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RME User Forum → FireWire & USB series → A call to all core2 and UC users (especially of the santarosa era)
Install SMCfancontroll for manual control over your fans.
@Khazul: your eSata report makes me worry. All 2008/09 MBP don't work reliable with no eSata card (regardless of chipset), but the Marvell based Tempo Pro at least works best. This was finally fixed with the chipset change of the 2010 MBP. Now you say it's broken again on the 2011 MBP? Urgs
Install SMCfancontroll for manual control over your fans.
@Khazul: your eSata report makes me worry. All 2008/09 MBP don't work reliable with no eSata card (regardless of chipset), but the Marvell based Tempo Pro at least works best. This was finally fixed with the chipset change of the 2010 MBP. Now you say it's broken again on the 2011 MBP? Urgs
SMC fan controll seems bugged to me and resulted in the fans running too slowly at max speed (seems to lock the fans to a max speed of 5500). Uninstalling it an an SMC reset sort of fixes it to get your max fan speed back up to what it should be, or maybe it just gets it wrong on the 2011 MBPs.
This is confusing - "All 2008/09 MBP don't work reliable with no eSata card"
Did you mean 'no' or 'an'?
Ths esata oddity seems to only apply with the new WD Scorpio Black 750GB drive. Seems OK with my WD Scorpio Black 320GB drive and other smaller/older drives. I havnt yet tried it with the Seagate 500GB momentus that was originally in my MBP. Shame I couldnt try the OWC esata card under windows to the same drive to see if it worked better (cant as its now in the machine partitioned for OSX and windows).
Chipsets for my cards:
OWC eSATA - JMicron and uses the JM driver that is included in OSX.
Sonnet Tempo - Silicon Image and installs its own driver (this was specifically recommended for a tiny portable RAID box I have that apparently will support upto 2x2TB drives when such capacity drives are available in 2.5") - for now though it just has a 500GB momentus and a 320GB Scorpio black in it acessable as separate drives.
Both cards are supported natively by Windows 7/64.
I meant that no eSata card worked reliable with 2008/09 MBP, I tried them all with different Drives. Since 2010 the is a new Pcie 2.0 chipset used which seems to have solved the issues (only Tool 2 Years).
Watch out when attaching any external device that uses its own power-supply though (powered USB hubs, ff uc, display). If you do that while transferring data via eSata you may stall the eSata connection (grounding issue of the MBP).
Does the 2011 finally allow to hotplug EC in Win? 2008/09 didn't work at all with Vista/7 and 2010 either needs the card to be insert before booting or manually tell device-manager to "Search for new hardware" everytime you plug/unplug the card or the drive.
To quote an infamous Abe forumite: it just works. 
If SMCfancontroll does not work use Coolbook to apply medium high load. The fan on the MBP ramps up slowly (which is good to begin with). Unfortunately it can happen that "sudden" high CPU load makes the fans not kick in.
I saw over 100C while the maximum allowed temp is 105C according to Intel specs.
Maybe consider something like this: http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6647
The sonnet tempo is absolutey fine in windows - its the OWC JM card that needs a rescan all the time. Coming to the conclusion that the JM chipset is just not very good.
@oblique strategies:
Does this happen immediately after powering on/starting the application, or only after a few minutes? I am wondering if perhaps your machine is getting too hot in OSX.
The problem I have is that I am getting ONE highly noticeable dropout per session. Fortunately, this is not occurring every time I use the FFUC, but quite often.
I can get the drop out & its associated IOAudio Errors after running Live for hours, or only a few minutes after launching Live. I also can get these with the most minimal session possible: one soundfile (a pre-recorded song) playing. No plugins, no midi, etc.
I would suggest you try an SMC and NVRAM reset (search apple support for the proceedure for your specific macbook pro - probably same procedure as mine, but cant remember it off hand). How old is you machine? Is it likely the fans and intakes are getting dusty? If it has been used on stage and in clubs alot, then consider that smoke machines and hazers etc tend to leave a slightly sticky residue on everything which tends to trap dust in the air significantly reducing the effectiveness of fans and heatsinks etc.
Just a thought...
It's an early 2008 (MacBook Pro4,1), 2.5 GHz, 4 GB RAM, OS X 10.6.7.
It has not been gigged with, & I keep the vents dusted. I also keep it on a stand that raises the back end up about 2.5" to allow for air flow. I am not noticing heavy fan activity when I get the drop out. But my fans have run wild on occasion. I've been meaning to get CoolBook for awhile now & will probably get it ASAP since I'm getting desperate for a stable flow of audio.
I just reset the PRAM & NVRAM, as per instructions from an Apple tech as troubleshooting steps to try to fix my display that went haywire yesterday! It did not fix the display, so it's off for repairs on Wednesday. I'm having the techs look into a variety of issues with the hopes that something they do or fix might just help the audio issues. Cross fingers, because that would be a nice bonus.
The sonnet tempo is absolutey fine in windows - its the OWC JM card that needs a rescan all the time. Coming to the conclusion that the JM chipset is just not very good.
I'm using it myself. Once it's detected it stays detected on my Win 7 2010 MBP. Same with another JMB360 and a 2-port JMB362 card.
It's not Windows exclusive, same happens with the EFI boot menu. Seems that OS X keeps polling for new cards.
Or do you mean you can hot-plug the SIL based card? In that case its driver must be polling for it regularly.
The RME HDSPe need manual detection, too, if it's not inserted before boot.
The SI based card was detected by windows even before it activated a driver for it (ie the first time it was ever plugged in). The JM card OTOH has never been auto-detected - allways have to scan for hardare changes in device manager. Doesnt matter whether there is an active eSATA drive on it or not.
In OSX however, both cards are detected as soon as they are plugged in, just the JM seems to not like the specific drive I needed it to work with. It has allways worked fine in EFI as well for me. Im not sure which specific JM chipset it is - the card I have is the single port OWC slim. The Sonnet tempo is also a single port.
OK - this randomness got me curious and I just stuffed them both into an old HP laptop running Windows 7/32 home premium:
The OWC JM was detected and driver auto installed correctly (Standard AHCI SATA controller).
The Sonnet tempo SI was detected as a devce, but failed to find driver. In device manager after doing a scan for new devices windows went hunting on windows update and fond and auto-instaled the correct driver (SIL storage controller) from there.
Both cards now auto detect in device manager when inserted.
To confirm on 2011 Macbook with Windows 7/64 Ultimate:
The OWC JM Card does NOT auto detect.
The Sonnet tempo SI card does auto detect and even EFS drives are accessable through it due to bootcamp filesystem driver (whereas they are not via my WD passport FW800 for eg).
On a Lenovo laptop running Windows 7/64 enterprise edition:
The OWC JM Card does NOT auto detect.
The Sonnet tempo SI card does auto detect.
So this actually looks to me like a Windows 7/64 plug and play compatibility issue and not an MBP specific issue.
(Again, ignoring that the JM card seems to hate my new 750GB WD scorpio black)
@mods - I know - were a bit OT now, but we got here (eSATA cards) exploring reasons for audio glitches in audio apps on a machine with RME hardware attached that shouldnt glitch 
On MBP later than 2009 both RME ExpressCards (to get ontopic again) and the OWC should be detected by Windows when you have them insert before turning on the Mac. The Owc should also allow booting from, but again only if it's insert (and HD connected and powered) before turning on the Mac.
Device-Manager manual detection should only be necessary if you insert/remove the card or connect/disconnect the drive afterwards.
The Multiface can be hotplugged from a running HDSPe without manual detection though, the RME driver seems to handle this on its own.
If the 2011 MBP acts differently the EFI must have changed for worse again.
The 2008/09 only allow the EC slot to be used with Windows XP and you must insert the card before turning on the Mac. Manual detection is not possible later.
I can get the drop out & its associated IOAudio Errors after running Live for hours, or only a few minutes after launching Live. I also can get these with the most minimal session possible: one soundfile (a pre-recorded song) playing.
Does it not happen with the onboard sound then?
Did you try the same in Reaper (or Logic if available)?
I have the same issue as Oblique. I contacted Apple and they said they have forwarded my whole experience to the engineering team since I have found a workaround with the same exact hardware using windows. Thanks to you Timur.
I have had the audio glitch happen in Logic, Mainstage and Ableton. I have not happen in Reaper but is probably just because I don't use the program as much.
It is indeed rare I can go sometimes hours before it rears it's ugly head but would completely prevent you from trying to take your set to a live environment. It also scares the crap out of me when it happens because I usually have headphones on and the audio gets all wacked out for a couple secs:)
oblique strategies wrote:I can get the drop out & its associated IOAudio Errors after running Live for hours, or only a few minutes after launching Live. I also can get these with the most minimal session possible: one soundfile (a pre-recorded song) playing.
Does it not happen with the onboard sound then?
Did you try the same in Reaper (or Logic if available)?
It does not happen when using the onboard sound output. It does not happen with iTunes, QuickTime, or the DVD player.
I haven't checked other audio software because I do everything in Live. I don't have Logic or any other DAW.
A frustrating aspect is that everyone involved: RME, Apple, & Ableton point the finger at everyone else!:roll
I know it's a system, & instability is a part of its vary nature, but I never had these issues when using my Multiface + PCMCIA or Expresscard.
I really wish someone at RME would respond to my requests for info regarding the IOAudioStream Errors that accompany the dropouts. It's really the only clue I have to work with.
Timur wrote:oblique strategies wrote:I can get the drop out & its associated IOAudio Errors after running Live for hours, or only a few minutes after launching Live. I also can get these with the most minimal session possible: one soundfile (a pre-recorded song) playing.
same here
Does it not happen with the onboard sound then?
Did you try the same in Reaper (or Logic if available)?
It does not happen when using the onboard sound output. It does not happen with iTunes, QuickTime, or the DVD player.
It doesn occur ever with in built sound (yet the problem is with my computer? hmmm)
A frustrating aspect is that everyone involved: RME, Apple, & Ableton point the finger at everyone else!:roll
ha, they sure do, and why not they got our money, now all they have to do is wait us out until we give up in despair..
I really wish someone at RME would respond to my requests for info regarding the IOAudioStream Errors that accompany the dropouts. It's really the only clue I have to work with.
as above
as above
...so below
Forgive me, but I couldn't resist.
Once you turn Live's priority to realtime on Windows (cures Live's GUI and mouse-actions causing dropouts) and Windows's power-scheme to high performance Live should run better on Windows than OS X.
I highly recommend trying Service Pack 1 with High Performance profile. It runs the CPU at maximum frequency but does not turn off Core Parking like the Presonus profile does. On the other hand it still allows CPU idle states and thus runs cooler and draws less power.
The 2008-2010 MBP also needs some fixes for the misbehaving Nvidia driver to run audio smoothly.
For owners of 2010 MBP - after some hours of analysing the working Quadro driver - I identified a single registry patch that cures the ongoing Nvidia induced dropouts. You still need to use Powermizer Manager to stop the Gpu from switching modes though.
Just to mention it: the UC's roundtrip times are very slightly lower on Windows compared to OS X:
http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7235
I will try to reproduce the OS X issues reported in this thread. Any way of making it happen more likely?
RME User Forum → FireWire & USB series → A call to all core2 and UC users (especially of the santarosa era)
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