1 (edited by Happy_amateur 2024-10-01 16:11:19)

Topic: Wiring from D-sub contact

Ive been working on small stereobench for my 9.5" RME boxes ADI-2 PRO and UCX2.  For this I have made a row of eight AES and Spdif contacts to reside at the back of the bench. This is supposed to connect with DB-9 to DB-9 cable from electronics to the bench I/O

https://imgur.com/a/WLna55k

A couple of questions have come to mind though. Wiring in manual is self-explanatory, but I seem to have messed up my mind about it

1. AES ground puzzles me. Is it common for in and out, or is it just connected to one of the contacts? On the AES contact there is also a solder point for chassi-ground. Can someone make sense for me.

2. Importance of internal cabling. I have some nice thin 110ohm installation cable and 75ohm coax I ripped from a video cable to use. WC cable reflections has become a mind-bug for me, but now I want to ask the forum; Is this a real problem with a stretch around 0.5m or could I use some microphone cable for this. Is the stock BO-adapter even impedance matched, the DB-9 contacts sure isnt? I have the cable for the internal wiring, but im not to keen to use this stiff cabling for a custom DB-9 cable.

3. I dont get the image function to work properly. How do I get an image to show then the post is opened?

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

2 (edited by ramses 2024-10-01 16:04:22)

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

Happy_amateur wrote:

3. I dont get the image function to work properly. How do I get an image to show then the post is opened?

See https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewto … 23#p219923

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

ramses wrote:
Happy_amateur wrote:

3. I dont get the image function to work properly. How do I get an image to show then the post is opened?

See https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewto … 23#p219923

Thnx Ramses! I see the problem here.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

1. The same ground, pin 1 of the D-sub, is connected to AES in and out.
This is even linked to ADI-2 chassis ground internally.

The XLR plugs‘ casings should be connected to ground either, for blocking HF.


2. On short interconnections, less than a few meters, the impedance matching isn‘t critical.
Typical microphone cable is close to 110 Ohm and can be used for AES.
Video cable had 75 Ohm and fits to Coax digital anyway.


WC isn‘t present on the 9-pin D-sub.
ADI-2 FS-clock perfectly recovers WC out of the selected source.

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

KaiS wrote:

1. The same ground, pin 1 of the D-sub, is connected to AES in and out.
This is even linked to ADI-2 chassis ground internally.

The XLR plugs‘ casings should be connected to ground either, for blocking HF.


2. On short interconnections, less than a few meters, the impedance matching isn‘t critical.
Typical microphone cable is close to 110 Ohm and can be used for AES.
Video cable had 75 Ohm and fits to Coax digital anyway.


WC isn‘t present on the 9-pin D-sub.
ADI-2 FS-clock perfectly recovers WC out of the selected source.

Thnx Kais!

I opened the BO-adapter to check the soldering so chassi and pin has a bridge

I mentioned WC bcs I read the passage from UCX2 manual about reflections in WC coax cabling and the importance of termination etc. so I checked it out with a few searches. This is a problem with type analog video and high bandwith transfers, but whitout deeper understanding I cant put this into scale and perspective for digital audio ie upto 200khz.
This box will never see more than a metre of Spdif anyway, but if I can make it right from the start I would surely like to reach Spdif spec. From what I understand its impedance changes in transmission that makes echoes, reflections and standing waves in the system. So with DB9 - unspecified cable - DB9 - internal cable - Neutrik chassi contacts - coax cable - source its a lot of jumps.
What im left with is the DB9 cables between ADI/UCX and the shelf as the weak link. The 75ohm cable I have has like 99% memory, so its unapropriate to make cables from. Ive found some very nice 75ohm micro coaxial, but its like 3k a roll and no one wants to sell it by the metre. Do you know of a good german webshop for this?

This project holds alot of prestige for me and I have been planning the woodworking for like 1.5 y. It has three types of 2mm ebony sawed veneer laid with traditional tooling and hot glue. So no skimping on the details big_smile

Anyway thanks for advice, I can go on either way with this

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

6 (edited by KaiS 2024-10-02 07:15:31)

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

75 Ohm cable is video standard.

You find those cables everywhere: coax antenna and satellite cables for FM radio and tv sets, inside Scart cables, domestic video cables with (typically yellow colored) RCA plugs etc.

As mentioned, for short interlinks it’s not mission critical at all, bare wires would do (not that I recommend this).
But typical cheap accessory RCA cables for audio do fit too.
The plugs in between don’t represent a problem either.


The mentioned WC cabling is another story, it is about end-termination, which indeed is very important to avoid reflections AND reach the correct electrical signal level.
But, in your case end-termination is already built into each device, you don’t need and by no means should care about it.


So don’t worry too much, use what you have or find, it will do.


Final tip:
SPDIF digital Coax for distances beyond specs can be achieved with cables for digital satellite dish connection, I’ve done 25 m with no problems.
These 75 Ohm cables have ultra-low loss, as the are made for 2 GHz, almost 100 times more than the ca. 25 MHz you find in SPDIF Coax.
These cables are readily available in tv stores and very cheap.

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

Thanks KaiS! Im in the safe zone again smile much appreciated!

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

Ive been building a parts list for an ideal transmission, mostly for personal education, as these components are expensive. Im gonna go for your @KaiS advice to use what I have. with some minor upgrades.

Is short what Ive come up with: DB-9 contact with 5-pin and two 75ohm coax inserts (*4 for ADIpro and UCXII). Special solder for thick gold plating. Micro coax cable. Just for coax inserts its €40, so this is just a rabbit hole of expenses. Like I said this box wont see more than a few meter spdif anyway. It would be to maintain impedance, but the most benefit would be a professional look.

Good idea though. I can test the system with cheap TV 75ohm cabling. I think I have some(alot) stashed. Just to run bittests and get some idea of the quality.

Most intelligent solution, I think would be to drive a whole length of cable from ADI2pro DB9 to output and use a rubber gasket and stoppers through BO-chassi, At least this does not subtract from original BO-968 solution. Then again I have the standard db-9 contacts and kinda looked forward to solder and build that stuff.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

9 (edited by KaiS Yesterday 15:25:48)

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

A lot of overkill in your list.


A gold plated (most are anyway) DB-9 connector costs a few pennies, with a reusable screw-on housing.
RCAs with gold plated contacts and XLR connectors are some $5 a piece.
That’s it.
What do you mean by “coax inserts”?

No special solder needed - in 45 years I’ve never heard and needed a “special” solder for gold plated contacts - just standard electronics solder works.


Cables are already discussed, normal quality, nothing exotic.

Digital bits either come through or not, there are no “better sounding bits”, whatever you can read in some esoteric audiophile forums.
Imagine, the bits are not even transferred in the order they are converted to analog, but have to be “sorted” in the converter when received, and internally in the converters there are a number of digital processing intersteps!

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

-A lot of overkill in your list

You think so? big_smile These contacts are for labs and hospitals. Overkill is kind of the intention, but its also functional even too much.

-Coax inserts??

These are something like usual DB contacts, and there is a whole range of them. They have some big through holes plus pins. These holes can be use to transmit high power, coax and even pneumatics. Its just standard parts. I found the perfect parts for my use; a DB9 sized 2 holes and 5 pins. Which eqals 2 coax + AES I/O in one contact, with 75ohm impedance all the way.

Naturally these cost more than standard DB, maybe €30+/contact, this is for asembled contact, esp coax is expensive with 2/3 of that. The coax look good quality with solder pot and crimp.

About solder I read a some papers about soldering gold plate, the problem arises with tin mix solders and gold layer above 1.5 micron. Search for "gold scavenging" + "solder". The contacts have au layer right at threshold. This doesnt worry me so much as I could use indium and led pellets for a lots of cool stuff, not that expensive either. You can solder glass to metal with Indium, and it even sticks in cryogenic temp.
Thought was to make InPb 50/50 and use that. This is some milspec stuff and certainely because of mechanical properties of the joint. As gold - tin intermetallics can progressively degrade the joint, above 1.5 micron.

The cable is recomended for the coax contacts and typically come in 100m rolls at €3000. Its about size of jacket and insulation not magic. If I could just find a few meters.

-Digital bits either come through or not, there are no “better sounding bits”, whatever you can read in some esoteric audiophile forums.
Imagine, the bits are not even transferred in the order they are converted to analog, but have to be “sorted” in the converter when received, and internally in the converters there are a number of digital processing intersteps!-

I know that drill! Totally agree. I dont expect any special or magic sound or recovered bits. No rabbits from the hat smile

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

Look im trying to outshine you about the solder or anything stupid like that. For all I know those alloys are for warheads meant to be stockpiled in a wet bunker for 50 years. there is actually another au/? 80/20 solder meant to solve the same problem. Insanely expensive for a 3" by less than 1mm thick.  Audio contacts doesnt see these thick layers. I dont know, but its prob way below the 1,5micron there gold migration into tin will start, and over time it will brittle he joint, and with enough gold and tin at one place to eventually destroy it.
I have some other Indium and bismuth solder here. Im just a newbie at soldering, but IMHO these are really nice bcs the low temp needed. Easy to use
So if you learned something im glad, i certainely did from this discussion. Ofcourse this is overkill, like using WC in a home audio setup, but while its totally unesesary, it still works in a stack of DCS components. Like these creme de la creme DB contacts I wanted to show you.

Back to earth RME should do a BO-box for BO-968 compatible. The cable does the job,but its also a dingle dangle like all other adapters. 2* XLR plugs are like 150 grams + further cables. Maybe someone would prefer a 9.5" box to put below their ADI2 pro or UCXII with real chassi contacts. D-tox looks like really high quality. It would be a nice peripheral.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

12

Re: Wiring from D-sub contact

Now that you described it, I remember having some of those DB/coax plugs lying around.
But - where do you use them in your configuration?
Thought you’re going from the DB-9 at ADI-2’s back directly to the patchfield with XLR and RCA outlets.

Maybe I misunderstood what exactly you’re about to build.

BTW: coax isn’t ideal for AES, as coax is not balanced, and you miss the screen contact.


About failed soldering joint - whenever that happened here, it was:
• Due to mechanical stress, when the solder itself broke on circuit boards.
• Simply the copper wire broke.

I’ve never seen solder joints to gold plated plug contacts fail or come loose.
This all with standard 60/40/0.5 SN/PB/CU or lead-free SN 96.5 AG 3.5 CU 0.5 electronics solder.

Typically the wire sticks inside a little hole in the back of the contact, filled up with solder. This is a very strong connection.
When correctly done, additionally the flux from inside the solder wire covers the metal for very good environmental protection.

What fails over decades are the litz wires inside the cables, long before the solder joints have a chance to do so.


Interesting remark about soldering with Indium, I’ll have a look.
For electronics normal solder will do, but I occasionally have other tasks.