Topic: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

Hi there !

I have just purchased a 12 mic for studio pre amp expansion. Octamic XTC is no longer available so this is it.
It is hooked to a UFX III via optical and usb with the last RME connector and it works great, the preamps are awesome and 12 of them is mighty good indeed : I have a 16 mic studio in a 2 unit rack !

Now I want to use it remotely in order to record in, say in an isolated little house,  a barn, etc using a MADI cable. I thought MIDI OVER MADI meant I can manage the RME connector via the only MADI connection. But as soon as I disconnect the usb cable, the RME connector appears offline. Please help !

2 (edited by waedi 2024-09-04 20:06:18)

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

In the Connector Settings wich Midi Ports have you selected ?

Page 47 user manual UFX lll :
These ports can be accessed under the name UFX III MADI Optical and UFX III MADI coaxial or UFX III MIDI Port 3 and 4.

The Midi ports you have to select in the Connector settings therefore shall be : UFX III MADI Optical (input and output)

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 (edited by ramses 2024-09-04 20:17:44)

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

Gautier wrote:

Hi there !

I have just purchased a 12 mic for studio pre amp expansion. Octamic XTC is no longer available so this is it.
It is hooked to a UFX III via optical and usb with the last RME connector and it works great, the preamps are awesome and 12 of them is mighty good indeed : I have a 16 mic studio in a 2 unit rack !

Now I want to use it remotely in order to record in, say in an isolated little house,  a barn, etc using a MADI cable. I thought MIDI OVER MADI meant I can manage the RME connector via the only MADI connection. But as soon as I disconnect the usb cable, the RME connector appears offline. Please help !

Midi over MADI "optical" needs port 3 (over BNC port 4).
Port 1+2 are for the two physical MIDI ports on the front/back of UFX III.

But even better news, you do not need RME connector anymore, RME released a few days ago a new TM FX Beta with Auxdevice support for the 12Mic.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=40049

Works like a charm.


https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/r61a5jtob0fuawazle2dr/2024-09-03TM-FX-1.97-Beta-Auxdevice-XTC.jpg?rlkey=h5z2ct75fmvkoqfiq7v8734f0&dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5v1gfbrb91s95p2hj2o13/2024-09-04-21_14_00-TM-FX-Auxdevice-Settings-XTC.jpg?rlkey=pqkh7v7wjm8glqn7ar7ipun4c&dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1bli83rumonuu9xexg5xh/2024-09-03TM-FX-1.97-Beta-Auxdevice-12Mic.jpg?rlkey=b1n7gdng2hpu0b88iz9wnd1tv&dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jcjhif5b3va8le57l2v88/2024-09-04-21_14_00-TM-FX-Auxdevice-Settings-12Mic-Port-1-4-5-8.jpg?rlkey=sbzkhe9yr43zj28m2g37r6wl2&dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8cakg4l1m3j2743cmnfem/2024-09-04-21_14_00-TM-FX-Auxdevice-Settings-12Mic-Port-9-12.jpg?rlkey=zmjyk96yagt81lwirhnawhxru&dl=1

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

Thanks Waedi and Ramses for your quick answers. Very efficient and reliable.
So I downloaded the 1.97 beta version of TM with the possibilitiy to include the 12 mic : awesome ! Matthias Carstens is really a master and very caring about his passionnate and professionnal customers.

So I tested the 12 mic and TM. It is to be noted that the gain changes onto the TM main computer screen are directly mirrored on the little 12mic screen but not the reverse : if you change the gain on the unit itself it does not come mirrored on TM.

The main issue though is that only the first 8 mic preamps work like a charm. The others are not recognized. Plus when I go to Options, then SETTINGS, it doesn't matter what I set in there, it is not taken into account, it keeps coming back the ADAT ports. But still the first eight MADI preamps work like a charm.
Capture d’écran 2024-09-05 à 00.57.48 (2).png.pdf

Well to sum up this night : I am very happy to have sent my first message and very happy to receive nice feedback and help, thanks again. I confess the 12 mic is little bit confusing for me this is my first MADI experience.

So new questions : do you have any idea how to tackle the "SETTINGS" situation ? Does it come from my setup ? And how to tackle the 9-12 extra 4 preamps within TM ?

Thousand thanks !

5 (edited by waedi 2024-09-05 01:03:40)

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

Totalmix menu Options / Settings Tab AuxDevice

You have to complete two settings for the Madi channels
first setting  Madi 1 - 8
1.device 12Mic 1 - 4
2.device 12Mic 5 - 8

second setting  Madi 9 - 16
1.device 12Mic 9 - 12
2.device none

For input and output port take port 3

Totalmix menu Options : Enable Midi control, yes enable it (Totalmix will be able to receive Gain position from the 12Mic via Midi)

Totalmix menu Options / Settings Tab Midi : input and output port select port 3 (Totalmix will receive Gain position from the 12Mic via Midi-port 3)

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

6 (edited by ramses 2024-09-05 05:11:11)

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

Gautier wrote:

So new questions : do you have any idea how to tackle the "SETTINGS" situation ?
Does it come from my setup ? And how to tackle the 9-12 extra 4 preamps within TM ?

Take another look at the screenshots, that's why I made them for you.

My channel distribution on the MADI BUS, related to the screenshots above...
ch 01..08 = Octamic XTC
ch 09..16 = 12Mic Port 1-8
ch 17..20 = 12Mic Port 9-12

Assumed now channels 1..12 for your 12Mic., see below.
It depends on how you have configured the routing on the 12Mic regarding its mic channels from/to MADI Bus (ch 1..64).

General info: since the device no longer corresponds to the 8-port scheme of the Octamic XTC, RME had to come up with something new. The idea here is to enter the 12Mic in groups of 4 ports to support Mic preamps with 4, 8 and 12 Ports.

12Mic Port 1-4:   MADI channel 1..4
12Mic Port 5-8:   MADI channel 5..8
12Mic Port 9-12: MADI channel 9..12

This is what you have to configure now under TM FX -> Options -> Settings (F3), Tab “Aux. Device” tab

Select the Channels (Bank, 8 ports) and enter the ports of your 12Mic under Device 1 and Device 2 in groups of 4.
Device ID, this is the MADI ID of your device, most likely 1 if you have 1 device.
Set MIDI In and Out to UFX III Midi Port 3 (this is MADI optical).

Channels "MADI 1-8":
   Device Type: 12Mic 1-4, Device ID: 1, MIDI In + Out: UFX III Midi Port 3
   Device Type: 12Mic 5-8, Device ID: 1, MIDI In + Out: UFX III Midi Port 3
Channels "MADI 9-16":
   Device Type: 12Mic 9-12, Device ID: 1, MIDI In + Out: UFX III Midi Port 3
   Device Type: None

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

Thank you guys for your answers : It works like a CHARM !
What I did not get is that every time I go to the settings page, it starts from scratch but takes into account what has been just previously done, right ? I was confused about the last 4 MADI INS indeed. Following your instructions step by step saved me a lot of time, Thanks again.

8 (edited by smguillem67 2024-11-22 21:25:49)

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

Hello, I have read / followed the information / steps in the forum about setting up 12Mic to UFX III Midi over MADI, but in the settings page under Aux Devices, under Device 1 I get this message: "No Response" ? and I cannot control the 12Mic in TotalMix.

I have verified that the 12Mic clock is MADI Optical, everything is solid green across the board. I've used MADI 33-40 for 12Mic 1-4 and 12Mic 5-8 and MADI 41-48 for 12Mic 9-12. I am using MIDI channel 3. I already have 2 X FerroFish Pulse 16 MX in the MADI loop so my first 32 channels are in use. I'm probably missing something obvious, just can't figure it out. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Running Mac Sequoia 15.1, TotalMix FX 1.97

UFX-III, 12Mic, FerroFish Pulse 16

9

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

Remove the 2 Pulse 16 from the loop to check if they block the communication.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

MC wrote:

Remove the 2 Pulse 16 from the loop to check if they block the communication.

Thank you for the suggestion. I have connected the 12Mic directly to the UFX-III (no pulse in the loop) and I'm having the same issue.

I get a "No Response" next to Device, under the Aux Devices screen.

When I first got my 12Mic about a month ago, I was using ADAT and did not realize at that time that controlling the 12Mic in TotalMix FX only works with MADI and does not work with ADAT. So I purchased the REM SFP module and now using MADI Optical.  In theory, this should work now, so not sure what is the problem.

UFX-III, 12Mic, FerroFish Pulse 16

11 (edited by ramses 2024-11-23 21:24:42)

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

Should be clear, remote control via TM FX (12Mic as "Auxdevice") is only possible via "MIDI over MADI"
because the 12Mic has no MIDI ports! How should it be controlled via MIDI otherwise than that?

If you are using MADI via optical, how is the cabling now between UFX III and 12Mic.
From UFX III to 12Mic and back from 12Mic to UFX III?

Are UFX III and 12MIC configured for MADI 64ch?

Did you configure in TM FX the proper MIDI port ?
TM FX, Settings (F3), TAB "Aux. Devices", MIDI IN and MIDI OUT -> "UFX III Midi Port 3"

More details see the screenshots in the Excel ... you can have a look at my documentation in the Excel here with a lot of screenshots about MADI settings. There you can see how this works between UFX III, 12Mic, Octamic XTC:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … tup-en-de/

Do not forget to configure
- routing on each of the MADI devices in the serial chain of devices.
- not only the routing for the device itself, but also to pass through the other channels to the next device.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

ramses wrote:

Should be clear, remote control via TM FX (12Mic as "Auxdevice") is only possible via "MIDI over MADI"
because the 12Mic has no MIDI ports! How should it be controlled via MIDI otherwise than that?

Yes, I understand that.

If you are using MADI via optical, how is the cabling now between UFX III and 12Mic.
From UFX III to 12Mic and back from 12Mic to UFX III?

The OUT SC port of the UFXIII goes into the IN LC port of the 12Mic, then the OUT LC port of the 12Mic goes to the IN SC port of the UFXIII.

Are UFX III and 12MIC configured for MADI 64ch?

I know the UFXIII is showing / set for 64channels, not sure how to set that in 12Mic.

Did you configure in TM FX the proper MIDI port ?
TM FX, Settings (F3), TAB "Aux. Devices", MIDI IN and MIDI OUT -> "UFX III Midi Port 3"

Yes, I used MIDI PORT 3, which is the one to use for Optical MADI. I don't know about "Mackie" support, but on or off did not make any difference.

More details see the screenshots in the Excel ... you can have a look at my documentation in the Excel here with a lot of screenshots about MADI settings. There you can see how this works between UFX III, 12Mic, Octamic XTC:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … tup-en-de/

Thanks I'll take a look.

Do not forget to configure
- routing on each of the MADI devices in the serial chain of devices.

Assuming in this testing scenario, I only have the 12Mic connected, so not sure what this means ? other than assigning the 12Mic channels in AUX DEVICES.
In the 12Mic (12mic.local web interface) I have routed / connected the 12 mic channels to MADI 33 to 45

- not only the routing for the device itself, but also to pass through the other channels to the next device.

I don't know what that means ? before I had the 12Mic I was using 25 analog Devices that were connected / routed through my 2 Pulse 16 MX. The analog to MADI channel is done in the Pulse 16 device. In Total Mix FX I just renamed the MADI channels to the name of the device ie: LA2A, Neve Pre etc.. don't recall anything about "passthrough"

UFX-III, 12Mic, FerroFish Pulse 16

13 (edited by ramses 2024-11-25 08:39:35)

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

TBH … I am not 100% sure whether this is the root cause, but it is required.
It means that you need to configure not only the MADI channels to/from the 12Mic (mic, phones).
The rest of the channels (which are not for the 12Mic itself) also needs to be routed through; otherwise they do not appear on the next devices in the chain.

96k MADI frame you can only configure on the 12Mic using the display, see manual, search for "96k".
Press big round encoder on the right.
Turn encoder to the left to reach "OUTP." and press encoder to enter this menu.
Turn encoder to the right (5x) to reach "MADI Optical" and press encoder to enter this menu.
Now press 1st/top button left to the menu to enter configuration.
Now you are in the menu to configure MADI optical for
- MADI mode 64ch
- MADI Frame 96k

Otherwise, sorry, no idea besides sending RME support an e-mail, copy/paste the URL of this thread.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

ramses wrote:

TBH … I am not 100% sure whether this is the root cause, but it is required.
It means that you need to configure not only the MADI channels to/from the 12Mic (mic, phones).
The rest of the channels (which are not for the 12Mic itself) also needs to be routed through; otherwise they do not appear on the next devices in the chain.

96k MADI frame you can only configure on the 12Mic using the display, see manual, search for "96k".
Press big round encoder on the right.
Turn encoder to the left to reach "OUTP." and press encoder to enter this menu.
Turn encoder to the right (5x) to reach "MADI Optical" and press encoder to enter this menu.
Now press 1st/top button left to the menu to enter configuration.
Now you are in the menu to configure MADI optical for
- MADI mode 64ch
- MADI Frame 96k

Otherwise, sorry, no idea besides sending RME support an e-mail, copy/paste the URL of this thread.

Thank you Ramses.
I followed the procedures and indeed it was set for 48Khz, so I changed it to 96Khz and the option just above was / is set for 64 channel. Unfortunately, that did not fix the issue. In AUX DEVICES, it still says "no response" next to Device. Now just want to confirm with you, when you say "the rest of the channels, which are NOT for the 12Mic itself, also need to be routed through" do you mean in the 12Mic web interface I have to manually route / assign all the other MADI channels ? Not sure I get it. In Total Mix FX I have MADI 1 to 32 configured as per my Pulse 16MX. In the Pulse 16MX the Analog I/O is routed to corresponding MADI I/O, so when I match that routing in TMFX, I get audio signal flowing through my analog devices. In the 12Mic, I have routed / assigned the 12 mic preamps to MADI 33 to 45 using the web interface, ie: click and drag the preamp to the MADI channel etc. Not sure what else I need to do in the 12Mic web interface ?

UFX-III, 12Mic, FerroFish Pulse 16

15 (edited by ramses 2024-11-27 18:49:23)

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

1. Route analog channels to the MADI channels ....
As XTC uses 1..8 here 9...20

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6w69q4ko4f001rzsa0etr/2024-11-17-MADI-Routing-on-12Mic-1-of-2.jpg?rlkey=wlfirx5cqj62072espidjooum&st=iyotjntp&dl=1

The other "non 12Mic" channels pass through ...
- XTC (1-8)
- unused (21-64)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7tcr8c672sjfecg4qj5tc/2024-11-17-MADI-Routing-on-12Mic-2-of-2.jpg?rlkey=rkmru0nu83oprnjszt6uufaec&st=yh47bf7i&dl=1

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, M-1620 Pro D, RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

ramses wrote:

1. Route analog channels to the MADI channels ....
As XTC uses 1..8 here 9...20

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6w69q4ko4f001rzsa0etr/2024-11-17-MADI-Routing-on-12Mic-1-of-2.jpg?rlkey=wlfirx5cqj62072espidjooum&st=iyotjntp&dl=1

The other "non 12Mic" channels pass through ...
- XTC (1-8)
- unused (21-64)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7tcr8c672sjfecg4qj5tc/2024-11-17-MADI-Routing-on-12Mic-2-of-2.jpg?rlkey=rkmru0nu83oprnjszt6uufaec&st=yh47bf7i&dl=1

Ok Thank you very much, I will try that !!

UFX-III, 12Mic, FerroFish Pulse 16

17

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

smguillem67 wrote:
ramses wrote:

1. Route analog channels to the MADI channels ....
As XTC uses 1..8 here 9...20

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6w69q4ko4f001rzsa0etr/2024-11-17-MADI-Routing-on-12Mic-1-of-2.jpg?rlkey=wlfirx5cqj62072espidjooum&st=iyotjntp&dl=1

The other "non 12Mic" channels pass through ...
- XTC (1-8)
- unused (21-64)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7tcr8c672sjfecg4qj5tc/2024-11-17-MADI-Routing-on-12Mic-2-of-2.jpg?rlkey=rkmru0nu83oprnjszt6uufaec&st=yh47bf7i&dl=1

Ok Thank you very much, I will try that !!

I wanted to chime in and say I have the exact same issue.
I have my 12Mic Connected to the RME UFXIII with the MADI SFP Module and I get "No Response" in the AUX inputs no matter what I do.

18

Re: 12 Mic Midi over MADI

ramses wrote:

1. Route analog channels to the MADI channels ....
As XTC uses 1..8 here 9...20

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6w69q4ko4f001rzsa0etr/2024-11-17-MADI-Routing-on-12Mic-1-of-2.jpg?rlkey=wlfirx5cqj62072espidjooum&st=iyotjntp&dl=1

The other "non 12Mic" channels pass through ...
- XTC (1-8)
- unused (21-64)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7tcr8c672sjfecg4qj5tc/2024-11-17-MADI-Routing-on-12Mic-2-of-2.jpg?rlkey=rkmru0nu83oprnjszt6uufaec&st=yh47bf7i&dl=1

I did connect the non 12Mic channels too- no change unfortunately.