1 Topic by Martin6 (edited by Martin6 2012-12-29 19:08:55)

  • Registered: 2009-08-25
  • Posts: 52

Topic: TMS (FF settings) is changing sound of Spdif-Input

In FF settings TMS is activated by default.

Now I´ve got a new Line6 Pod HD at the Spdif-input of my FF800. It sounds much thinner compared to using the analog inputs of the FF with the Pod.

After then I´ve deactivated TMS in the FF settings and now it sounds the same and as it should.
What is TMS ? For what purpose? Please give an example. Why is it activated by default and why do other audio interfaces (such as Roland Quad Capture) have not such a setting?

Isn´t it a bug that it changes the sound???

I used to play a Line6 Pod X3 through the Spdif-input of the FF before and TMS was activated all the time. I´ve tested it by recording: There is no or at least not such a big difference with TMS checked or unchecked compared to using the new Line6 Pod HD.
So this is very strange. Please help and explain! Thanks.

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: TMS (FF settings) is changing sound of Spdif-Input

Did you verify your observation by listening to the SPDIF input via TotalMix routing to the output and toggling the TMS setting in real-time? Doesn't read like that...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

3 Reply by Martin6 (edited by Martin6 2012-12-30 13:59:57)

  • Registered: 2009-08-25
  • Posts: 52

Re: TMS (FF settings) is changing sound of Spdif-Input

Yes, the sound changes by listening to the SPDIF input via TotalMix routing to the output and toggling the TMS setting in real-time.
Pod samplerates of 44.1 or 48 kHz make the most difference when toggling TMS. There is less difference using 96 kHz.
My driver version is 3.068 and the firmware is 2.77 and I´m on Windows7 64bit.

Once again my questions:
What is TMS ? For what purpose? Please give an example. Why is it activated by default and why don´t other audio interfaces have such a setting?

Thanks for your answer.

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  • Registered: 2007-04-10
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Re: TMS (FF settings) is changing sound of Spdif-Input

The TMS functionality does not have the slightest possible influence on the audio signal, and therefore there can be no change of "sound quality".
The option enables suitable applications (Sampitude, Wavelab) to read the track markers embedded in the SPDIF signal from CD players and DAT recorders, and to set markers in the audio project at the correct places.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

5 Reply by MC

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Re: TMS (FF settings) is changing sound of Spdif-Input

I wonder if you accidentally toggled Emphasis instead...I just did a 24 bit CRC test, and it passes no matter if TMS is on or off.

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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6 Reply by Martin6 (edited by Martin6 2013-01-04 12:17:55)

  • Registered: 2009-08-25
  • Posts: 52

Re: TMS (FF settings) is changing sound of Spdif-Input

Ok, after several tests I agree that TMS has no influence on the audio quality if a second interface (in my case a Roland Quad Capture) is playbacking CD-wav via SPDIF. A phase-test nulls 100%.

But not so with the Line6 Pod HD (desktop version)!!! I´ve uploaded two wav-bounces (with and without TMS) as an evidence (though a phase-test is of course impossible because of two guitar-takes).
There is less bottom-bass when listening to the file with TMS. The file without TMS sounds more authentically and in the end better though it differs just quite slightly.

I can assure you that there is no mistake I made doing my tests. I repeated and veryfied it a hundred times! And surely I did not toggle Emphasis instead...

Samplerate of Line6 Pod HD : 44.1 kHz (24 bit). I recorded the files with Cubase5 in a 44.1 kHz -project on a 64 bit windows7 system with native fireface ASIO.

And I recorded the Pod several times via my Roland Quad Capture interface (via SPDIF) with native Quad Capture ASIO. Like most other interfaces it has not such a setting like TMS as a SPDIF input option. And what shall I say?: the sound was excellent and as it should be: authentically like the ANALOG-Outs of Pod HD without any missing bass-bottom.

So for me this is clear: the TMS-setting of the fireface is definitely changing something with the sound of the Line6 Pod HD. Other sources set to the SPDIF input may be ok and correct.
I am a very audiophile person and I invited my band members to my studio and they agreed with me.
But listen to it by yourself (the bounces I uploaded):

http://rapidshare.com/files/3473609294/ … 0SPDIF.rar

7 Reply by MC

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Re: TMS (FF settings) is changing sound of Spdif-Input

We do not have such a POD, but you could do some more investigation by checking the Channel Status that the POD delivers at its SPDIF output. Check TMS then use DIGICheck's 'Channel Status Display' to see the info  (use F3 to set the card and inputs). A screenshot of that info either here or as email would be nice.

Also: are you still sure that the change in sound can be heard by just routing the SPDIF input via TotalMix to any output - that means NOT recording the signal via Cubase? I could imagine some strange interaction this way, but not when just working with hardware in to out.

BTW, the files that you uploaded sound (and look, when analyzed by Spectral Analyzer) absolutely identical.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2009-08-25
  • Posts: 52

Re: TMS (FF settings) is changing sound of Spdif-Input

Here the channel status images with TMS activated:

Line6 Pod HD

Roland QuadCapture

It seems that there is copy prohibited-information in the SPDIF-signal of the Pod...
Please report back. Thanks.

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Re: TMS (FF settings) is changing sound of Spdif-Input

It is possible that the Pod applies a copy-protected SCMS setting to SPDIF, but the FF800 ignores it and there is no influence on sound quality anyhow... Unless you can reproducibly demonstrate/illustrate the difference, I am not sure how we can help. I also agree with MC - no audible difference between the files you uploaded. Unfortunately, they do not match, so a null test is not possible.

Regards,
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website