1 Topic by tdc (edited by tdc 2021-03-06 09:04:59)

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Topic: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

[Update a few days later, read post #12 below]

So, after a few days of testing with a DigiFace AVB and two 12Mic units connected via a Presonus AVB Switch with both Reaper and MaxMSP, I decided to take the samplerate up from 48 to 96 in preparation for some orchestral sessions next week.

Using the RME Controller I first set the DF AVB to 96, then the two 12mics. The 12mics complained that they could longer see any valid input streams to clock from, it seems that changing the SR caused the stream types to change? I reset them to be the same as the DF AVB and sync was restored.

In Reaper, the DF-AVB was selected and caused long pauses in setting this as the audio device.When I tried to play or record, Reaper would not respond. I then tried creating a simple MaxMSP patch with a sinewave routed to the first AVB output. Max froze when I activated its audio engine. Both Reaper and Max needed to be force quit.

The two browser windows running the 12Mic web remotes were complaining of not seeing the 12mic units. Using the Terminal command dns-sd -B _http._tcp . showed no devices on network. 

I shutdown the Mac to restart it, but it got stuck just after the screen went blank. ( I could tell the state of Mac as the connected Mouse was still powered/ I waited for a few mins and then disconnected the USB-C cable connected to the DF-AVB. The Mac continued its shutdown process. (Having the DF-AVB seemed to be preventing the shutdown). Eventually I had to CMD-CTRL-POWER force powerdown the Mac.

Rebooting and repeating all the above steps, the exact same issue happened, except at the shutdown phase, after disconnecting the USB-C cable to the DF-AVB, the Mac had a Kernel Panic.

Not very comforting to say the least.

Reverting back to testing at 48k, the system has been up and running for 12hrs overnight recording in Reaper and is also now running an Aggregate Device with the DF-AVB and a UFX II as I need extra outputs for the sessions like Talk-to-stage and some live streaming feeds.

Looking in the Console.app reveals many lower level system crashes related to TotalMix and the netifc daemon. Have others managed to have successful implementations of higher samplerates with the DF-AVB?

Thanks, Tony


AVB System:
MacBook Pro - 2020 16" || Big Sur 11.0.1 || Apple USB-C - USB-A Dongle
RME DigiFace AVB: fw v219, d v3.19 || RME AVB Controller: 0.9541 (15) || 2 x 12Mic Units v1.3.0.(69)
Presonus SW5E AVB Switch || Cordial 50m Cat5e Reel || Cordial short Cat5e Patch cables

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Just a quick note regarding the headline - you are using macOS Big Sur 11.0.1. The released Digiface AVB driver is not yet compatible to Big Sur, but thank you for the feedback on testing the pre-release solution mentioned in the other post.

I can confirm that there are issues with 96k, also on Big Sur 11.2.1.

3 Reply by tdc (edited by tdc 2021-03-03 04:20:16)

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Thanks Max. Its good to know that this issue is known.

Can I ask that in the future you alert your users to these issues, I would rather have been told this ahead of wasting an an entire evening. We do read your release notes before installing.

I will grab another Laptop running Mojave and setup it up for testing.

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

As an update and confirmation, I have set up an older MBP 2016 with Mojave 10.14.6 and managed to get the DF-AVB, 12Mic's and UFX II all running at 96kHz in Aggregate mode.

Regards, Tony

5 Reply by mruebsamen (edited by mruebsamen 2021-03-03 23:26:49)

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Hi Tony,

2 days ago I tested the digiface AVB (after a longer installation procedure) at 96 kHz recording 32 tracks of audio on an M1 MacBook Air. It recorded without any errors for about 4 hours. Before I tried to record directly with avb via the Ethernet adapter. It took a while until everything was setup up... but with hive I was also able to record web
serveral sessions with 32 tracks and 96 kHz without any issues...

Best regards, Marcus

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

mruebsamen wrote:

Hi Tony,

2 days ago I tested the digiface AVB (after a longer installation procedure) at 96 kHz recording 32 tracks of audio on an M1 MacBook Air.

Hi Marcus, thats interesting, and mildly frustrating as my attempts at 96kHz with the Digiface AVB at 96kHz on were a complete fail here on a MBP 2020 16" MacOS 11. I am confused as I thought Max had said that it was not compatible ( maybe that means its working but not yet 100% reliable on all machines)

I have a couple of the new MBP M1 13" laptops around and will grab one and try and replicate your test. Which DAW were you using?

7 Reply by tdc (edited by tdc 2021-03-04 03:04:46)

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

So, I have taken your advice Marcus and got everything running on a MBP 13" M1 Laptop. And I can confirm the same results as you. Am able to record 32ch at 96kHz. I have only run the tests for an hour or so but it all feels stable.

I decided to try my luck and go up to 192kHz. All the AVB devices allowed me to do this, and TM showed input and allowed me to route it to other outputs, however Reaper would not show inputs, and the response to the drive was very sluggish.

Thanks for the tip!

UPDATE: Sadly I have run into the same Kernel Panic issues with the M1, which I can only suppose was due to me pushing up to 192kHz. But, I have reset everything to 96kHz and things seem fine again.

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Max wrote:

I can confirm that there are issues with 96k, also on Big Sur 11.2.1.

tdc wrote:

I am confused as I thought Max had said that it was not compatible

The issues that I ran into (on M1) were related to changing the sample rate while my Logic is running and the Digiface AVB attached. If I set the new sample rate of the Digiface AVB first, then open Logic with a project that has the corresponding sample rate (or a different audio interface selected), I did not run into issues and everything worked as expected.

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Hi tony,

Happy to hear that it worked at the and, too. I use Logic as a recording software, which brings me a little offtopic... I think we are in the same field of recording orchestras.  A year ago I noticed that logic produce some real big spikes on long recording regarding hd and cpu consumption. First it ihappens very rarely (like after 20 minutes) but after about 60 to 90 minutes it happens regularly and I start worrying about my recording :-( Lately I use wave tracks for recording, because I was too scared (even though we do a MADI based backuprecording on an iPad as well). Did you notice the same issues?
Coming back to the RME topics: I noticed that logic is kind of picky about the correct sample rate; and sometimes it doesN#t let you change the setting, when the sample rate from the AVB stream is set at a different sample rate than within logic. That‘s the reason why I always open logic by double clicking on an empty project with the correct sample rate. With Waves Tracks I didn‘t have any issues.
My experience with RME and avb (I guess it’s about all AVB implementations) is; once it works it‘s absolutely rock solid. But it takes quite some time and nerves to set it up...
Anyways I‘m really looking forward to avb. I think this is the future of large channel counts and / or distributed installations...

PS: What I don‘t understand: Why aren‘t there any devices on the market with a built in „mini switch“ to allow some kind of a daisychaining...

10 Reply by tdc

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Max wrote:

The issues that I ran into (on M1) were related to changing the sample rate while my Logic is running and the Digiface AVB attached.

Thanks Max, I will keep that in mind and do some tests to confirm.

11 Reply by tdc

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

mruebsamen wrote:

I use Logic as a recording software, which brings me a little offtopic... I think we are in the same field of recording orchestras.

Hi mruebsamen,

Yes, I do record orchestras among other things, and like you have always looked for a recording system that doesnt cause me any stress. Once youre in record there are plenty of things for you to be concerned about with the music/musicians, so having a dependable recording system and a dependable backup is crucial.

When recording large live shows, I typically use  some 128ch MADI based recorders. Pyramix, Pro Tools and Genex were common in the past, but then one day I discovered Reaper. For the last 10 years it has been my recorder of choice for live recording. These days I prefer to do all my post production and mixing in Pro Tools just because I have some Avid control surfaces so I have some templates to help move the recording sessions from Reaper to Tools.

As an aside, (Reaper is nuts! There are more preferences and menu options than any application I know. Its a nightmare to start learning, but I cant recommend it highly enough. Its a 17mb download!! Will run without software or hardware authorisation. Its generously priced. It has multiple scripting languages inside so you can easily build your own controller to make sessions run smoothly. ( I often take an Elgato StreamDeck to a session that is scripted to control TotalMix for Talkback to conductor etc as well as control CR monitors and add markers.)

Most importantly, Reaper is my dependable recording solution. On a live ballet recording a few years ago, I was in a broadcast truck using their infrastructure and had 2 x RME Digiface MADI boxes running in Aggregate Mode to capture 118 channels and was using Reaper as the Recorder on a MacBook Pro. I had a second laptop and pair of DF MADI's running as backup. Near the end of the performance, the Truck Tech accidentally bumped the main recorder whilst moving his bag and pulled one of the USB MADI cables out of the MacBook. Reaper kept recording! it complained that it may have lost some audio signal but kept recording all 118 channels... I plugged the USB cable back in and TotalMix and the RME Fireface app loaded again, Reaper was still recording and we were all back to normal.

That blew my mind and showed what great software and hardware can do!

mruebsamen wrote:

My experience with RME and avb (I guess it’s about all AVB implementations) is; once it works it‘s absolutely rock solid. But it takes quite some time and nerves to set it up...
Anyways I‘m really looking forward to avb. I think this is the future of large channel counts and / or distributed installations...

The 12Mic's sound great from the tests here in the studio and I am looking forward to getting them on stage on Monday. I cant wait to remove the 100's of metres of analogue multicore, and all the cross patching that is required on busy sessions. I see the efforts required in getting this AVB system running smoothly for my needs as time well invested.

mruebsamen wrote:

PS: What I don‘t understand: Why aren‘t there any devices on the market with a built in „mini switch“ to allow some kind of a daisychaining...

I would really like to hear from the RME folks about this? I would have bought an ABV Tool device right away if it had a couple of Ethernet ports on it, I may in the future but for now I had to buya Presonus AVB Switch. My RME Digiface Dante device has multiple Dante ports and is so handy, but the Digiface AVB only one.

12 Reply by tdc

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

I am pleased to say that the issue I originally reported of kernel panics when trying to run at 96kHz has been somewhat resolved thanks to Max and Marc at RME.

The issues I was having were due to the way MacOS CoreAudio handles clock in relation to Network based audio. I was trying to change the samplerate of the AVB network and devices whilst CoreAudio was still accessing them. After a fresh reboot, and making sure that I had no applications using the AVB Audio devices ( ie quitting Reaper ), I could then change the samplerate via the AVB Controller App. Whilst this is mildly annoying, its still much faster than the 15mins it used to take to change samplerates on a Euphonix S5. 

Hopefully in the future there can be some safeguards in place to prevent things like kernel panics if you forget to close an app before changing the networks samplerate, but for now all my tests on a number of machines are working well and are very stable.

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

tdc wrote:
mruebsamen wrote:

I use Logic as a recording software, which brings me a little offtopic... I think we are in the same field of recording orchestras.

Hi mruebsamen,

Yes, I do record orchestras among other things, and like you have always looked for a recording system that doesnt cause me any stress. Once youre in record there are plenty of things for you to be concerned about with the music/musicians, so having a dependable recording system and a dependable backup is crucial.

When recording large live shows, I typically use  some 128ch MADI based recorders. Pyramix, Pro Tools and Genex were common in the past, but then one day I discovered Reaper. For the last 10 years it has been my recorder of choice for live recording. These days I prefer to do all my post production and mixing in Pro Tools just because I have some Avid control surfaces so I have some templates to help move the recording sessions from Reaper to Tools.

As an aside, (Reaper is nuts! There are more preferences and menu options than any application I know. Its a nightmare to start learning, but I cant recommend it highly enough. Its a 17mb download!! Will run without software or hardware authorisation. Its generously priced. It has multiple scripting languages inside so you can easily build your own controller to make sessions run smoothly. ( I often take an Elgato StreamDeck to a session that is scripted to control TotalMix for Talkback to conductor etc as well as control CR monitors and add markers.)

Most importantly, Reaper is my dependable recording solution. On a live ballet recording a few years ago, I was in a broadcast truck using their infrastructure and had 2 x RME Digiface MADI boxes running in Aggregate Mode to capture 118 channels and was using Reaper as the Recorder on a MacBook Pro. I had a second laptop and pair of DF MADI's running as backup. Near the end of the performance, the Truck Tech accidentally bumped the main recorder whilst moving his bag and pulled one of the USB MADI cables out of the MacBook. Reaper kept recording! it complained that it may have lost some audio signal but kept recording all 118 channels... I plugged the USB cable back in and TotalMix and the RME Fireface app loaded again, Reaper was still recording and we were all back to normal.

That blew my mind and showed what great software and hardware can do!

mruebsamen wrote:

My experience with RME and avb (I guess it’s about all AVB implementations) is; once it works it‘s absolutely rock solid. But it takes quite some time and nerves to set it up...
Anyways I‘m really looking forward to avb. I think this is the future of large channel counts and / or distributed installations...

The 12Mic's sound great from the tests here in the studio and I am looking forward to getting them on stage on Monday. I cant wait to remove the 100's of metres of analogue multicore, and all the cross patching that is required on busy sessions. I see the efforts required in getting this AVB system running smoothly for my needs as time well invested.

mruebsamen wrote:

PS: What I don‘t understand: Why aren‘t there any devices on the market with a built in „mini switch“ to allow some kind of a daisychaining...

I would really like to hear from the RME folks about this? I would have bought an ABV Tool device right away if it had a couple of Ethernet ports on it, I may in the future but for now I had to buya Presonus AVB Switch. My RME Digiface Dante device has multiple Dante ports and is so handy, but the Digiface AVB only one.

Just to come back to reaper.... I guess I'm too simple minded :-/
I get audio via AVB direct and through Digiface into Logic. However, I don't get any audio inside Reaper :-((( I select digiface in preferences audio /devices, make sure that sample rate is 96 kHz, go to the main window and select a track and assign a proper channel. But no audio :-( Am I missing something?

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Did you click the red R button on that track ?
The track (same in Logic) must get sharp, activated for recording to be able for receiving audio signal.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Yepp, I did --> no audio :-(

16 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2021-03-06 23:32:23)

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

And in the same time you can have Logic open and there audio is avilable for recording ?
Then inside Reaper the audio device is not selected right way.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

17 Reply by mruebsamen (edited by mruebsamen 2021-03-06 23:36:02)

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Logic works perfectly...
I don't see any mistakes in the device configuration.... Even if I choose the MacBooks Mic, I can't see any input...
btw; thank you for helping...

18 Reply by tdc

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

:-) Reaper is a mind-#$*&

Is this install of Reaper a new one? Up until a year or so ago, they had the monitoring set to off as a default....

One thing I have found with the Reaper and AVB, is to ensure you turn off the Sample Rate in the Project Settings, as well as the SampleRate settings in the Audio Driver page.

19 Reply by MC

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

mruebsamen wrote:

Logic works perfectly...
I don't see any mistakes in the device configuration.... Even if I choose the MacBooks Mic, I can't see any input...

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27952

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

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Re: DigiFace AVB - MacOS Freezes and Kernel Panic at 96kHz [RESOLVED]

Dear MC, you made my day thank you :-)
But really strange: my first installation of reaper (the arm version) did not ask for Microphone access. So I installed both the Intel and ARM version again. This time I was asked for Micropohe access. And now everything works. I just did my first 3 hours test, recording 32 tracks of 24 bit and 96 kHz with no issue.
Thanks everybody in the thread. I guess this will be my new recorder for live recordings.