Do you want Windows or mac in the end?
RME uses their own usb chip just as with firewire (and even PCI(e)), that´s why they are better with performance.

Thanks for your replies.

To vinark,

I could care less about the platform, so long as it works. I've been using Windows for as long as I can remember. I thought I had hardware compatibility issues and convinced myself a Mac would fix them. The iMac actually performed worse than my 4-year old PC...

To Admin Knut,

I've already read your USB statement, but I don't think I have an incompatible system. My PC is an AMD64 with an SB700 chipset, while my iMac is a 2,93GHz Core 2 Duo system using the nVidia MCP79 chipset (NOT the Intel chipset you warn about). In your USB statement, you have listed Mac OS X as the preferred system for audio production, however my recent experience shows otherwise. My EMU 0404 USB performed worse on Mac OS 10.6-10.7.2 than on Windows XP-7. On Windows I got occasional crackles and badly timed recordings (probably due to poorly reported latency from the driver), whereas on Mac OS X I got pops across all buffer settings (from 14 to 1024), but most importantly, the crackles got recorded into the media items -- something which never happened to me on Windows! EDIT: I've just replicated crackles in recorded items on Windows too, so the interface can actually ruin recordings on both platforms.

Granted, all of this might be due to bad drivers from EMU. I can't blame the computers themselves, because I experience instability on both platforms. It's odd however that a superior Macintosh performs worse. Hope it's a software issue. EDIT: I've just replicated crackles in recorded items on Windows too, so the interface can actually ruin recordings on both platforms.

I have already tried all possible USB ports on my systems. Heck, I even tried the interface through a new USB-PCI card, but nothing really stopped the dropouts. The EMU performs really strange under Windows. Whereas I can spot crackles in recordings on the Mac quite quickly, the card performs well under Windows for a certain period of time, then it starts dropping buffers like crazy until the signal totally disappears. This odd behavior tends to happen more often with lower buffer size, while on the Mac any buffer size will produce occasional pops. What mostly pisses me off on Windows is the bad timing of my MIDI recordings. They tend to be very jittery and are impossible to work with.

I haven't tried another cable, but I am skeptical it will change anything. I am using the original cable that came with the card, which looks quite solid and is advertised as built especially for this purpose. As a last resort, I will also try a new cable. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'd really appreciate it if you could elaborate on why specifically the Babyface performs better and what kind of system it should work best on. Have you tested the Babyface on iMacs?

Finally, regarding RME interfaces, what is the difference between Firewire and USB? Which interface do you expect to perform worse overall and which platform (Mac or PC) is more suitable for your products?

Just to get this out of the way: YES! My PC is optimized to the max. I've been tweaking PC's for more than 10 years now, and have implemented virtually all practical suggestions regarding latency from sites like SoundOnSound, Gearslutz, Avid, etc. Both my Windows and Mac machines are clean and fresh. No antiviruses, no background apps, no unnecessary services. Everything is set for maximum performance and the systems are otherwise flying. CPU's are mostly idle, no spikes, etc. DPC latency doesn't coincide with clicks, and is not an issue really.

Hope this answers your question.

Some info from RME support would be much appreciated.

I can say so much: The Babyface/UC work with low latencies on Macbook, iMacs and Windows laptops, using Windows and OS X. There is no disadvantage of using USB vs. Firewire, the underlying transport protocols work about the same (isochronous, small paket sizes, bandwidth reserved). So whatever keeps you from using your interface properly likely has to do with your specific setups unless your interface is faulty.

I think this is a misunderstanding. He don't has a Babyface yet, but another USB interface and wants to be convinced, why the Babyface would be a better solution.

The Babyface works perfectly with an iMac. I've used this combination a long time.

best regards
Knut

JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR: I am trying to convince myself to buy an RME USB interface, and that's why I am asking questions. I HAVEN'T tried RME yet.

To Timur Born and Admin Knut,

Guys, can you please demistify for me the differences between the Firewire and USB protocols when it comes to audio. I've read lots of conflicting information so far, and due to my experience with the EMU 0404 USB, I am sort of skeptical about USB. I've also come across statements however, that a Firewire interface might perform poorly on a non-TI chipset -- and my computers both don't have a Texas Instruments Firewire chip in them.

Why is it generally believed that Firewire is more suitable for audio, if USB can be well implemented (as it is hopefully the case with RME)? Are statements like "Firewire provides a more consistent stream of data and doesn't tax the CPU" actually true in practice?

Thank you!

P.S. And YES, apart from all the software optimizations and OS/driver updates, suggested on the Web, I have also tried: new USB-PCI card, all possible USB ports, using only the audio interface as an USB device, buying an C2D iMac, and as Admin Knut suggested: another cable. Nothing improved in terms audio performance. The computers are obviously not the problem, it's the interface hardware/software. That's why I am shopping for a new audio card!

^a.j.scott

I totally agree with you. Obviously, there is no other way than going cold turkey. Would have appreciated more information on why RME's products stand out other than that they "simply work", but thank you all for your replies.

OK, I'm sold!

Just want to know which edition to pick. I've read some comments from users that the Silver Edition has had problems with the dial knob? Has this issue been resolved?

I'd get the original blue, but the color doesn't fit my desktop environment very much. Are you aware of any issues with the Snow White Edition?

Finally, is it a problem if I use a USB keyboard/mouse and USB keyboard alongside the Babyface? Will performance suffer?

Thanks.

Two things:

USB overall does the same as Firewire, both have a minimum latency of 1 ms on Windows. CPU load differences on modern CPUs are practically non-existant.

I can run a Fireface UC plus concurrently accessed harddrive on the *same* USB hub while maintaining low latency audio performance. The RME USB driver reserves the bandwidth it needs on the USB bus, so that other devices have to cut back their performance in favor of the RME interface.

Well, the short version between Apple and Microsoft is the way the OS is programmed. Windows is an event-driven OS which means that all events needed to be handled are put into a queue, first one in - first one out. Other interrupts needed to run the OS  are a special kind of interrupt (probably won't explain this that good) and the trick is that the interrupt can and should be only 256 bytes or whatever for any one (meaning manufacturers of all hardware that use these interrupts have to really get their programming code together) or else all those type of interrupts suffer in the end with a bad one in there. No matter what is going on, not one of those interrupts can totally take over without allowing the others to function either (or the computer would not work - especially since the OS uses those also programed by microsoft to run the OS (and there are many functions in the OS that need to be done all the time).

Mac was more programmed that it was or seemed to be more dedicated especially in audio or anything like that allowing for total overall lower latency - thus the 14ms time needed, while Windows needed always more so the latency was always more.

I suggest you read up on each OS and why they work like they do on a Internet Search because to explain all the differences in the OS can not be done here. Now a Mac running Windows on it, may make the computer respond slower because it is Windows that is causing that, and not the real OS of the MAC which is not Windows.

ive been having the same pops and crackling....it jsut went away when i unplugged and pluged the usb reciever for my wirless keyboard/mouse.

no idea if that is why its working now

Hi, spacealf. Thanks for your detailed posts.

I guess you are referring to the Windows and Mac OS X's native audio drivers: DirectSound and CoreAudio respectively. However, it has long been the case that Windows' DirectSound has been deemed useless for real-time audio applications and has been replaced by the de facto standard ASIO driver. Therefore, any comparisons between audio engines should be drown between CoreAudio & ASIO and not CoreAudio & DirectSound.

I suggest you have a look at this article: http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-1.htm

Some tests have shown that ASIO makes fewer calls per buffer than CoreAudio and overall performs better than the Mac OS equivalent at the lowest buffer settings. There are lots of benchmarks documented showing Windows performing better than Mac OS X at the lowest latencies.

I have tried everything under the sun to make the EMU 0404 USB work as expected, but it's just impossible to do with the current state of their drivers. It has been the experience of many users that Creative's "Pro" interfaces are simply unstable. I have given up on mine already.

What I am more interested in is what platform I should choose for my new Babyface. Again, given the statements on RME's website, it's easy to assume that a Mac would work better with an RME USB interface. However, empirical proof on the web has shown Windows 7 to be the better performing DAW Host lately.

Will anyone kindly share why RME specifies Macs as more suitable for USB audio and how it tests the hardware?!

From my experience, if you do lots of FX and instruments, windows will perform better on equal hardware. IN other words lets you use more fx and instrument voices at lower latency`s.

The minimum latency on Windows is 1 ms, on OS X there is no such minimum (most software will limit you to 14 samples minimum, though). The way audio drivers are to be implemented on OS X (CoreAudio) and the way processes/threads are scheduled seems to come with some overhead that sees Windows often perform better. Another not so unimportant reason might be that many programs are originating from Windows and then ported to OS X. Logic still is kind of the (benchmark) reference on OS X.

But you are over-analyzing these things. OS is less important than getting modern hardware with good BIOS support. As always there are three options:

1) Get an PC from a dedicated audio PC builder.
2) Get a Mac that is successfully used by thousands of other musicians.
3) Get any PC and hope/try for the best.