Topic: Understanding the middle row

So I am a new user trying to come to terms with Totalmix and in particular understanding the middle row.

With the top row everything is ok, when I raise and lower volume etc

Same with the bottom row - When raising or lowering volume for monitors it is reflected as one would expect

Now when it comes to the middle row I have windows and cubase both using AN1/2 if I mute the channel it does as expected and mutes anything coming from SW but if I raise or lower the fader it has no effect ! Why ?

I read this very good post, but it was a little difficult for a beginner https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=28844

Also I would like to make the faders bigger but when I opt for a bigger 135% some of the faders are off the screen and there is no scrolling option ?

Any help would be much appreciated

Re: Understanding the middle row

So on the bottom row of Total mix to the left I have HW outputs and on the right I have Control Room, this only has one fader named main, which seems to correspond to my headphones is this correct or should there be more in the control room ?

I notice that in some tutorials there are two faders in the control room ?

Re: Understanding the middle row

Could someone tell me a "Novice" how to set up separate faders in software playback for Windows and Cubase ?

4 (edited by ramses 2022-05-28 08:21:17)

Re: Understanding the middle row

Guess you wouldn't have TotalMix FX, then you would have to route everything in the daw/application.
This has a major drawback, because then you have the full RTL (round trip latency) in each audio flow.

BTW, this behaviour you would get when changing TM FX operational mode to "DAW mode", then the middle row disappears.
But I can not recommend this, you loose a lot of flexibility.

Instead of this use the power of TM FX. Its very easy once you know the basic priciple of operation and then all is clear.

In submix mode you can create an individual submix for each of the HW outputs in two easy steps:

1. select a HW output e.g. "AN1/2" (bottom row)
2. observe faders positions of HW inputs (top row) and/or SW playbacks (middle row) to check current routing
3. move faders of HW inputs (top row) and/or SW playbacks (middle row) to modify the routing to your demands

After selecting the HW output AN1/2 in submix mode, you will see "AN1/2" at the bottom of each fader in top/middle row.
This indicates which HW outputs submix you are working on.
The level meters support you to see, which channels carry audio.

When inspecting a submix (for a selected HW output) you can press/toggle the little button "sub" on the right side under "Layout Presets", then you will see only those HW input + SW playback channels which route audio into the selected HW output/submix "AN1/2".

So in submix mode all routing settings/changes are related to a particular HW output / submix, hence te name submix mode.
This you need to know/learn, to see routing from a submix perspective "what do I want to hear on this output".
And this can be something from HW inputs (with near-zero latency) or audio from PC through the SW playback channels.

This way you can create very flexible submixes consisting of
- audio from HW inputs (top row) with near-zero latency and
- audio from PW/applications (middle row) with the typical RTL (round trip latency)

For a quick start in terms of routing you can use this combination of reset mix then you achive the same routing as if you would use DAW mode

1. TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Total Reset - 1st of all a total reset
2. TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Straight Playback (this is like DAW mode, route all in on PC with DAW/application)
    Then Audio from PC (middle row) is being routed to the corresponding HW output (bottom row), e.g.:
    SW playback AN1/2 -> HW output AN1/2
    SW playback AN3/4 -> HW output AN3/4

Should you prefer that everything is being routed to Main Out, then use:
2. TM FX -> Options -> Reset Mix -> Straight Playback with all to Main Out

Fuirther information here, this leads you to other valuable sources of information
- step by step setup primer which I wrote to achive a nice 1st time setup
- excellent RME TM FX tutorial videos that do not waste any time, simply good information
==> https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34394

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Understanding the middle row

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my question, however I can't quite understand everything. Is there a simpler way to explain, I am so sorry I can't quite follow

Re: Understanding the middle row

Assumed your main monitors are connected to HW output AN1/2
Configure a WDM device in RME driver settings for AN1/2 and select it as speaker device.
In windows sound settings you will see now this speaker device, make this to your Windows standard sound device.
Now all audio will be send to AN1/2 and in TotalMix FX you will see audio in SW playback AN1/2.

In cubase audio connections (F4), TAB "outputs", add a stereo channel and select AN3/4 as output.
You should save it as a preset as you most likely will need this also for any further project.
Best is to create a template with this settings.
In Cubase you need to use this output in your output routing, usually for your main stereo output.
I don't know your usual project organization, you might have channels which you send to different subgroups for drums, vocals, etc, which will have their output to another subgroup called maybe "mixbus".
There you can use mixing/mastering tools and the output of this mixbux might be finally "stereo out" which has finally an output routing to the defined output channel (-> F4 ...).
This audio you will see in TM FX under SW playback channel AN 3/4.

The rest is the standard TM FX routing, that every hw output has its individual submix/monitoring mix.
Select an output (bottom row) and the move e.g. faders of
- SW playback 1/2
- SW playback 3/4
to create the individual submix as you want/need to have, as I explained to you here:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 03#p188003

Please avoid to start different threads for the same thematic, thanks. Makes handling more easier, as everybody can see what has been told already to this topic to avoid redundancy as much as possible, as all explaining takes time.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Understanding the middle row

The purpose of TM FX control room is simply, that you can use TM FX control room functions as dim, mono, etc.
Otherwise it makes no difference.

Use the "assign" button to define the channels for "Main Out", "Phones1".
As it makes sense that these outputs move to the TM control room.

But all this is explained already in other guides that have been written with the intention not having to explain this again and again wink

Please look here and start from ground up: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34394

I mentioned already that I wrote e.g. a primer for a good 1st setup and that there are also good RME tutorial videos.
Also the manual is very good, maybe look at it after the primer and the videos, then you understand it maybe better.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Understanding the middle row

There is no option for Phones 1 only Phones 3/4 ?

Re: Understanding the middle row

Phones 3\4 is probably the output for phones 1

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

10 (edited by ramses 2022-05-27 14:09:06)

Re: Understanding the middle row

Gents .. if you klick to the ASSIGN button in the control room, then you see clearly predefined functions as
- Main Out
- Main Out B
- Phones 1
- Phones 2
..
- Phones 4
..
If you move the mouse to any of these predefined channels, you get another menue where you can select, which of the HW ouputs should be e.g. Main Out or Phones 1.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Understanding the middle row

Please add an information to your signature, what RME product you own.
I am pretty much sure that this is the same for each products supporting/having TotalMix FX.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Understanding the middle row

I find all this very confusing.

As you say if I click on the assign I get options but not exactly as you describe !

It would be helpful to have some guidance on what typical setups might look like.

For example, I have never had a control room setting before so I have no knowledge of what it should look like or contain

13 (edited by ramses 2022-05-27 17:23:49)

Re: Understanding the middle row

> I find all this very confusing.

BTW .. you still didn't write, which product you own although I proposed this for e.g. this reason:

> As you say if I click on the assign I get options but not exactly as you describe !

Then pls post a screenshot of what you see.

> It would be helpful to have some guidance on what typical setups might look like.

I gave you information about a step by step primer for a 1st time setup, see post #4. Did you have a look at it ?

> For example, I have never had a control room setting before so I have no knowledge of what it should look like or contain

It doesn't matter for the routing part of a setup, whether channels are in the control room or not. The only difference is, that for HW outputs - that you assign to the control room as Main Out, Phones 1, etc. - you can use control room features.
I told you this already in post #7.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Understanding the middle row

The middle faders are what you see in your DAW. Clicking on a bottom fader you then have to alter the middle faders for each bottom fader (physical out). So to be clear depending on which bottom fader you click on it will be a totally different middle fader mix.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

15 (edited by SpinWorkRecord 2022-08-06 07:07:00)

Re: Understanding the middle row

scouser wrote:

I find all this very confusing.

As you say if I click on the assign I get options but not exactly as you describe !

It would be helpful to have some guidance on what typical setups might look like.

For example, I have never had a control room setting before so I have no knowledge of what it should look like or contain


Yeah it is confusing. You probably figured it out by now, but here is what made it click for me. Most of this you know but it applies to the middle. I will start with the basic use case and then as my post progresses, it will get more complex (and awesome) in what you can do.

Click on your main out, bottom right - it will turn grey. Look at the faders in the top row and the middle. Anything with faders up will send sound through your main outs (most likely your monitors). Go ahead and move some faders up if they are down or move them down if they are up. This will make sense in a second.

Now move over to the bottom left (same row as the main outs) where it faintly says "hardware outputs" at the bottom. Click on any of those. The selection will turn grey. Now look at the same faders - some will most likely be in different positions then what you just saw with the Mains. So by clicking on any bottom fader you control what is sent to the hardware connected to it (speakers, a sampler, a hardware effect..etc)

So for me, when I now go to the  in the middle row, I have my computer audio on 1/2. Whatever I am playing - DAW audio or YouTube even, I will see signal (green)  in that middle fader.

To get that audio out of my monitors I go back to the main output in the bottom right and click on it so it turns grey. I then look at that same middle fader (I labeled mine DAW/CPU) and double click it so the fader is up. Now I have the computer audio out of my monitors.



-Ok this is a little more advanced-

Lets say I have a sampler connected to my outs 3 and 4 . I want to send that same DAW/CPU audio to it. So I go down to the bottom left and click on the fader for 3/4 (again I changed the label to Akaai in this case). The fader turns grey and I see that the DAW fader in the middle row is down again. I double click it to zero and now I have that audio going into my Sampler and also out to my monitors. I click on my main outs fader and see that the sampler is sending sound into the top row at 3/4 as well. I gently raise that fader and start to hear the audio doubling up - why? Because I have the fader for the DAW/CPU up in the main outs and it's sending sound into the sampler, which is sending the same signal back to my mains. So I simply click on the DAW fader while the mains outs are still selected and lower that. I then raise the sampler volume and now I can mess with the sounds coming out of my DAW/PC while just hearing the results on the sampler.

Hopefully this makes sense. If it does here is a bonus tip and why TotalMix is so cool.

Ok now lets say I have a synthesizer coming into the top row at 5/6. It is an older synth with no effects on it so it sounds pretty dry. I just bought a really cool strymon reverb pedal and I'd love to hear it on the synth. The only problem is I hooked up the Strymon already to my RME interface and I dont want to crawl back there and unplug it and move it over to the synth. What I do know is that the Strymon has it's sound output coming into the top row (inputs) at 7/8 and it's input coming into  bottom row on 7/8 as well. That's 4 cables I have to hook up so the effect can receive the sound and the send it back, but well worth the effort.  Ok, so what's so great about that?

Well now I go down to the bottom row and click on output 7/8 (strymon) so it is grey. I then look at the fader for the synth. It is down. I have the synth play a sequence so its making noise and raise the volume. Boom, now it is coming through the strymon pedal and I can dial in the synths  sound with lush reverb. What makes this so cool is I basically can click on the Strymons outs in total mix and send any sound I want into the pedal just by raising a fader. I could get crazy and raise multiple faders and send them all in together if I wanted and record the result in a DAW by selecting the Strymons out.

So the beauty of Totalmix is you can freely route audio to any connected piece of gear that can receive it. What this means is that in the above example I could have sent the synth to my sampler instead and used the effects on it. Or played a chord progression on the synth, sampled it in and then processed it however I want.

Or, I could send the synth through the strymon then clicked on the bottom left fader for the sampler (hardware output area), and then raised the fader for the strymon and sampled the synth's sound after it hits the strymon reverb. That's pretty darn cool, and also can be really confusing if you don't take your time and just slowly try these things out.

I will add that you can run all that DAW audio through the strymon as well and sample that too. It's pretty much however you want to route the sound, you just do it - once you figure out that trick that the faders at the bottom are all different "sound receivers" and you are simply clicking on them, and raising the volume for the incoming sounds you want them to receive.