51 (edited by ramses 2019-09-20 12:21:12)

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

Especially as the two Major players (Microsoft and Apple) cause nothing but issues und Windows 7 support is about to be ceased. Besides Win10 privacy issues which is also RPITA.

As I mentioned Steinberg asked users what major points they want to have implemented and Linux support is under the top ten if I remember right.

With Linux you get also Real Time support into the standard kernel soon, should be very beneficial for audio.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

52

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

+1 for linux support...

please RME can you make something in the same way nvidia have closed source drivers/software for linux.

For me that would be Ubuntu and HDSPe AIO

Thanks

53 (edited by loopbreaker 2019-11-08 16:33:52)

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

Linux Support for RME Hardware would be really great!

I use Windows 7 for DAW inkl. Plugins e.t.c., because it's realtime performance with 32Samples is clear better than from win10 1903.
For everything else (entertainment, office, ...) i use Linux. (what M$ did with win10 the last years is irresponsible.
If I do not need to use it, I do not use it).
And for small Audio Tasks (catching ideas, record/cut Audio e.t.c.) Bitwig... and u-He Plugins... do their Job in Linux just like that.
But i can't use my hardware-synths e.t.c. with the comfort i used from TotalMixFX e.t.c. with Linux.
I use the USB of my ADI2pro for Linux,
but would be great, if i could install my HDSPe MADI FX, and use it with TotalMixFX.

Best Regards

HDSPe MADI FX, ADI2-PRO, ADI2, HDSPe Multiface 2
Cubase 10, Bitwig 3; win10, Ubuntu Studio LTS

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

+1 for linux support. In my circles Linux has become even more popular than Windows and OSX, especially now as Microsoft has adopted some of the same disrispectful strategies as Apple.

Don't believe me - make a poll - or a kickstarter campaing! See how many will pledge. I bet you'll be surprised.

Furthermore - I hereby promise to purchase an UCX/UFX interface if there's support for Linux. You can hold me up on this, and please do. The lack of Linux compatibility has been the only thing holding me back. I also hate the fact I can't even use my Babyface pro fully. (CC mode just don't cut it)

55 (edited by ramses 2020-02-25 09:19:16)

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

Rough calculation for such a campaign.

I guess for this you will need around 4 ppl to work on
- design
- driver programming
- application programming
- testing and later support
- interfacing with Linux project, keeping track of kernel design changes, sound infrastructure
- Evaluation which of the Linux major packaging standards to support:
    RPM - Redhat, Fedora, CentOS, SUSE
    DEB - Debian, Ubuntu,
    Pacman - Arch
    or compressed tar archive for manual extraction and installation by either script or instructions in a README
- Which sound system to support on normal OS level, I know of these backends:
  JACK, ALSA, PulseAudio, GStreamer,   OSS (legacy).
- 2nd/3rd level troubleshooting of audio issues in the Linux world

2-3y time before all the rough edges are out. Makes around €250k per year fix costs salary alone.
And then you need to hope that DAW and VST/VSTi products will do the same investment in their area.

And this is not Star Citizen, people at the end expect a product to work with and you need DAW and 3rd party product support (VST, VSTi, HW controllers).

So to survive the first 3y you need around 750k and you do not know whether this will be really a success.
This requires around 30.000 people to fund €25 on average.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

Ramses, the scenario you suggest is just one of many.

It most certainly didn't take 750k to provide linux driver for hammerfall cards.

And you can still get a big portion of the sales boost without an "official" linux support - or rather leave it on the community.

57 (edited by ramses 2020-02-25 21:47:32)

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

> It most certainly didn't take 750k to provide linux driver for hammerfall cards.

I thought we talk about Linux support in general terms. Then we need to talk about drivers for all cards, how to intgrate into Linux (also for non ASIO aware applications) and a rewrite of all applications:
- TotalMix FX
- TotalMix FX Remote
- Digicheck
- ..

And its only my personal estimation. Feel free to convince RME, I have nothing against it.

But to be able to switch to Linux fully I need besides HW support also support for Cubase and VST/VSTi,
otherwise it makes no sense to me to switch.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

Yes, you're probably right about totalmix being as big of an issue as the drivers. However, if totalmix runs on both OSX and windows, it may already be written on a multi-platform architecture. Furthermore, OSX is based on unix, so these worlds are not completely apart. Digicheck is useful, but not a requirement per se.

If VST's weren't well supported on linux, that would totally been a deal breaker for me too. Luckily the apps and tools I've used support both 32 and 64 bit, which is nice.

I used to work on Cubase too, but then moved over to Reaper, which runs natively on Linux, as well as on Windows and Mac. Another very popular one is Bitwig, which has nearly identical workflow to Ableton Live - and also runs natively on Linux, Windows and Mac.

I completely respect that everyone have different demands and criteria - linux is not the ideal choise for everyone. For my workflow, linux works much better - and this seems to be true for countless of other people, and the number seems to be growing. It would be so cool if RME would be there to support the movement.

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

I may be a very simple person and the language barrier may also be an obstacle. But I still haven't got any answer as to why it's impossible to make closed device drivers for RME devices on the manufacturer's side for Linux? That's what I'm here recently investigated, no licensing problem, it should not be.

The question is exactly what the manufacturer wants. At the same time, I might be able to say when I read an ad about new RME devices and their goodness and if I would buy. That I don't buy because you don't want to support the Linux world. Although I mainly use Windows I will continue to invest in manufacturers that fully support it. I pay and I demand. If you just don’t want to do what your customers want, then your customer shouldn’t buy. There are options in the world. The situation is starting to be that the Linux side is now growing fast. Whether RME wants to be upstream supporting or downstream, supporting Linux. At some point it is mandatory.

On the other hand, if there is no time to even start, then maybe in the future I will turn to those who have that time. And it’s hardly up to the know-how.

And of course it pays when you take the third scheme of support. I guess no one has asked for them for free?

At some point I will buy new hardware and if the case has not developed in any direction then I will simply change the brand.

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

Linux is very much like a moving target. Countless different distros with different kernel versions (some even making it hard to install proprietary drivers) and anyone trying to offer support will need to throw an unpredictable amount of manpower at it. That combined with a still small market... Regarding resources, RME is neither AMD, nor NVIDIA, I think.

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

One option would be to choose an audio distribution which is supported. For example, avlinux. It is Debian based and stable. It also has a user base. Or create a Linux distribution managed jointly by the manufacturers. In much the same way that Midi used to be created https://linuxaudio.org/

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

sjzstudio wrote:

One option would be to choose an audio distribution which is supported. For example, avlinux. It is Debian based and stable. It also has a user base. Or create a Linux distribution managed jointly by the manufacturers. In much the same way that Midi used to be created https://linuxaudio.org/

Not a good idea as this doesn't make the situation any better.

It adds only to the fragmentation of the already fragmented Linux market and is not a real satisfactory solution for customers.

Customers put already a lot of time and efforts into their running Distribution and local installation and have no real interest to switch from their beloved Linux to another distribution.

Even worse, if this is being taken as a concept, then you will soon have dedicated Linux version for different commercial software. Surely not a good goal to go for ...

Linus should raise his voice and bring people together to put together a unified standard Linux distribution with one package management etc. But I think that nobody wants to pick up that ball.

So it will most likely stay as it is and this means stagnation and no better solutions..

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

63 (edited by sjzstudio 2020-04-23 15:49:31)

Re: Why is it so hard to accept linux?

Of course, one universal line distribution would be the ideal situation. But still I tested Avlinux. Soudcraft's Ui24r worked in it plug and play. Probably also Fireface 802. But I missed the totalmix fx. I wonder if it would sometimes be possible to come up with a similar solution as the ipad works with these RMEs. That is, class compliant drivers and a totalmix-style control interface. If correct. I sensed the feeling of this chain, such is not coming during my lifetime.

However, this was accomplished with Avlinux tools directly from the package.

https://youtu.be/r3QdVA7ltzQ