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RME User Forum → FireWire & USB series → Fireface driver for OSX Lion?
as Lion is expected pretty soon (maybe already next week) i'd like to ask if there will be soon a driver available, as latest driver behaves a bit strange in the latest developer preview of Lion - the audio just works sometimes
Yes, I hope the transition to Lion won't be as painful, for RME and for us, as the one we experienced with Snow Leopard.
Lion seems to be using the same Core Audio framework, we will probably be just fine with possible exception of small UI tweaks for apps like TotalMix.
The bigger pain will be w/ things like PT9... Avid are the ones you have to worry about when it comes to making you have to wait endlessly to upgrade your OS.
Lion seems to be using the same Core Audio framework, we will probably be just fine
no they are not unfortunately - in DP3 -wich i tried last - they were not really working - only in a few cases i was able to hear a proper sound (for instance with VLC playing back a movie)
also tried in DP4 now - intresting is that the audio only in VLC-player seems to work
I don't see what this discussion is good for - except for wasting time. If you are a developer (at this time Lion is only intended to be used by developers) then you should know that Apple is still working on it. And I am pretty sure the final version will just let you work on like before.
The golden master of Lion does no longer show some performance problems and errors that we saw earlier, so it seems Apple has fixed those.
Unfortunately they seem to have introduced a new bug: when changing the sample rate several things can happen:
- playback is garbled for several seconds
- the application hangs for several seconds
- a mixture of both
With programs like Logic, which needs several seconds to switch anyway, the error is not easily noticable. With iTunes it is.
This error also affects Apples own FireWire driver, so is not caused by our drivers. We have informed Apple and hope a fix will come soon.
This error is no showstopper, and if you switch sample rate not so often you most likely don't even notice it. Apart from this Lion seems to work ok with audio.
Personally I would not update my OS until this problem has been solved.
Thank you, this kind of information is especially useful for those who plan to buy the next-gen Apple computers with Lion pre-installed.
They should delay their purchase until compatibility issues are indeed resolved.
The golden master of Lion does no longer show some performance problems and errors that we saw earlier, so it seems Apple has fixed those.
Unfortunately they seem to have introduced a new bug: when changing the sample rate several things can happen:
- playback is garbled for several seconds
- the application hangs for several seconds
- a mixture of bothWith programs like Logic, which needs several seconds to switch anyway, the error is not easily noticable. With iTunes it is.
This error also affects Apples own FireWire driver, so is not caused by our drivers. We have informed Apple and hope a fix will come soon.
This error is no showstopper, and if you switch sample rate not so often you most likely don't even notice it. Apart from this Lion seems to work ok with audio.
Personally I would not update my OS until this problem has been solved.
tnx a lot im planning to update my system, so this infos are very useful...
m.
Lion is out.
Matthias, are this release and the golden master the sane?
Or is the bug fixed in this release of Lion?
The golden master and the final version from the app store are the same (md5sum and build number).
So the bug is still existing...
Anybody who wants to use Lion now should carefully check his used software before updating. An overview of incompatible soft- and hardware could be find here (in german): http://www.heise.de/mac-and-i/meldung/S … 83034.html
Not compatible or waiting for approval:
- Pro Tools
- Steinberg
- Ableton
- Universal Audio Plugins
- Digital Performer
- ReCycle
best regards
Knut
Steinberg updated their compatibility list today. Cubase 6 is now Lion compatible.
hi, i did the upgrade to lion yesterday. i am running cubase 6 and a fireface ufx, connected through firewire to a 2010 imac.
since i did the upgrade i keep getting audio-buzzes, at unpredictable intervals. cubase does not report dropped audio tough. overall cpu load is arond 30%.
clearly there is an issue somwehere.
i don't switch sample rates. everything 48k.
any ideas?
cheers, rup
tried all possible setups. running the UFX through USB instead of FW for example. interesting enough on one of the 2 Busses Lion doesn't even recoginze the UFX. Anyway: the problem stays and is clearly associated with Lion.
Any help would be highly appreciated.
Rup
I don't think there will be an immediate solution before our developers come back from holidays... Please have a little patience.
Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
Even then the clear advice at this time is to use a version below 10.7.
thanks. got that point. unfortunately I only discovered this thread AFTER upgrading to lion. and going back is not that easy with OSX.
Guess I'll bootcamp my macs and install W7 in the meantime.
I am not convinced that the problem is with Lion btw. I tried a cheap Tascam USB interface. No problem.
cheers, rup
The answer is "when we have officially released drivers for 10.7".
Until then, we advise customers to wait with the update, which will also not serve any purpose in a production environment, given that many of the major DAWs are not yet ready, either.
Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
thanks. got that point. unfortunately I only discovered this thread AFTER upgrading to lion. and going back is not that easy with OSX.
Guess I'll bootcamp my macs and install W7 in the meantime.
I am not convinced that the problem is with Lion btw. I tried a cheap Tascam USB interface. No problem.
cheers, rup
Why on earth would anyone upgrade to a brand new OS without making a clone of their current system first - especially considering what else may not work with the Emperor's new clothes & also considering a 1TB USB drive costs about the same as a hotdog these days..
Ah......I know who.......the exact same sort of person who neither uses their RME products to make a living and/or understands the amount of work required to bring a piece of hardware up to "approved" status with a new OS that Apple may not have even finished themselves yet..
Seriously give these guys a break - M-Audio (clearly not on a par with RME but they are part of AVID) last released drivers for their interfaces in the stone-age and AVID themselves are always one of the last companies to approve their gear on new OS versions.........but hey ProToys is clearly rubbish for novices right?
DeadHorse
I don't blame "Oh cool. Let's try, and see what happens" mentality because I was the same when I was young. After several decades of hard lessons, I upgrade OS only after SP1 is released (talking about Windows). I skpped Win Vista totally. There are benefits of these early adopters (or guinea pig, you may say), because they actually press on, and roll out bugs. The decision is whether you want to join that party or sit back and just watch how people struggle.
Gentlemen. I have been using RME Fireface devices for quite sometime and thank god you purchase an RME product. How many interfaces have been purchased and discontinued with no drivers available for any OS? The always support us so with all due respect.....Stop Whining!!
to drainaudio: I don't accept your unfounded criticism. I am using RME products (for a living btw) since some 8 years now. This is the first time they failed with a driver. Which is the reason why I switched to RME some time ago in the first place.
And giving this guys a break is definitely not what I will do. I paid more for the UFX then I paid for the iMac. It's their job to make it work. And if they are on vacation while a major OS release happens then I call this really bad planning.
Lion also is NOT a brand new OS, but just 10.7.
So unless you have anything of value to say please stuff your comments. It's bad enough to use Windows again.
No pros ever upgrade their OS until all of the products are supported.
Digital Performer got there update done yesterday.
Protools 9 still no update.
Logic has some issues but can be used with only certain plugins.
Waves plugins still no update.
When all is said and done what is the feature of Lion that you really need? Nothing. Not a thing. I will not upgrade untll all of my applications support Lion which they DO NOT. There is your value statement.
Lion also is NOT a brand new OS, but just 10.7.
I'm not a Mac user (any more), but from what I've heard, Lion removed the Rosetta which translates instruction sets for PowerPC CPU to Intel CPU at the kernel level. Because RME still support a lot of FW devices connected to PowerPC CPU, I would anticipate their drivers contain some components that are dependent on Rosetta. They would either divide the driver lines for new devices and old devices, but the loss of Rosetta would definitely make it difficult to make "universal FW driver". From the driver stability point, Rosetta issue is bigger than changes in user interface. From that reason, if I'm a Mac user, I will be really be careful about the upgrade.
Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) Compatibility Information – Updated July 25, 2011
Apple has now released the latest version of Mac OS X Operating System, Version 10.7 (aka Lion). We recommend not installing operating system updates until a driver has been posted for that specific operating system.
Note: Pro Tools 9, Pro Tools MP9, and Torq 2.0 are not qualified for use with 10.7 at this time
I paid more for the UFX then I paid for the iMac. It's their job to make it work.
You had a working system. You ran the upgrade without finding out first whether there are any potential issues. While the situation is unfortunate for you, it is in no way related to the price you pad for the hardware.
And if they are on vacation while a major OS release happens then I call this really bad planning.
HeadScratch
Lion also is NOT a brand new OS, but just 10.7.
Then why are so many hardware and software products not yet ready for it?
So unless you have anything of value to say please stuff your comments.
Please refrain from personal attacks on the forum.
Regards,
Daniel Fuchs
RME
to drainaudio: I am using RME products (for a living btw) since some 8 years now.
With all due respect if that is indeed the truth (& music provides you with a full-time income.....above the poverty line) then you should know better.....incidentally I'd be very interested to know what amazing new features of Lion are going to increase your workflow so dramatically that you need to have it hot off the shelf vs. using a stable working system??
You're stance of "I paid for it ------- I want to use Lion -------- RME should make it work now" simply doesn't add up if you are a professional......sorry.....them's the facts..
I want to apologize if I offended somebody. This was not my intention. But I just don't appreciate being attacked.
And yes, I want and will use Lion.
I have a working system now, bootcamp with Win7. Took me about 3 hours to setup. I take the situation very pragmatically. I can live with this setup for a couple of weeks. If RME/Apple don't make it work during this period I'll switch to a working supplier. I ordered an Apogee for testing which will arrive on Monday.
If your main personal priority is to use Lion as soon as possible, then that may be what will be required for that purpose, even though not all Apogee devices fully support Lion yet, either.
Please understand that it is not our main priority to be ready precisely on day one. The fact that many DAW programs aren't there yet is not an excuse, but does show that things are not urgent in professional environments.
Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
This is a zdnet link discussing the Adobe,Microsoft and countless other incompatibilities of Third party software and Lion. Adobe reader does not even work properly. Just read the article from ZDNET. This should dissuade anybody form upgrading to Lion in the near future. THis is a major release with several bugs. So do it if you must..........
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/lion-wh … rade/10627
Adobe releases long list of Lion, Safari compatibility issues
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/adobe-r … sues/10732
I realize these are not audio issues but it is important to understand that this upgrade is causing severe pain to all third party software companies and we are looking at at least 3-6 months for a total repair and true compatibility with ALL features of LION. Some developers are discovering new API's under the hood. Relax. Record. As you were.
Echoing other's wise comments: If you need your system to work flawlessly - it is common sense to wait before performing an OS Update. Do your legwork, and ONLY upgrade when you know the waters are calm. Otherwise the risks you take by installing a brand-new OS (literally just weeks old at this point) are your own IMNSHO. I stuck with XP for a good year before I even bothered looking into W7, and I didn't have a single issue when I switched. Never missed a beat. Same with upgrading DAW Software - NEVER perform a software upgrade w/o confirming what issues currently exist and if you can work within the existing issues - or better - wait until all is settled.
Live and learn. I was at a similar place when I was younger - we all wise up as we get older and "burn ourselves" in the process. We're just trying to accelerate this process for you - but sometimes touching the hot stove yourself is the only road to personal wisdom ;-) Bleeding Edge has a place, and a reliable production environment (or even a semi-pro bedroom studio) is absolutely positively NOT one of them. That "ball" and any resultant broken glass falls directly in your court.
Dual-Boot, or dedicate a beta/test machine for such tasks - or be prepared to run into issues like these. Dem's da breaks...
So you have an audio interface that works, but the software of your choice does not... What would you do? Regardlesse of whether you consider yourself professional, most of those who do would prefer a working system to a "day one" up-to-date one... We try to provide the former.
Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
Before ending this conversation, which leads nowhere, let me remind you that your products are made and sold to work with 'the software of my choice'.
There is more to it than just the interaction between these two. Both need working surroundings, i.e. an operating system to run on. At this point, 10.7 apparently has some clear difficulties. We can not possibly guarantee that an RME interface will "work with DAW XYZ" without taking the system surroundings into account. Doing so would be irresponsible. So let's say our products are made and sold to work in known compatible and officially supported environments. As far as the OS is concerned, that will be the case when we have updated drivers and cleared them for this system.
About professionalism, I make (all) my living playing and composing music, like, I guess, most people here.
Then I would really like to know why a "day one" Lion system seems more important to you than a reliably working setup on 10.6 or so. Most other customers (among those who have contributetd here) clearly have other priorities.
Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
None of the Protools software is ready . Digital Performer from Motu is now ready but wasn't. Not all of Motu's products are totally Lion compatible and almost no plugins work properly no matter what you use. What is the Software you are using to record? There is an old saying "Just because you can does not mean you should" We are not trying to be snobs on this forum. We are trying to state the facts from our years of experience. Those of us that use Apple software and hardware know that Apple does not play fair with new OS's. On one of my machines Has Quicken Izotope RX Steinberg, Logic Protools Digital performer Office for Mac,Adobe 5.5 suite
Digital Performer is the only one that is compatible. I could understand the frustration of someone that just bought a new machine and an RME device but I can assure you over the years RME has been constantly upgrading their drivers. That is why they are at the top of the pack.
Well done robcog...
Seriously guys... so-called "professionnals" would have used their brains a little bit, I mean... if you make all your living playing and composing music, are you d*** enough to take the risk of f**** up a stable system that works just fine, just to absolutely have the last thing ??? Don't you think it's stupid to act that way, and even more stupid to come here and talk sh** about these guys just because you don't have what you want ???
Nothing gives you the right to be that disrespectful. As it's been said, RME can't be blamed for anything since they've been / are remarkably efficient when it comes to drivers an updates among the others.
To add to Jesav's comment about "remarkably efficient" when it comes to driver updates. So true -- I bought my FF800 (which I absolutely LOVE, by the way) this past December and I've seen FOUR (count-them: 1-2-3-4) driver updates for this device since I've had it. All updates were quick, solid, and (the part I love) frequent. No doubt RME are actively working with Apple and testing/compiling Alpha drivers to test AS WE SPEAK. Most companies, when they are nose-down writing code, don't discuss it (for example Avid made a statement about PT Lion compatibility, but haven't said a thing about PT 9.0.5 Beta yet, likely already in testing) --- so you have to go on track-record: and RME's track-record is just awesome in this regard.
No doubt, somewhere in the coming weeks we'll get a driver. And over the coming weeks/months, one-by-one, every DAW will support 10.7.x, while also maintaining compatibility with at least 10.6.8. It's a foregone conclusion, and the early-adopter "professionals" just need to be patient. Since System 7, Mac OS9, etc...no matter how structured an OS beta program was hardware manufacturers were RARELY ready DAY ONE
RME and Apogee and everybody else want to know their product will work on those shiny new Macs -- and they will soon, no worries. And, unlike Apogee, RME has more Operating Systems to support in at least 4 different OS variants (10.6.x, 10.7.x, WinXP, and 7 -- I'm leaving out Vista & OSX 10.5.x here)
You know...you folks buying new Macs certainly should have an disk clone backup or DVD media of SL sitting around. All Mac users can still play with Lion as another boot partition while also keeping your 10.6.x OS available for production work (Super Duper or Carbon Copy Cloner, anyone??). There's just isn't much weight to this lost revenue argument, when there's all kinds of backups and nets a good professional can employ to both see Lion AND keep on working in 10.6.x while the industry adjusts to Lion.
Wow, lots of f*** and sh** !
Hope I can still express my point of view without having to read your cr**
First of all, you could learn to behave a bit beter on this forum, if you wish to keep your account active. Please edit your posting, else I will do so...
Just one question, what about musicians who just bought (or want to buy) a new Mac that's sold with Lion ?
If they are wise, they will ask or read about the current situation before purchasing and postpone - or install 10.6...
Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
...
Just one question, what about musicians who just bought (or want to buy) a new Mac that's sold with Lion ?That's how it's supposed to work : companies receive pre-versions of the OS, test it to try to be ready on day one. It works for some not for all.
...And yeah I'm so d*** that I totally stopped working because RME 's not ready for Lion. So I wait, doing nothing… Seriously, that kind of discussion is about principles.
Yes, what about a musician who just bought or wants to buy a new Mac? Are you saying they are going to rely on a brand new machine, untested, with a brand new OS in order to write music, and that this person has no other choices?
Nonsense! How does this imaginary buyer know that his DAW will work flawlessly?
Imagine I'm going to buy a brand new Porsche on Friday and race in a Grand Prix on Saturday. With no test drive! Cmon, get real.
Imagine I'm going to buy a brand new Porsche on Friday and race in a Grand Prix on Saturday. With no test drive! Cmon, get real.
Need a navigator for that? - sounds fun 
I'm in!!
Apogee Symphony works flawlessly with Lion.
I am sure at some point the FF UFX will too. Until that point I use it for live recording only (the USB feature is REALLY useful).
I'm very sorry, but please note that I was just answering jesav who used a lot of these words in reaction to one of my posts. Of course I didn't start that, not my style at all. Or am I the only one deserving a warning?
No - granted...
But there is something I got very clearly now : I won't discuss RME 's strategy anymore, too risky.
There isn't really a "strategy" here... We will have drivers in due course...
Time to close the thread, maybe. I think all points have been made.
Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME
RME User Forum → FireWire & USB series → Fireface driver for OSX Lion?
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