1 (edited by Max 2023-05-15 02:26:29)

Topic: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

!!! We found an issue that could cause our devices to lose sync every ~8.5 minutes when receiving a signal from an RME MADI Router. This is fixed in the following update !!!

We are excited to announce the next release candidate firmware, with new features and numerous improvements:

  • All devices can now be configured with a static IP address

https://dl.rme.to/img/240160_screenshot3.png
A frequent request from users who do not want the device IP address for the web interface to be retrieved automatically via DHCP. The IP address can now be set on the device in the State>Remote section.

  • M-Series (M-32 Pro, M-1610 Pro) now reveal temperature and fan speed controls on the device screen

Several users have requested a possibility to inspect fan speed and temperatures on the device itself, rather than using the remote control. This is now added.
https://dl.rme.to/img/240160_screenshot2.png

  • All devices now feature an additional, dedicated AVB Clock Reference (CRF) stream for media clocking

This means better out of the box compatibility with MILAN AVB devices. We removed the CRF stream format from the other streams since they are not necessary anymore. Now users can use all eight streams for audio while being synchronized to (or sharing) a dedicated media clock stream. The CRF stream input has also been improved to pass MILAN certification requirements.

  • The stream configuration of the Web UI has been improved

We implemented that the 'stream state' field updates while the dialog is open, and introduced other units to adjust the default presentation time offset. Where the user was previously left with setting the PTO (also referred to as MTT, maximum transit time) in nanoseconds, we now offer microseconds, milliseconds and even samples (based on the current sampling frequency):
https://dl.rme.to/img/240160_screenshot1.png

In addition, there are countless improvements under the hood, addressing the JSON API, the ATDECC counters and notifications and MILAN compatibility.

Download links:
12Mic
AVB Tool
M-1610 Pro
M-32 AD Pro
M-32 DA Pro

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

New version uploaded with bugfix for M-32 Pro and AVB Tool talker streams.

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

Updated to reflect that the firmware has been released.

4 (edited by cigame 2023-01-26 14:29:31)

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

My 12 mic is no longer recognized by Audio Midi Configuration App and therefor not usable with AVB.
Mac OS 13.2
12mic_fw_xm_1.6.0_v159_20230119.swu

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

Hi cigame,

where exactly don't you see the 12mic anymore? Network Device Browser?
If so: Though it's strange that it's not listed anymore, the "acquire mode" isn't supported at the moment anyways (for reason explained elsewhere in the forum).
The most robust solution is the virtual entity mode, controlled by Hive or the integrated AVDECC connection matrix.
Is it listed there or by Apple's AVDECC entity controller? Please post a screenshot of those windows if possible!

On my MacBook Pro M1 (...which still is on 12.6) the current firmware works better than the previous ones (due to compatibility tweaks).

6 (edited by Max 2023-01-27 02:53:21)

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

In Ventura, macOS allows to disable the "Acquire Entity" capabilities altogether, using the Terminal:

avbutil> acquire-mode help
acquire-mode usage:
 acquire-mode status
    Get the current status of acquire mode.
 acquire-mode enable
    Enable acquire mode.
 acquire-mode disable
    Disable acquire mode.

I set this to disabled for the reasons mentioned above (it is not working anyway with MILAN devices) - MILAN does not allow exclusive acquisition of an entity by a controller at the moment. Also, acquiring several devices would require aggregate devices to use them in the DAW, so it's not really a feasible solution for pro audio. It is more of a convenience function if you really only want to connect a single (non-milan compliant) device.

Regardless, in Ventura it is now possible to connect a 12Mic/AVB Tool/M-(32/1610) Pro to macOS without using the terminal at all if a compatible network adapter (internal ports if any, or Thunderbolt adapters like Sonnet Thunderbolt AVB Adapter) is used. Attached AVB adapters do not require firmware or drivers, those are always part of macOS (one less thing to worry about...)

Simply
- verify in System Settings that the network adapter has "AVB/EAV Mode" checked (Network > Adapter[Details...] > Hardware)
- open Audio MIDI Setup, then
- open the Window "Network Device Browser" (Command+3)
- click on the (new) little network port icon in the titlebar ("Open AVB Configuration Utility")
- open the window "ATDECC Controller" (Command+2)
- in the left column, click the name of the network adapter that's connected to 12Mic (with/without AVB switch in between)
- then, on the right side, set a checkmark for "built-in virtual entity"
- "open" (unfold) the AVB device tree that appears below the network adapter on the left, you should see a Domain (a round logo that looks like a net) and within it the Mac that you're using and the 12Mic

- Click the Mac icon and configure it:
for example with an M1 Mac, you can use
  - 8 streams with 64 channels,
  - clock at 192 kHz, and the I/O stream formats should all be AAF-PCM 24 bits with the corresponding sampling rate
  - Source for clocking: Mac System Clock

If using the 12Mic as clock master, then keep in mind that the stream must be connected in order for the audio device to show up in Audio MIDI Setup/DAW. In that case, chose AVB Input Stream 1 as Clock source. Otherwise, use Mac System Clock and configure the 12Mic to be synchronized to AVB Input Stream 1.

Note: if you want more settings, you can now (macOS Ventura) open AVB Controller Settings (Command+,) and show advanced and developer settings. This will reveal every ATDECC control that RME devices provide, and allow you to (for example) configure MADI frame format and dark mode settings natively from macOS, which is kind of cool. Unfortunately, individual channel controls are not yet enumerated and some controls have not the right type of switches. But it is great to see that AVB is getting so much attention within the operating system. Getting better with every release.

Up to here, this is mostly a one-time configuration. Unless you change the network adapter or sampling rate, you don't need to worry about going through all these steps again. Now the fun part starts:

- Make sure that the 12Mic has the same AAF format (default) and sampling rate set.
- On the left side of the AVB Controller in macOS, click the icon below the network adapter (above the Mac&12Mic). The matrix appears.
- Connect the eight outputs of the 12Mic to the Mac, and vice versa. Once the connections are established, you now have a new audio device in Audio MIDI Setup with 64 I/O.

Tweak: depending on your network size, you could set the default PTO (presentation time offset/maximum transit time) of the 12Mic's outgoing stream settings (webui) from default 2ms to something lower, like 128 samples or 64 samples. In my case (at 192kHz) I had to set the stream PTO of the 12Mic to 239 samples in order to have the exact same latency value that Core Audio reports as accumulated latency to the DAW (1112 samples). It is (Ventura 13.2) not yet possible to change the outgoing stream PTO from the Mac to the 12Mic (it appears to be a bug, at least when I change the field it captures my cursor forever), which could further reduce the round trip delay by ~1.5ms in future.

Running this at 64ch@192k with ~25% total system load (many apps running in background) on a MacBook Pro M1 (core audio using up to 90% of a single core) seems to be very stable on macOS Ventura. Powering off the 12Mic while streaming is not a good idea - what happens depends on who is clock master. If the Mac is slave, then the audio device disappears altogether (a running recording can be stopped and completed, no crash in my test).
Changing the sampling rate from Audio MIDI Setup does not work. It must be done from the AVB Controller. However, it is now possible to keep the AVB Controller in dock permanently.

All in all, this is impressive. This means that you can connect an RME device to an (Apple Silicon) Mac at 96 kHz, use both of its MADI ports (each 32 channels) and stream everything to/from the device over a single cable without an additional audio interface. Intel Macs might not show the same performance, but should work equally well at least with fewer streams. This is very exciting smile, looking forward to more feedback from users.

7 (edited by cigame 2023-01-27 09:37:58)

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

Thank you Max for your large explanation.
I did all that you suggested except the terminal tweaking.
The problem might be, that it is not possible to change the stream format in the web UI.
It does not show AAF format and if I try to change it, it will not do.
So there is a discrepancy between web UI and the format shown in the apple AVB Configuration Utility and the 12 mic will not show up in Audio Midi Setup
https://we.tl/t-m8FsztMnef

To be honest, this is all much too complicated for me to configure and I should stay with the MADI setup at the moment, which is working perfectly on
my system with UFX+, 12 mic and 1619 pro on M1 Mac.

But for the future, maybe when my UFX+ breaks...

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

Changing presets for example AVB to MADI seems to hang the 12Mic. So it has to be hard reset.

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

From which firmware did you update to this one? 1.4.0 or from 1.5.1?

Could you download all presets using the web ui and send us the tar file? (For example to support at rme-audio.de)

Thank you
-Max

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

updated from:
12mic_fw_xm_1.6.0rc2_v154_20221129.swu

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

11 (edited by cigame 2023-01-28 13:19:42)

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

Also tried with Intel MBP on Monterey. AVB is not showing up in Audio Midi Setup.
12 Mic shows up in Network Devices of Audio Midi Setup, but when trying to set the hook, it disappears.

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

Finally I got it running connected to Mac mini M1.
Than went back to 16" M1 and it also worked, but only using Hive 1.2.9
I have to chose Mac System Clock.
Other clock sources don't work.
Also changing name of preset on 12 mic web UI is not possible.
12 Mic via 32 channel AVB and 1610 Pro connected to 12 Mic with MADI coax.
System load around 80% coreaudio.
With LOGIC running 32 channels and software monitoring user load around 19%
More testing tomorrow

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

After you have it up and running, with Mac System Clock as clock source, can you try switching it back to AVB stream x (where x is a valid and connected stream)?
I have this from time to time directly after "startup" (i.e. switching on the AVB tool and AVB switch, after the Mac has been in standby over night), switching to Mac internal and back usually helps. Would be interesting to know if this helps in your case too.

14 (edited by cigame 2023-01-30 07:13:40)

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

After spending almost the whole day, trying to configure, I gave up the hope for using AVB.
At the moment there is no benefit for me to use AVB as long as I can still use my UFX+.
Setting up a system on a live gig is so much easier with MADI and system load is also much less with Thunderbolt.
Even if I would buy a Digiface AVB, I would strongly miss backup recording and EFX in Total Mix.

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

15 (edited by cigame 2023-01-30 12:57:47)

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

What puzzles me the most is that I need Hive to select output streams and that these settings are not saved.
In the web IO, settings are not changeable. Even presets are not changeable.
When you select AAF format for all, it is not changed and in Apple ATDECC matrix it says there is a conflict with the stream formats although when I look at the AVB Controller Settings, all streams are having the green dot on the right side.
I can select the output streams in Hive to get it to work but they are appearing as yellow squares with a red dot inside.
The input streams appear as green dots as it should be afaik.
At the moment internal Mac system clock seems to be the only option.
All settings should be remembered by the Mac and 12Mic.
That would be first priority for me using AVB on location recording.

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

16

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

This is getting a little off-topic (sorry, I started it) and I could not reproduce any of the problems. Just to set this straight - we are currently not promoting this or previous firmwares to be Apple AVB compatible, we are merely striving towards interoperability while keeping our priority on MILAN compliance. In my tests, this firmware brings us a big step forward, with clock in both directions syncing and re-connections after signal loss. The complexity of changing sampling rate is something that would have to be much simpler before I would recommend/use it myself for recording.

Your symptoms (cannot change presets etc.) sound like as if the Mac has somehow acquired the 12Mic even though it should not (and does not reveal that, maybe leftover configuration from previous tests where the 12Mic appeared in the Audio MIDI setup Network device list). What happens when you change the preset on the device itself? Have you switched off the acquire entity feature using the terminal? Maybe that would solve the problem?

We are not yet 100% sure if it fully works to have Hive and the macOS ATDECC controller active at the same time (until 13.2, the macOS controller would simply crash if Hive was open...). I noticed some errors in Hive (red dots in green squares / MSRP errors - the yellow squares mean that the formats are not identical) that seemed implausible to me.

Unless you feel that this update definitely broke a working feature of a previous firmware, please feel free to open a new thread. The 12Mic did appear in the past in the Audio MIDI Setup browser but as we have stated, even if it did, acquisition would not lead to usable/successful audio streaming because at the moment, macOS expects so-called 'static mappings' while MILAN requires 'dynamic mappings' for the inputs and outputs. So it is correct that the device is not shown in the network window of Audio MIDI setup.

17 (edited by cigame 2023-01-30 17:08:00)

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

What happens when you change the preset on the device itself?

The 12 Mic will freeze. Have to reset by switching off and on again on the backside.

Have you switched off the acquire entity feature using the terminal? Maybe that would solve the problem?

How can I do this?

The above commands lead to
command not found

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

18

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

We are very curious what is happening here, I will send you an email with instructions on how to send us the system logs.

How can I do this?

Open the terminal application, then type

avbutil

followed by enter key.

Then, type

acquire-mode disable

again followed by enter and restart the mac.

On the 12Mic, load factory defaults, and do not open Hive while going through above configuration.

19 (edited by cigame 2023-01-31 13:55:59)

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

Thank you very much Max!
That seems the way to go.
With Hive under MacOS 13.2 at the moment.

Although it may be off topic ;-)

May I just disconnect ethernet cable to change to a MADI configuration?
Or is it better to change the presets in Web UI first.

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

20

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

If I understand correctly, your Mac is no longer acquiring the 12Mic. That means you should now be able to change presets as much as you like, also with AVB connected (maybe even while streaming), to MADI configurations and back. Hive and the macOS ATDECC controller only observe the changes in the background, but they do not actively change them (for example, if you set the clock source to MADI, then macOS will not change it to something else because of a previous configuration). All that happened in my tests was that the virtual entity disappears and I could not recover it without disconnecting the network interface briefly after bringing the 12Mic back to the settings macOS was expecting (clock source, sampling rate, stream formats).

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and begin a longterm RME user i've been following the AVB world for a couple of years now.
Thanks a lot for the information here, I managed to get the following setup working:

-M1610-Pro firmware 2.5.0 (V166)
-Mac mini M2 OS ventura 13.5.1. (1 AAF stream of 8 channels)
-Luminex Gigacore 12 Firmware 2.8.9
-Meyer Sound Galaxy

Audio streams flawlessly from the Mac to the RME and the Galaxy, controlled by Hive. Except for the MSRP Latency Error (for the incoming streams in the RME from the Mac) in Hive the systems reports no errors.

Two questions / observations about this:

-When reconnecting the physical devices or rebooting the system the patch of the outgoing streams from the Mac to the RME are lost and replaced by a patch i did not make. (Output stream of the Mac to all of the input streams of the RME).
Audio is lost when this occurs obviously.
When connecting the Mac to the Galaxy, it reconnects like it should.
I tried this with and without a switch, AVB acquire-mode is disabled I the Mac.

Is this a know problem I can do something about, or just a matter of incompatibility?

Furthermore, Hive reports this warning every second:

Unpack LINEAR value warning: Remaining data in GET_CONTROL response.

If I can get this to work I will continue with some stability testing to see if it will be usable in live audio situations.

Thanks!

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

I also tested a lot with AVB on Mac.
On Sonoma beta, it's working smoothly, as long as I select the Mac System clock source.
No need to reconfigure anything after sleep mode or restarting.
Communication between Mac and RME 12Mic is instantly there.

I wonder if there is any advantage when using a different clock when only using two devices.
Or will it sound any "better" if I use Media Clock Input Stream or Audio Input Stream 123 or 4

UFX+, FireFace 802 FS, Digiface USB
12 Mic, M1610 pro, Micstasy
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

23

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

When reconnecting the physical devices or rebooting the system the patch of the outgoing streams from the Mac to the RME are lost and replaced by a patch i did not make. (Output stream of the Mac to all of the input streams of the RME).

There is a dedicated thread to this topic https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=37898

However in the meantime I have also attempted to reproduce this with Ventura and Sonoma beta and could not reproduce it. Streams are re-connected by the listeners, so when the entities discover each other, they restart the incoming streams on each side respectively. This was stable in my tests. If you continue to encounter this issue, please post your detailed configuration in the above mentioned post, thanks!

I wonder if there is any advantage when using a different clock when only using two devices.

It does not make a difference.

Re: Firmware Updates 12Mic, AVB Tool, M-1610/M-32 Pro 2.4.0/1.6.0

Thanks for looking into this Max.
I will do some more testing and report back in the other thread.