Thanks. Matthias. I look forward to eventually being able to turn off some channels.  Ideally, we could also reorder the channels as well.

I am interested in using control changes to select submixes, but I am confused how to do this since it seems 1) I need to use Mackie Mode to control the UFX and 2) in Mackie mode, I can't edit the BCF encoders to send control changes.  Am I missing something?

The UFX has the potential to be a very powerful mixer for live use.  It is perfectly set up for feeding IEM systems, which more and more bands and live sound engineers are starting to use.  I hope RME sees this potential and takes steps to make it easier for more UFX features to be easily controlled via various midi controllers.  I have seen a large number of questions and requests about this general topic.  Total Mix is already amazing!  It just needs to be controlled more easily via midi to open up a large new market.

Matthias,

I am trying to figure this out, and fully admit I don't have all the answers.  From what I have read on this forum and in the manual, I thought Mackie mode was the preferred way to control the UFX.  If that is incorrect, as your message suggests, I would appreciate you informing me of other options.  Just suggesting my previous statement was wrong is not particularly helpful.

Thanks,

David

Hi David!

From my experience, if you want the BCF2000 to work well - with the faders responding to tmfx, - you should try to keep the controller in mackie control emulation mode. (not editable)
If you need to edit the mackie control commands you can do that with LcXmu (LC Xmu costs US $50.00)
It allows you to use multiple controllers (or just one) to emulate a real mackie controller and you can freely assign the buttons and faders.
Of course you're still limited to what the mackie control protocol can do with Total Mix. So no fader skipping(/disabling). At least not until RME comes up with a solution to organize or choose your controlled channels somehow. :-)

But for now.. (only if you want to go this far)

LcXmu also allows you to bypass any midi commands coming from your controller. (The BCF2000 still sends some type of midi commands even when in mackie emulation mode) and if you want, you could use Bome's Midi Translator  (59 Euros / approx. US$ 85 + conversion fee) to change the midi commands sent from BCF2000 to ones that control a specific fader or button in TMFX. (Direct output bus selection via midi etc.) Of course this costs a little extra, but for me this has been the only way to achieve my goal. Also it's always nice to support small companies that make good software.

For this to work, you have to make virtual midi ports and route both -  midi coming from LcXmu, and midi coming from Bome's MT - to the same virtual midi output (You can do this with Midi Patchbay - This one is free.) and choose it as the controller input in TotalMix preferences. Also you have to do the same to the midi coming out from TMFX to LcXmu, to get the feedback working.

---------------------
Best possible way is to use two (or more) controllers with LcXmu. I've got the BCF2000 (in mackie mode), and BCR2000 in basic midi mode. LcXmu provides a sysex file for the BCR that works very well. You get the led feedback for mackie controlled parameters. (for standard midi commands - bypassing LcXmu straight to TMFX -  the feedback naturally doesn't work.) You can also edit the BCR to send commands understood by TotalMix. Simply bypass them in LcXmu and route to the virtual port needed.

And to ease your work there's of course the MIDI Monitor (free also)
With this you can check what midi commands your controller sends..

-----------------------------------------

Something I've done with this setup:
(My setup only uses 8 stereo input channels (small mixes actually) that I've organized by routing thru adats. So I never have to move the channels left or right or between rows.)

-BCF controls 8 channels in mackie mode. Pans, volume, mute etc.. all feedback also goes to BCR at the same time if something is mapped to both.
-3 buttons in BCF change to submixes with effects. (two with mackie commands and one with basic midi -> changed the command with Bome's)
-one button triggers the trim mode for controlling volumes.
-I also got the "mackie arrow buttons", but I've reorganized them a little differently with LcXmu.

In BCR2000:
-One Row Controls volumes when trim mode on.
-One row controls reverb sends, and when I touch a knob, it simultaneously switches to the submix with reverb send levels. -> This was done with Bome's as well.
-One row controls delay and fx sends levels the same way as with reverb.
-4 buttons select sub mixes and trim mode the same way as with BCF.
-Of course the BCF faders also move when I use the BCR to control levels.

The only bad thing is that I get the same feedback to all - volume, reverb, and effects rows in BCR - This is because they all are controlled with the 8 available mackie channels and only the submix changes. If it would be possible to use midi to control faders in submixes that aren't currently selected, the setup would be a lot better. I wouldn't even need the feedback for effects if they didn't change with submixes.

Everything works very smoothly with my setup. No problems with midi panics or anything. And I've had this setup running for a couple of months now. But if you go for it, do it on your own risk. I just wanted to give some ideas and say what can be done if needed.

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Some of the available midi commands of TMFX in a basic format: (To me the hex commands were a little confusing at first.) HeadScratch

Row 1 Faders: (value 0-127)

AN 7-8 = ch1, cc 109

Mic 10 = ch 1 cc 111
Mic 11 = ch 1 cc 112
Mic 12 =ch 1 cc 113

AES EBU = ch1, cc 114 (B0 72 pp)

Row 2 Faders:
ADAT 13/14 = ch 6 cc 112-113
ADAT 15/16 = ch 6 cc 114

Output Bus Faders (0-127)

AN 1-2 = ch 9 cc 103
AN 3-4 = ch 9 cc 105

ADAT 3-4 = ch 10 cc 103
ADAT 5-6 = ch 10 cc 105
ADAT 7-8 = ch 10 cc 107  0-127

Phones 1 = ch 9 cc 110
Phones 2 = ch 9 cc 112

SELECT OUTPUT BUS:

AES = ch13 cc116 val 0-127

ADAT 1-2 = ch14 cc 102 val 0-127
ADAT 3-4 = ch14 cc 104 val 0-127
ADAT 5-6 = ch14 cc 106 val 0-127
ADAT 7-8 = ch14 cc 108 val 0-127
ADAT 9-10 = ch14 cc 110 val 0-127
ADAT11-12 = ch14 cc 112 val 0-127
ADAT 13-14 = ch14 cc 114 val 0-127 
ADAT 15-16 = ch14 cc 116 val 0-127 

PH9/10 = ch13 cc112 val 0-127
PH11-12 = ch13 cc114 val 0-127

trim gains = ch 13 cc102  (BC 66 00)

Haha! True that indeed.   :-)

Bsfreq,

Thank you for the *very*through description of possible work-arounds!  I have to say, though, that all of these options seem pretty overwhelming.  Seems like a lot of time and effort just to learn how to set this all up.  I like the concept of using LcXmu to run an editable version of the Mackie control emulation.  Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be set up for the BCF2000 (which I use), just the BCR2000.

While I appreciate Matthias' observation that Mackie emulation is just recommended, not required, to run the UFX, I have had no luck using the BCF2000 with anything other than Mackie mode.  I am sure someone smarter than I could program the unit in its native mode, but I have no interest wrestling with this as I would rather focus on music.  Hopefully some combination of RME, a third party developer, and generous users can come up with an elegant solution to help guys like me who just want to easily use a midi controller and make a few edits to encoders to control the UFX the way that makes the most sense for their particular situation.

I really do appreciate the info.  Thanks again.

David

Unless I am missing something, this is exactly how the BCF2000 works in Mackie mode without using the LcMxu, and is the issue I am trying to get around.  I can already select submixes directly from the inout row, I just can't select submixes on a different page without using the arrow buttons to switch between pages.

Bsfreq,

Thanks for the additional info and your overall helpful attitude.  Unfortunately, I don't think the virtual patchbay idea will work as my goal is to use the UFX in standalone mode (i.e., no computer) with a midi controller for live mixing.  If I have a computer connected, the easier thing to do is just open TM and click with a mouse.

Seems like for now I just need to work with the BCF2000 in Mackie mode and accept its limitations.

Cheers,

David

Good idea. I will think about that.  Carrying around and hooking up another piece of gear is not my preference, but it may still be worth it.

Yes, exactly.

No, not at all.

Bome's midi translator

Actually you don't have to zero each rotary separately. The rotary positions are saved with the presets in BCR. (you can store up to 32 different presets, each one having different settings and knob positions) and in TMFX simply save one workspace (or snapshot) for each BCR preset that have the same fader positions. Then just load your TMFX workspace and BCR preset, and you're ready to start tweaking.

The BCR also remembers the knob positions when flipping through presets as long as you don't turn off the power. So you can easily control something from another preset in BCR and return back without messing up the positions.

The led ring behaviour is controlled by the BCR - independent from totalmix - so yes, You can set each rotary knob to either show or hide the led ring. (actually there are multiple led ring modes available, also for pan type control etc.)

No, you probably won't need LcXmu for your setup. I need the feedback because I'm using two controllers while playing live, and some of the knobs are doing the same thing on both of them. Without feedback, tweaking something on one controller would loose sync on the other, and I can't have this..

Happy to help. :-)