a unique low-latency concept'

How does this imply that the UC can actually actively improve a computer's performance to enable it to perform at significantly lower latencies than before?


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

'have you tried disabling Wireless Network?'

yep been thru the merry go round of possible fixes, I run at 64 samples with no pops or clicks for minutes to hours (occasionally days) at a time without my dreaded distortion spike/audio/timing drop outs, so if my system can to this for sustained periods then why is it my machine that is the 'weak link'?

You didnt answer my question at the end in my last post!

I asked if you 'dont' know anyone else who can run at 64 samples with my machine stably?

reverbnation.com/ovorigin

12 (edited by gtodd876 2011-03-16 02:16:39)

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

I have this exact same issue. Not sure if you've already done this but Oblique Strategies told me to search for IOAudioStream in the Console application right after this happens to see if you have any errors and I did.

There has to be some way we can get to the bottom of this.

www.toddbass.com
Macbook pro i7 15" (mid 2012) 8 gigs ram, Fireface UCX

Re: Faulty product/no reply/no solution?

well your computer is a bit old, buy a new one, get the 'update your drivers/turn this on off/uninstall this/ install that' replies for 12 months then they can say that computer needs to be upgraded then 'rinse and repeat'.

Or just wait till I buy a new 2011 and watch me go thru it instead : /

reverbnation.com/ovorigin