1 (edited by Selva 2023-03-27 22:39:27)

Topic: UCX 2 Reverb noise

I found strange artifacts in the reverb work. It seems as if the gain level increases for the duration of the effect, which decreases again when the reverb tail ends. Also, a strange "jet" sound is added. I tried to record a sound through a loopback, according to the lesson from the official rme videos.  Example of recording added to google disk with link below.

Example recorded with the reverb "attack" type. Issue audible with all other types of reverb on different effect volume levels and different levels of Send FX fader.  On "space" type  of reverb i can`t hear this problem even  with effect volume of 6db.

Total mix fx version 1.79
Is dsp module in my unit broken?


https://drive.google.com/file/d/18f63ot … sp=sharing

2 (edited by oli77sch 2023-01-22 22:40:34)

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

waedi wrote:

The reverb and the echo effects of TotalmixFX are produced by your computer, not from the DSP of your interface.

No, this is only the case on Babyface pro (FS). The UCX II has enough DSP power for processing all the effects internally.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

My PC have enough power to process  heavy plugins. That's not a cause. in audio example just about 15% of dsp power used

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

Selva wrote:

My PC have enough power to process  heavy plugins. That's not a cause. in audio example just about 15% of dsp power used

Again: on the UCX II, the effects are processed on the internal DSP chip, so the PC's power is irrelevant.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

5 (edited by oli77sch 2023-01-23 09:45:18)

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

UPDATE / EDIT:
It was easy to reproduce the 'issue', although using a software electric piano instead of a real guitar and a Babyface pro instead of an UCX II. Reverb preset type 'attack' - higher values on most of the parameter knobs. It's simply the algorithm. As soon the volume (in the reverb section) is lowered (not higher than 0.0) it sounds ok.

ORIGINAL REPLY:
Some questions:
- do you also have dynamics activated?
- have you tried other sounds than guitar?
- is the issue independent of what instrument input you use?
- I’m not sure how exactly you did the recording: I guess instrument hardware input directly routed to a hardware output with loopback activated, then recorded the corresponding input?

Listening to your samples, I can hear the 'reverb jet' exactly reacting to what you play. It’s not like a distortion, let’s say caused through a hardware failure, sounding always the same (awful) way independent of the original sounds.

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

6 (edited by Selva 2023-03-05 22:17:13)

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

Sorry for the long wait.
I will try to make another sample

It should be noted that the example recording made above is a highly increased volume section where I extract the sound with rather weak dynamics to hear reverb tail. 

Regarding your questions:
The dynamics/eq section is off
I was testing reverb with a microphone on the microphone inputs. The same situation is seen on the microphone and instrument inputs.
I can hear this effect when just monitoring the channel through headphones with reverb  and ucx ii in standalone mode without PC.

The recording was made like this: The cable goes from the guitar to the rme instrument input, the send fx fader is raised on the input channel (e.g. Analog 3), than choose adat 1/2 channel and raise analog 3 channel fader for direct mon., and also raised the fader for Fx return on adat 1/2 channel + enable loopback.
—The DAW is recording signal from adat1/2 to track.

I don`t know why, but this type of monitoring sounds a little bit different than direct Analog 3 channel monitoring  , but I can assure you that I hear exactly the same jet sound and noise level raising  when directly monitoring any input channel through the headphones with reverb turned on

The reverb jet noise doesn't respond to what I'm playing or what happening in my room. it's a strange sound that appears when the reverb tail modulates - phrase or word just had to be long enough to hear it completely.

7 (edited by Selva 2023-03-05 20:24:13)

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

I made a better short audio with a microphone, where everything is explained in detail. I very much hope that this  can be fixed with software.  Also added settings screenshot. At 1:30 I turn off the reverb and you can clearly hear how much noise it adds.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … sp=sharing

8 (edited by Selva 2023-03-27 22:41:51)

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

May someone check reverb work on Babyface pro fs or ucx or other RME devices, please?
Any reverb type exсept "Space", any parameters,  better to rise up effect volume to 0 for better understanding where the artefact is.

Support tells it`s not high quality reverb and there is nothing to do with algorithms. But it`s not looks like just low quality it sounds good, but i can`t really hear  it work behind  noise that appears with enabling reverb in Total Mix. Noise that appears with reverb tail  audible even at - 10 effect volume. I can`t compare device with another one because they are out of stock in my country.

9

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

I will check that.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

10 (edited by Selva 2023-03-28 15:26:42)

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

Thank you
I made one more sample it s shorter and more clear if you need.
First dry DI signal, than i activate reverb button in Total Mix. Total Mix settings screenshot also avaible
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … share_link
LP guitar with humbuckers, fully shielded.

11

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

Quick question - is it intentional that this mp3 is mono? If the reverb adds artefacts then it would be much easier to be heard in stereo (fully left / right, with the guitar still in the middle).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

12 (edited by Selva 2023-03-30 18:15:39)

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

MC wrote:

Quick question - is it intentional that this mp3 is mono? If the reverb adds artefacts then it would be much easier to be heard in stereo (fully left / right, with the guitar still in the middle).

I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
Not intentionally. I just forgot to center the guitar when recording.   The previous microphone and guitar  test was done centered before recording. I put a stereo recording in studio one on the track anyway, to record the reverb as it comes from the total mix.
From what I hear on the last sample noise and artefacts are clearly audible,

upd
You`re right. Added stereo sample in mp3 and wav
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … share_link


Same reverb/channel settings as on screenshoot in folder. But i think it was more audible in previous sample.

13 (edited by ebmmbongo 2023-03-29 20:59:46)

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

Selva wrote:

May someone check reverb work on Babyface pro fs

Hi
I am not sure exactly what you are listening for, but as I wanted to test recrodning with loopback I did this for you. First there is a little played with reverb, then without (both loopback) and also there is a screen dump of my tmfx.
No idea if this is useful at all, but i learned something anyway:)
Guitar is HB bridge.
I am not a guitar player haha.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … share_link

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One

14 (edited by Selva 2023-03-30 20:06:07)

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

ebmmbongo wrote:
Selva wrote:

May someone check reverb work on Babyface pro fs

Hi
I am not sure exactly what you are listening for, but as I wanted to test recrodning with loopback I did this for you. First there is a little played with reverb, then without (both loopback) and also there is a screen dump of my tmfx.
No idea if this is useful at all, but i learned something anyway:)
Guitar is HB bridge.
I am not a guitar player haha.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … share_link

Thank you much for your time and test.

From what I hear, you have almost exactly the same situation - the addition of noise when the signal goes to the reverb bus.
So, this "hiss" that appears when you play notes and dissapears when you stop playing should not be present.  On my  Motu track 16 dsp reverb  It also have room reverb with few types of room. Just can`t find the way to record it as on rme to give an example what i am alking about. But i didn`t hear that kind of reverb work before on other devices.

Only the flanged artefact ( or idk how  to call it) is not really audible  in your example, maybe you just need to hold note a little longer

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

MC wrote:

I will check that.

Hello, Matthias.
Any news about it? Do you have the same reverb behaviour on your device?

16

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

We are still testing. Please give us a few more days to come to a verdict.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

17

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

We completed testing and found no issues. Means the UCX II reverb operates and sounds exactly like on all other devices, and as expected.

One crucial tip for you: according to your settings you use the reverb in a non optimal way. Instead of pulling the output up to 0 dB and then adjusting the input for the amount of reverb, do it the other way around. Give the reverb input the highest signal level and adjust the amount of reverb on the output channel. This way the reverb will sound cleaner.

Also you are right that Space has the most clean output. As you can adjust Space in mutliple ways you can easily make it match your current medium room settings, and use that one instead.

Please note that the TotalMix FX section's Reverb is a monitoring tool, which works very good for live and studio monitoring purposes (give the singer some room to feel good...etc). It is not intended to compete with high quality recording solutions that have a lot more DSP power available.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: UCX 2 Reverb noise

MC wrote:

We completed testing and found no issues. Means the UCX II reverb operates and sounds exactly like on all other devices, and as expected.

One crucial tip for you: according to your settings you use the reverb in a non optimal way. Instead of pulling the output up to 0 dB and then adjusting the input for the amount of reverb, do it the other way around. Give the reverb input the highest signal level and adjust the amount of reverb on the output channel. This way the reverb will sound cleaner.

Also you are right that Space has the most clean output. As you can adjust Space in mutliple ways you can easily make it match your current medium room settings, and use that one instead.

Please note that the TotalMix FX section's Reverb is a monitoring tool, which works very good for live and studio monitoring purposes (give the singer some room to feel good...etc). It is not intended to compete with high quality recording solutions that have a lot more DSP power available.

This is great advice! Thank you MC.  I use the Reverb on the UCX II as 'comfort reverb' to add some dimension via monitoring to my direct bass recording and noticed the reverb was kinda noisy, and I was guilty of doing what you're advising against.