1 Topic by wildthing (edited by wildthing 2011-06-08 20:59:23)

  • Registered: 2011-06-08
  • Posts: 38

Topic: Is the BabyFace right for me?

Hi all, need some help working out whether the BabyFace is the right audio interface for me.

After reading the documentation I have the following queries:

1. Driver stability. I have an iMac that is used both as a very small studio AND living room computer, which is used by more than one person under different OS X accounts, and regularly put to sleep when not in use. I've had a lot of issues with various other audio interfaces in the past, both USB and Firewire, where they get into some weird states typically where no sound comes out after waking the computer from sleep, often requiring a reboot (I suspect driver stability issues).

I really hate it when I come home from work and my wife says "I couldn't get any sound today" (she only uses the audio interface for iTunes). If there's one thing I want from an audio interface, it is that when you press Play in iTunes, SOUND COMES OUT. I heard that RME have very stable drivers, so my question is - do they keep working reliably even after successive sleep/wake cycles and different users logging in to the computer?

2. Lack of modal behaviour affecting main outputs. I want an audio interface with a minimum of modal behaviour affecting the main outputs, so you can't easily put the device into a strange mode where no sound comes out of the main outputs by accident. The only real modal behaviour I can see on the BabyFace is that the Select and Dim functions for the main rotary controller, which I think I can live with. But I'm not sure about what modal mayhem you can create with TotalMix and whether this survives sleep/wake and logging in as a different user. (It might be OK because whatever I do in TotalMix, I'll probably always have the main system output routed to outputs 1 and 2 anyway.)

3. What setting does the rotary's Select button default to, when you first switch on the Babyface - Out? And if you put your computer to sleep and wake it up again, does the Select button return to the default setting, or does it remember where you left it?

4. If you select the BabyFace as your OS X system audio output in System Preferences -> Sound, is the overall OS X system volume control in the top right menu bar still usable, or is it disabled?

5. Can I route a stereo pair to an external effect unit and back for processing, while still monitoring on the main outputs? It sounds like I'd need to use the additional headphone output (unbalanced) 3+4 for the send, and the input XLRs for the effect returns, correct? That means the send is unbalanced and the return is balanced, which seems a bit strange.

6. Regarding headphone volume - I have a pair of AKG K240DF phones which are 600 ohms, I understand they will be quieter because this is a very high impedance. But just how quiet?  I like to monitor at fairly low volumes anyway. I also have a pair of Sony MDR7509 phones which are 24 ohms I believe, but I prefer the AKGs because they're semi-open and clearer sounding.

Thanks!

  • Registered: 2011-04-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

I have the same setup. iMac wich i also use as a mediacenter in a living room - "it just works". With the actual driver and firmware everything is very stable. Standby of the Mac is no problem.
Once you setup total-mix it works like the internal sound card. Volume can be controled at the babyface knob or with mac os keyboard, in itunes or the status bar.

  • Knut
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Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

1. Driver stability.

Perfect!

2. Lack of modal behaviour affecting main outputs.

TotalMix provides a lot of "modal" behaviour. From EQ, Reverb and the most complex routing engine on the planet. It is a serious tool for audio engineers. It's good to have those features for most of the users. Some of them want even more.

3. What setting does the rotary's Select button default to, when you first switch on the Babyface - Out?

It remembers the last thing it does before - when TotalMix starts. Ins, outs or phones.


4. If you select the BabyFace as your OS X system audio output in System Preferences -> Sound, is the overall OS X system volume control in the top right menu bar still usable, or is it disabled?

It's usable - for the internal audio chip of the iMac. Not for the Babyface.


Can I route a stereo pair to an external effect unit and back for processing, while still monitoring on the main outputs? That means the send is unbalanced and the return is balanced, which seems a bit strange.

The output 3/4 is designed for headphones, but can be also used as unbalanced line outputs. For effect loops the Babyface provides an optical output for a direct connection or the connection of external AD/DA converters with up to 8 balanced or unbalanced channels.

But I'am not sure with such a setup you will come home and your wife will say everytime, "Great! I could get any sound I wanted from iTunes today."


6. Regarding headphone volume - I have a pair of AKG K240DF phones which are 600 ohms, I understand they will be quieter because this is a very high impedance. But just how quiet?

Up to 80 Ohm it's not quiet at all. I've never tried an 600 Ohm. But could be too quiet.

All in all I think you should give the Babyface a try. It's provides a lot professional features but can be used easily as soundcard for a simple music playback. And it sounds much better than the internal sound chip of every Mac.

Maybe you should think about the Ladyface - there is a good chance your wife will love it.

best regards
Knut

4 Reply by wildthing (edited by wildthing 2011-06-10 00:10:50)

  • Registered: 2011-06-08
  • Posts: 38

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

Thanks for your replies - the reports about driver stability sound very encouraging.

I think it will be fine as long as the unit's /physical/ controls don't allow any further modal behaviour, beyond that already mentioned.

Admin Knut wrote:

Maybe you should think about the Ladyface - there is a good chance your wife will love it.

Actually, you've given me an idea for a feature request! What if the interface could be configured such that when a certain user logs into the computer, the unit automatically goes into "wife mode", where operation of the unit is drastically simplified? TotalMix would be bypassed, the Select, Recall and Dim operations would do nothing, and the rotary control would control both speaker and headphone volume simultaneousy (on the basis that one or the other might be used, but not both at the same time). That would be awesome ;-)

(p.s. hope I haven't offended anyone - I'm sure there are a lot of great female audio engineers out there! You could brand it as "pure-DAC mode" and market it to audiophiles as well!)

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Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

the unit automatically goes into "wife mode", where operation of the unit is drastically simplified? TotalMix would be bypassed, the Select, Recall and Dim operations would do nothing, and the rotary control would control both speaker and headphone volume simultaneousy

TotalMix canot be bypassed. But here is a workspace file doing your wife mode: https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/Ba … A_mode.zip

Recall/DIM are set to 0 dB. AN 1/2 and Phones Out linked together and set to -4 dB. The encoder controls both at once. All channels are routed to both analog stereo outputs, so Main and Phones get the same signals.

best regards
Knut

  • Registered: 2011-06-08
  • Posts: 38

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

Wow, thanks Knut! I was kinda half joking, not expecting it to be possible - but now you got me interested.

I wonder if there's a way to automate or script loading a workspace into the Babyface? If so, I could tie it to the login event so that when a certain user logs in to the computer, a specified workspace loads automatically. Am thinking it might be possible using OS X AppleScript, Automator or somesuch (I haven't used these much before).

Anyway I've placed my order for a Babyface, so when it arrives I'll give it a go! cool

  • Registered: 2011-06-08
  • Posts: 38

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

OK, my Babyface arrived, and overall I'm extremely pleased! Great sound, great ergonomics, and TotalMix is both intuitive and powerful.

The volume through my 600 ohm AKG K240DF phones is fine - the max volume is about the loudest I'd ever want to listen at anyway.

I don't think the "auto-loading a workspace when a user logs in" idea is really necessary - I just need to remember that when I finish any studio-type activity, I'll load a default workspace that allows simple iTunes playback.

I do have a few issues I need help with, but I'll write about these in another thread.

Cheers

8 Reply by wildthing (edited by wildthing 2011-06-21 23:52:48)

  • Registered: 2011-06-08
  • Posts: 38

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

Admin Knut wrote:

4. If you select the BabyFace as your OS X system audio output in System Preferences -> Sound, is the overall OS X system volume control in the top right menu bar still usable, or is it disabled?

It's usable - for the internal audio chip of the iMac. Not for the Babyface.

Actually, I just tested this and I found the overall OS X system volume control is still usable, but not as an independent gain - its value is synced to whatever the Main outs are assigned to in TotalMix, as in they both control the same thing. So changing one moves the other, and the hardware rotary control moves both.

Also as lemonstre pointed out, the volume +/- keys on the Mac keyboard can be used as well. They move both TotalMix Main out level and OS X system volume together. Nice!

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Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

The volume through my 600 ohm AKG K240DF phones is fine - the max volume is about the loudest I'd ever want to listen at anyway.

Thanks. This is an interesting information for many users with high ohm headphones.

Actually, I just tested this and I found the overall OS X system volume control is still usable, but not as an independent gain - its value is synced to whatever the Main outs are assigned to in TotalMix, as in they both control the same thing.

Have you tried it with assigning PH3/4 to the main out? If I remember correctly, the Mac volume control is linked to AN1/2 and works on this output even when another output is assigned to the main out.

best regards
Knut

  • Registered: 2011-05-30
  • Posts: 21

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

The AKG K240DF even at 600ohm are easy to drive but still any 600ohm headphone need a powerful headphone amp to drive them correctly. I would buy the babyface in a heartbeat if the headphone amp would be a high quality powerful one.. that could drive my next beyer dynamics t1 600 ohm headphones...

Who cares if you need to have the babyface wall plug when using high level headphone ouput mode..
I don't understand this design decision.. as well as the imposibility to truly bypass internal headphone amp

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Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

he AKG K240DF even at 600ohm are easy to drive but still any 600ohm headphone need a powerful headphone amp to drive them correctly.

Have you already tried it?

best regards
Knut

  • Registered: 2011-06-08
  • Posts: 38

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

Admin Knut wrote:

Have you tried it with assigning PH3/4 to the main out? If I remember correctly, the Mac volume control is linked to AN1/2

Sorry yes you're right - the OS X system volume is always linked to AN1/2, regardless the Main out is assigned to.

  • Registered: 2011-05-30
  • Posts: 21

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

Admin Knut: nope, but you should have tested it with all pro headphones!!

Why don't you give a list of all headphone that work or not perfectly with the internal headphone amp.
Did you really take the time to test it with high impedance phones??

I've read in a lot of headphone amp post that the AKG K240DF are easy to drive even if there spec is 600ohm. It's not like you can say that because you can drive them when at full power that you can drive other 600ohm headphones.. There's other spec like voltage swing/watt that you need to take in account.

It seams that these days the consumers have to be genius in figuring out the details that the manufacturers doesn't want to reveal and afterwards test every gears to see if it work together and loose precious time and money. Like always we are the beta testers of the industry. I understand when it's a small starting company but big company should do their own testing and clearly enumerate conflict that might occur with other gears.

  • Registered: 2011-05-30
  • Posts: 21

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

And please stop deleting my posts every time you feel that it's scratching your ego's as RME employees.

  • Knut
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Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

nope,

Please try it. I don't have the t1. But I can recommend very good low impedance headphones I use very often.

but you should have tested it with all pro headphones!!

Sorry, but we don't have all pro headphones and we don't get any headphones from other companies for tests. And of course we don't buy them. We publish the specs for the headphone output on the webpage and experiences with some headphones we own.

... and clearly enumerate conflict that might occur with other gears.

We always wrote that high impedance headphones could need a seperate headphone amp. But this depends on individual needs. Very difficult to test. If you want to use a special product outside the paper specs, please give it a try. Some users are satisfied with high impedance headphones, even when they are outside the paper "specs", some are not. We don't expect to buy the Babyface and use it with other gear outside the specifications. If somebody wants to choose a fitting interface to his high ohm headphones we have a lot of other high quality products with high impedance outputs.

And please stop deleting my posts every time you feel that it's scratching your ego's as RME employees.

I don't delete any post from you. Must be another admin. Probably it was not only scratching the RME ego.

best regards
Knut

  • Registered: 2011-05-30
  • Posts: 21

Re: Is the BabyFace right for me?

Still you could have like 5 headphones that are requiring different step of amplifications...

if you don't have any headphone how can you verify the synergy of the amp/dac with all pro headphones on the market hehe...

anyway